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| Anyone use big baits? Curious if anyone has used large baits (14 inch plus) for muskie fishing and what type of luck you have had and with which baits.
Examples
Musky Snax
http://www.muskysnax.com/home.html
Wishmaster
http://www.wishmasterbigbaits.com
Grunts
http://www.gruntmuskielures.com
Danczyk
http://www.danczyk-lures.com/BigTrollingLures.html
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | I build a very cool 12,15 and 21 inch deepdiver. The TALONZ DEEPTHREAT. See them at our website. Kingfisher |
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| Most of those big lures seem expensive for just a few more inches. Anyone below $50? Those $300 Wishmasters look nice though! If they come with a 50inch muskie I will take one!! |
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Posts: 1335
Location: Chicago, Beverly | Lot of work behind these baits.. Muskiefool makes two big ones, a SB Derby Diver and a Mayeye that just into the wood working he may have say 40 hours into(not sure if Fool's 40 is with or without paint)?? then you get into painting... it adds up quick on big baits... then say he lets it go for $100, thats $2.50 an hour he made not counting material and tools... so when its broke down like that it makes those $200+ baits seem not quite as bad with their prices.. also makes me think a lot of baitmakers are not in it for the money also.... |
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| It's about 40hrs to do the entire bait(Way To Picky), but I have found a few ways to save some time without sacrificing any quality, my original intent was to make them for under a yard note but there is no way when just material for big baits is around 50, are they worth the price well that's up to the individual, the most affordable Hand made Big Baits Ive seen have been Grunts and WoodieB8's Thumper, That bait is incredible, Outlaw makes a heck of a bait, the thing Pounds like a pile driver, also No Box makes a very good bait for a decent price with paint that will blow your mind, he is a artist first lure maker second, definite must see baits that are producing fish, http://www.noboxlures.com/ ,Wishmasters, WoodieB8's,and No Box are all fish producing big baits, mine will be getting allot of water time this fall and hopefully putting a few monsters in hand with a Lil help from my friends, if you want to know specifics about other big baits go to http://muskytooth.com and PM Dadson he has more big baits than anyone on the planet, if you would like WoodieB8's conact PM me.
Good Luck
Fool
Edited by Muskiefool 8/4/2006 3:22 PM
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| 40hrs! Yikes! I assume these are made in the winter unless you guys don't fish much  I doubt that is the case. Good job on making these big baits. I woudl never have the skill or paicentscccsest to do this. I can however make money another way and buy them from you guys! Thanks
brent |
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| brent if we calculated man hours you would be amazed. then theres the material and all the other good stuff. we at woodie baits do custom work 12 inchers up to a 22. our standard lines are in the 6-9 inch range. after that plateau all custom makers as above pour man hours into a quality product built for specific applications. hence the cost. |
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| I love the big custom lures...be it cranks or glide baits. I've had good luck with them and as far as I'm concerned worth every penny. |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | 40 HRS????? PER LURE???. Sounds like you need a machine or two. It takes me about 40 hours to make 12 --- 12 inch Deepthreats. I make them in racks of 6 . The bodies are made on a shaper which is both fast and acurate. The wood is not expensive its Cedar not gold. The wire for the wire thru is .078 stainless. I bought 50 lbs. I can make about 500 lures with that much wire. It cost me 59 bucks. the lips are cut by water CAD. I pay about 2.00 per lip for 1/4" lexan. Materials into a 12" Deepthreat about 5 dollars. Time about 55 dollars each. I sell them for 60.00 each. Three coats of envirotec. 54 inch georgian bay fish came on one of my baits. 52" michigan fish on one of my baits. Every one of my 2006 12 and 15 inch lures ran true and thumped like hell. I will be running a dozen of them this fall on some deep water in northerm Michigan as soon as the Whitefish stage for the spawn. If a guy wants to make money at lure making he needs to find ways to streamline his processes. Here are some ways to cut time and improve your quality and consistancy. #1- do not make your own diving lips especilly big ones. It cost me 50 bucks to have a guy program his water jet cutter to cut all my big lips. He now cuts them for 59 cents each and is acurate to .002 inch. I but quarter sheets of lexan and drop it off once or twice per year. I get the lips with backing paper still attached total about 2 dollars per lip. #2 Make your first pattern by hand then learn how to make a Jig. Cut your blanks so fast it would make your head spin. I can cut 500 blanks in two days. Also in the same token do your work in steps. While my guy is making my lips I am cutting my blanks for the coming year. Normally 200 blanks. I do this in one day. With my blanks cut I take 12 to the shaper table and rout the edges and true with a belt sander. Hand sand for the finishing touches. Drill for wire thru. Paint on sanding sealer let dry and paint white base coats. The trick to speed is doing a lot of baits at one time. When I was doing one lure at a time it was dog slow and very taxing . I have also learned the very important lesson of dedicating a machine for one job and one job only. I have one saw for Just lip slots. It is never changed so it never goes out of whack. I have a shaper table for my Little Claws,another for my Slashers and a third for My big baits. All are locked down and do one job. Set ups are what kill your time or waste it I should say. If any of you have ever seen the inside of John Mulliets shop in Fair Haven Michigan you will know what Im talking about. He makes over 3,000 Lokes per year and he is in his late 70's . I learned a lot from his work. Make Jigs, patterns and router bits. Thats how he does it. I have made some of my own bits to get certain curves and belly contours. All these things will get you into that 10 to 20 baits per week range when talking big lures. In the last two weeks I Made 72 Slashers,24 Little Claws and two 12 inch Daredevils. All completed and shipped. The slashers go for 20 bucks a pop and the Claws go for 15. The spoons went for 64 dollars. If I could post a picture I would show you guys the biggest spoons in the Pike world today. Any way what Im saying is not only will you improve your quality and be more consistant with your lures you will start making money AND be able to offer them at prices guys will pay . Mine are 60.00 per 12inch 75.00 per 15inch and 125.00 per 21inch. Thats half the price of a Wishmaster and they look just as sweeet!!!. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Im going to try posting some pics.
