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| If you are having a tough day and just want to at least see some fish follow, what is your lure of choice. Surely something you can cover a lot of water with? I would say a walk the dog bait moved along quickly gets my vote. Thanks for any help. |
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Posts: 425
Location: Elkhart, IN | Depends on what part of the water column I think they're in. Some favorites of mine are Shallow Raider for mid-depth, Sinking Rapala and jointed Depthraider for deeper fish. Pacemakers, Hoosier Handmade Shad topwater and Ghosttails are my favorite search baits for shallow fish. |
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Posts: 1636
| When I at least want to see something...
Shallow water - Mepps Maribou Blk/Chart. or Blk/Silver
Deep water - Bulldawg or again Mepps Maribou (no matter how deep it is) |
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Posts: 20212
Location: oswego, il | TR twitcher and rip the crap out of it. Rip it like you would rip your kid from micheal jackson's lap! |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | ToddM - 8/28/2006 8:52 PM
TR twitcher and rip the crap out of it. Rip it like you would rip your kid from micheal jackson's lap!
Can't get much more descriptive than that! Thanks Todd!
S> |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Undertaker and Wabull. Make the bait dance, pop it up to the top, walk it back and forth, and at the boat make it slide down about 5' or so. I move fish doing that when nothing else seems to be working. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Shallow Search Baits:
Pacemaker, Shallow Mag Dawg, Turmoil, Beer Belly, Llungen Tails, XX, Double Cow Girls,
Deep Water Search Baits:
Mag Dawgs, Mag Dawgs, Mag Dawgs
Edited by MikeHulbert 8/29/2006 8:28 AM
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| Curious G
I think you hit the nail on the head. There is just something about that back and forth "walk the dog" motion that makes muskies show themselves off.
A 6" Phantom glider is my # 1 lure of choice when I am pre-fishing a tournament.
NOTHING else is better than that ....
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Isn't the whole point of a "search bait" simply to cover a lot of water quickly and efficiently? Moreso than to just get a fish to show itself?
I guess I look at the concept of "searching" for fish is to find ACTIVE fish willing to engage an "easy" lure. Slowing down and finessing a follow from an otherwise IN-ACTIVE fish just doesn't seem like a "search" technique for me.
My favorite search baits are Long Tale Spinnerbaits and Mepps Marabou bucktails. If these baits "locate" a fish for me... then I can consider going back on them with something "erratic" or less efficient at covering water in an effort to convert a looker into an eater.
Are you guys going to Gliders working them real fast.... just to get fish to show themselves???? If so.... what do you go back on those fish with... in an effort to get them to eat?
jlong |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | What J said.
If I am searching for fish I am generally covering water quite quickly. Mepps Marabous maybe, Mepps Musky Killer for sure, spinnerbaits when the weeds dictate. |
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Posts: 2024
| Shallow: Grim Reaper spinnerbait or a Shallow Invader worked like CRAZY
Deep: Shallow Invader again but maybe tone down the retrieve, Slammer Deep Diver, Mag Bulldawg
J,
I worked gliders a few times on LOTW just to try and get fish to show themselves, especially on tough days. Erraticly worked cranks (Shallow Invaders... mmm mmm, love em) and bucktails got fish either in the boat or to hit.
Edited by esox50 8/29/2006 8:26 AM
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| you can cover alot of water with a jackpot worked fast...as well as a stupid glider worked fast...something about side to side fish like to show themselves on ...at least for me....fast moving bucktails and spinnerbaits work too...but if I'm simply looking to see a fish as the original post dictated I go with something side to side...Or maybe a bulldawg....
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | aren't those all secrets? LMAO |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | I am not sure but I think there is a lot of confusion between "search" baits, and baits that will get inactive fish to show. I gave my list of "search" baits. These are the baits I will throw when I expect muskies to be active and I am trying to search them out.
If you are looking for inactive fish, then I slow things down and try to tantalize them. Some of my best coldfront baits are Shallow Bulldawgs and the X Glide by H20. After using Beaver's Perkette for a little bit that bait is also climbing the list rapidly. |
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Posts: 5874
| I'm with JLo on this one. Searching to me is lots of casts, and quick retrieves, covering lots of water, looking for that active fish. Hopefully it hits, but if not, at least shows itself, so I can throw back, or come back later.
Bucktails(I Like BooTails and Ghost Tails), and Spinnerbaits( I Like Violent Strikes and Rad Dogs) are easy to work fast for long periods.
I wouldn't consider a magnum Bulldawg, a Wabull, or an Undertaker a search bait. Can't work the fast enough to cover enough water, and wouldn't want to work them that fast, anyway. Same with Suicks, Weagles, Top Raiders, Deep diving Cranks. Maybe a Globe style TW can be worked faster to cover lots of water.