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 big 12inch.JPG (16KB - 236 downloads)
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | That was an 8 ounce 12inch spoon. Here is a 12 inch lake trout pattern on a spoon/
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12inchlaker.JPG (21KB - 312 downloads)
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Here several of my personal 12" Deepthreats. These are workin girls you guys they go deep and like it  . Kingfisher
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laker.JPG (15KB - 246 downloads)
pike.JPG (16KB - 251 downloads)
Pikeclose.JPG (20KB - 303 downloads)
workin girls.JPG (23KB - 308 downloads)
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | I suck at taking pictures. They look far better in real life. The cool thing is they are all identicle to a point. All hand made lures will have a little of thier own personality and mine are no exception to this rule. The common factors are Lip angle,body shape and size,thickness and weight. The variables are colors, belly weight, and number of clear coats. You can see a lot of my stuff at www.protacklemuskyshop.com or at my website. Most of my stuff is running in Canada right now on georgian Bay, the Larry and the Ottawa. We are planning on using them this fall in the St Clair and Detroit rivers. Also maybe a trip to Buffalo Harbour. My hats off to all the other big bait makers. We build adventures. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 1185
Location: Iowa | I used to have a 19" Kingfisher Talonz in a Salmon color...man did that thing dredge the depths...I ended up selling it because it was a little too much for me...great quality baits though...I know someone that has a custom 21" Talonz in a lake trout pattern that is freaking incredible...here are some pics from the guys site...the 21" is on top...the 19" I bought from him is in the middle and 12" is on the bottom...
Big Perc
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Talonz.jpg (45KB - 702 downloads)
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | You have the process down Kingfisher, I have to hand it to you. The thing I have never been able to do quickly is to get the baits shaped to where I want them. I hate router lines and spend a bunch of time trying to eliminate them. I think if a guy has just the right router bit it helps considerably but the roundover bits I have are either too small or too big to eliminate the router lines on the sides of the bait and so I end up spending a fair amount of time getting rid of them. I can cut them quickly, router them, but then they always need enough sanding to to where it takes me a number of hours to get things "just right".
Your deep running cranks are awesome!!
jed v. |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | For Big Perk, that 19 Inch you refer to was actully a 15" early model 19" with the lip. I have streamlined the new 15 inch models body to make it more slippery. Not as tall as the early models. That color is called SMOKED FISH . That is HR Johnny Dadsons 21 inch Lake trout 27 inches with the LIP. The lips are 3/8th Lexan and cost me about 10 dollars each. I have to make my own Bits or modify factory bits. I have a place that can grind carbide(diamond wheel) . These big shaper bits are very friggin dangerous. You could loose several fingers in a thousandths of a second. At 20,000 rpm there is no time to react. Great care should be taken when working with these machines. Personally I dont think its nessasary to fish a lure bigger than 12" . Captain Rich Clark gets it done with 10 inch lures all the time. Look him up with a search Rich Clark Muskie charters. Hes on the ten thousand Island area of the Larry. Many fish over 40 lbs. I pull my 12's and sometimes my 15's but catch more fish on 10 and 12 inch lures. Im working on a 10 inch Slasher and a 10 inch Deepthreat. It was HR JOHNNY that got me making the 21 incher. He likes the huge lures and catches fish on them. Remember the 65 lb Olsen Fish from Georgian Bay. It was caught on a stinkin little rapala 5 inches. I thinks its more important to place a lure in the right place than to drag three pounds of wood all over creation waiting for something to eat it. But hey, I build adventures and pulling a 21 inch deepthreat is an adventure all by itself . Kingfisher |
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I've had this one up to about 6 mph.