Maybe I'm just getting too old, but it's way too much work to toss those big heavy baits, and work the heck out of them, all day long, when you're just looking for fish to show themselves. I like those baits when I have a specific area I intend to pick apart. |
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Posts: 2378
| Shep, you can easily cover enough water with a Mag Dawg to consider it a search bait. It ain't easy though.
I like the bucktails (Double X, Llungen Inline, Mepps), the Long Shot (wow you can smoke that thing), Dawgs, and the Pacemaker for searching. |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'll be more specific:
The question was what I personally do if I'm having a tough day and am not seeing fish. To me that means the bucktails, spinnerbaits, and topwaters so far are not moving fish for me. If I am on Pelican, the Goon, George, Crescent, or other waters I know pretty well, I am CERTAIN those lures are contacting muskies, but I'm not getting the reaction I am hoping for, or even a stupid follow.
The Wabull really shines under those conditions for me. I don't work it slow, I work it actually what would be considered very fast for a glider. I can cover a considerable amount of water quickly, because I can take longer casts due to the weight of the lure. I do pretty well on that lure when things are tough, and even better when things are not.
If I locate a good fish that doesn't try to take the Wabull, to answer Mr. Long's question, I will leave her, come back when I think she's going to be more active, and try to get her to eat a bucktail, Top Raider, Weagle, etc.
On the other hand if things are tough, I might just toss a Creature all day. If I move a fish on a Creature, most times it's in the net. |
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Posts: 5874
| Baldy,
But I like "easy"! hehehe I'm not a big dawg fan, probably a confidence thing. I just don't throw them enough.
For that matter, I don't throw anything as much as I probably should this year! |
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Posts: 128
Location: ontario canada - Well Anderson Indiana now | On days where I'm not seeing anything I have found some success using a 6" reef hawg or undertaker. Last year we had an amazing day using Bucher's Dancin' Raiders after casting everything else for about 8 hours and not seeing a thing. My biggest problem is overthinking on tough days, I think the best thing to do is pick a bait that you are confident with and is easy to work and simply keep it wet. When things get really tough you can think of all the crud going on around the world and just feel blessed that you're on the lake at all, that's what I do anyways. |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Well... I guess I got confused between the title of the post being "Search Baits"... which in my opinion suggests the idea of "covering lots of water looking for active fish" rather than "slowing down and finessing a response from less aggressive fish".
Working a lure in an erratic nature is still a slow process for me.... especially since it usually incorporates some lengthy pauses. Sure... the lure itself may move quickly... but the time element from start to finish of single cast is much longer than with what I consider to be an efficient search bait (straight retrieve stuff with a moderate to fast retrieve speed).
Searching to me implies you are basically trying to identify fish LOCATION.... and ideally a fish that is not picky about your presentation.
Finessing to me implies you know their location but are trying to elicit a response from the fish.... via a funky presentation that in many cases is not a very efficient lure for covering water. Any lure with a pause is not very efficient.... in my opionion...... for searching, but is awesome for finessing. |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There is no 'pause' in the described method I use for the Wabull and Undertaker. |
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Posts: 3864
| I'll just throw this out there....
Perhaps, as time passes and we all become more educated about this stuff, we'll decide that "search baits" is a misconception from the beginning. Maybe throwing fast baits to simply locate fish is a waste of time. If you know the structure and the conditions, you should simply throw and work the bait that you feel is best for that spot at that time. If that bait/presentation doesn't move fish as you work the spots on spots, start over on those spots and try another presentation.
A point to support my point, based on many hours of careful observation...., as an intro, I'm talking about fishing in a very small, very difficult to access, chock full of fish, UP lake. Ultra clear. That's where I observed this...
First, I could very easily see many fish in shallower water, tons of bass, some of which were big, and some muskies, almost all in the upper 30"s. All holding among the many rocks and tons of timber. (Yes, Lake X, for those of you who I took there.) These fish I could see in the shallower water, mostly in the early morn with flat water. But I could see them very well. Check this out......
Second, if the bass didn't chase the bait then neither would the muskies. Every time, without exception. As fish didn't move, I would downsize to reach, eventually, Mepps Muskie Killers. If the all pink didn't work, then it was black and black. Now, and this is a critical observation: somedays the fish would only chase the Killers with the yellow spots, and some days the fish would only chase the Killers with the green spots. Always black and black (hair/spoon), no other color combo, including natural colors (natural/silver), worked. Green spots on the black blade, or yellow spots. When it worked, I caught thirty bass and one or two muskies. But I hardly moved a fish until I found that correct combo of size, speed and color. The bass told me what was working.
So, I suspect, that you guys who cover tons of water throwing fast baits are often just wasting your time. Better to hit the spots on spots (based on structure and other environmental conditions) with a variety of presentations until you determine what's moving fish.
Just a thought.
Edited by Ranger 8/29/2006 11:21 PM
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Ranger, that is exactly what I was talking about.  |
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Posts: 3864
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I'm such a killer muskie dude.
Edited by Ranger 8/30/2006 1:26 AM
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Ranger... your approach is what Musky Hunter calls a PROGRESSION. Good concept. The "game" per say is to catch fish with the most efficient... meaning FAST.... method to increase your total opportunity.
If you start with a finesse bait and in one hour caught 1 fish..... perhaps you could have caught 3 fish using a "search bait". The MH concept thus suggests it is always best to start fast and progress towards a slow presentation.
The "gray" area for me is when we discuss efficiency. Some lures are efficient at "raking the water" but don't have a lot of strike triggering character... other than speed itself. Some lures are less efficient at "raking the water" but are far more efficient at eliciting a response from the fish... especially neutral or negative fish... covering the entire spectrum of the musky population in that lake.
So... the game then becomes.... do you want to EFFICIENTLY "rake the water" looking for the few HOT fish willing to play today.... or do you invest more time on fewer high percentage spots and use a presentation that potentially will elicit a response from almost ANY fish, regardless of its "mood".
I guess lately I have been choosing to look for the few "easy" HOT fish and if that is becoming a futile effort I'll "progress" towards more of a finesse type offering. Gliders are a finesse lure for me.... since I gotta give 'em a pause.
Worrall or others.... can you please explain what you feel the benefit/advantage "fast hopping" a glider has vs. what I consider to be more traditional "search baits" such as bucktails and tail rotator topwaters? Are gliders truly a viable option for a Run&Gun approach... especially considering hooking percentage???
jlong |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I don't think there is an advantage using a fast retrieved glider over a bucktail or staight retrieve topwater as a search bait looking for active fish. I use the Wabull as a targeted, focused presentation under several different conditions, but the scenario we're looking at here is what lure to use whan the traditional search lures are not getting it done. This type of presentation elicits more follows and confirms fish locations and sizes for me when I'm not seeing them on other lures, and sometimes I get the only hit all day popping a glider along. I have no idea why. I'm guessing it's the big lure moving fast but very erratically and making a heck of a disturbance, but it may be something else entirely.
Some days I will throw the Wabull ALL day, working my fanny off ( working it the way I do is pretty tiring on the wrists and arms) while others in the boat are throwing other lures; and the vast majority of the muskies following are on the glider. AM I placing my casts better and seeing more because of that? No, I don't think so.
There ARE conditions where I want the Wabull on ACTIVE fish too, but that's a different story. It's then the Perkette shines as well.
I've found the Wabull hooking percentages to be exceptional: when a good fish eats a Wabull, I usually get her in the Frabill. |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Thanks Steve. I love the Wabull too... but rarely kick it up a notch as you describe. Just gotta give it a few good pauses. Its a personal issue (heh heh). I'll have to experiment with your suggestions. Thanks. |
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Posts: 723
| Man, what a mess! yes, gliders are good at pulling fish out of areas, but, usually, if that fish isnt focused on eating, its a swing and a miss, usually a curse word to follow. I havent ever seen bucktails move fish on those days when fish just arent responding to anything, trying to cover water fast on high pressure bluebird day isnt what I consider efficient unless youre trying to see how many times you can wash the bait.
I guess there is a no win situation here, if you want to see atleast a follow that may just make your time worth it out there, go for something that is erratic, glider, DDD for sure, or something that is in their face like a J-mac jig in the thickest slop you can find. You'll route some fish out if you slow down and work good areas that you know hold fish. And chances are, you may get those fish to hit. curiosity killed the cat.
but if you want to fish fast and cover lots of water hoping for a hot fish, go with tailspinning topwater or cranking a minnowbait in fast with some pauses, but, expect your results to be less on those really tough days.
You really have to weigh your options of moving fast with good hookers  or moving slow with bad hookers. If action is what you want, you need to spend some time trying to trigger instead of covering water. Just my 2 cents, I know some getter done no matter what, but if you dont know, go slow. |
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Posts: 32880
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I have what should be an obvious question:
The Weagle is known to have a very positive hook up percentage.
It is exactly the same dimensions as a Wabull.
The Wabull should be much easier for a muskie to target, even when popping it along.
So why would the Wabull have a poor hook up percentage? I have found it to be excellent. |
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Posts: 723
| Steve:
not saying the wabull is poor hooking, just most gliders are, especially smaller more erratic ones, the problem I have with gliders is that when you slow them down, giving them pauses, and then move the bait, which is when the fish shows up and misses or only gets one hook in them and it ends up a spoiled fish. A wabull is a bigger bait, girth wise thus making it an easier target. you may be fishing a better strain of fish than I I like gliders, just find its like a 1 in 4 goes in the frabill.
I fished sabaskong bay recently, and lost 15 fish in 3 days before I finally put one in the net, and that wasnt until I switched to some topwater and bucktails\spinnerbaits. so, yes, I have a back outlook on the glider, so do most folks. but they do show you fish. so, use them, which is what I said previously, cause they will show you fish, which is the point of this thread.
Edited by dogboy 8/30/2006 9:35 AM
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