It'll go deeeeeeeep. |
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| gotta agree with kingfisher. size is always not everything . in life and baits.. i have a few well known ottawa river guides that run the woodie thumper 9 inch. with many fish in the 40lb class i cant argue. i have seen many 50 inch fish caught on our smaller 6 1/4 incher here on st clair. so in closing its up to the big girls. my personal favorites are under 10 inches. |
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| Hats off to you King, from what I hear you make a hell of a bait, yep up to forty hrs but I'm working on getting a duplicator to cut that time down dramatically, till then it's one blank at a time, it took many hours and much criticism to get this one bait to where it performs like it does, as you know finding a 20+" bait that can run out to the max speed (10MPH+)at depths of 10-20-30' without blowing out or jumping around ain't easy with a new original design, I would love to see your operation and take a note or two but it seems that very few bait makers are as open minded and generous with info as are WoodieB8's,Riverman,NoBox,yourself and I are, and are truly willing to help, some guys just turn their back on you when they find out you make baits or produce something they don't understand, or they just become condescending, it is true that 6-9" baits produce the bulk of fish and that 14" is probably the most productive size of the big baits, for very good reason most people don't pull 15+" baits yet, but times are changing, and if you can make a 20+ bait pull like a 14 then more will start to use them and more fish will be caught on monster baits.
Edited by Muskiefool 8/14/2006 12:00 AM
(Goby angle Prof web 1.jpg)
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Goby angle Prof web 1.jpg (76KB - 469 downloads)
ZAFTIG 1 1st.jpg (83KB - 231 downloads)
ZAFTIG2 1st.jpg (65KB - 236 downloads)
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | Wow, definate artistry there. That black and white with the bleeding eyes would take me 40 hours just to paint it. Very cool design and a definate original. I can see where the hours would go into building it. I made a desision in January of this year to make lures for a living and have had to curb my desire to create for a While. With my Little Claw and my 12,15 and 21" Deepthreats all working well I turned my attention to Lake St. Clair. I wanted to come up with a lure for 20 bucks that would become one of the top producers on the lake. We are watching the The Talonz Slasher do just that. I started with a body wider than it was tall like a Believer. This makes the lure want to sit upright even without hooks. I didnt want to to get carried away with the head so I stretched out the nose of a terminater(made it longer). My machining methods gave me the same type of tail that the Loke has. None of my competitors had a 7 inch lure so I made it 7 inches on the nose. I tried both round and square lips and now have a custom lip made for me by Jerry Podmarsky that is squared. The wood is Power pole red Cedar. The wood comes from huge power poles cut by my wood guy with a portable saw mill. These custom boards are a large part of my system. Start with the width and thickness you need. The lure is not a fast lure meaning it panics or wanders at a good mid speed. We have been pounding multiple muskies including a 9 fish day with two rods at 4.3 mph gps. One sweet option is I can get more speed just by putting a heavier hook at the belly position. This adds another 1 mph but why go 5.3 when they bite like hell at 4.3? The result is a Crank that trolls in the top 7 feet at about 4 to 5 mph with a serious wander pattern that even Lokes cant match. The best ones Ive tested run about 2.5 feet off of the center line 6 feet behind a 2 oz mini ball. Thats 5 feet of wander. So in a sense I took three baits and combined the best features of each one and created a hybred. Its easy to make , has great fish catching action and sells for enough money to be profitable. Next year Ill add 10 and 12 inch versions . Ill post a picture of one jointed and one straight. also a few of our stranger prototypes. It will be a new post though as this one is getting slow to load. Kingfisher |
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| thanks for the info!but beleive me your talonz quality are realy not the same than the wish,they are not expansive for nothing |
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Posts: 569
Location: Williamstown, WV | There should be a requirement to be able to post a response. Either you have to have a 4th grade education or you have to be a member. What "Dick" posted pretty much dissing Talonz baits is uncalled for. Kingfisher you have awesome baits at a great price and some great paint jobs at that. Don't listen to people who are not members.
Shawn |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | I agree 100%.
"Dick" has done the same thing to me and it's just a waste of bandwidth.
I also agree that setting up your tools to do one specific job will save a ton of time. I am like Jed though in that I spend a lot of time sanding after using my router to make the finish just right. I'm not too wrapped in mass production as I tend to be at the "boutique" end of the lure making spectrum and part of that allure is that you can't just buy one at your local shop.
I could certainly alter my own designs to make them faster and cheaper to make but then I'd be selling just another generic bait which the world already has more than enough of. My hats off to the guys that stick to their guns and make the baits that they would want to buy. Customers are getting smarter and more educated all the time especially with the internet and most people know that a pretty paint job only goes so far. The baits have to walk the walk first and foremost.
The basement bait makers that post here are incredibly talented and if I could afford it, I'd be one of everything they sell to show my appreciation for the time and skill they put in. |
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Posts: 1185
Location: Iowa | Way to go Dick...you obviously know what you are talking about...I have used or seen used the next four lures makers baits and have yet to be let down...Snax, you have some of the best finished baits I have ever seen with a sweet action...Wishmasters have an incredible finish and an unbelievable action as well...Talonz are awesome in the own wright with capabilites of dredging to the true depths without blowing out...and Trueglides are incredible both action and finish as well...they are all different baits with different actions and the craftsmanship on each of them is hands down the best you will ever see both in quality and appearance..its like comparing apples to oranges...so keep talking Dick...Great job guys...keep the baits coming...these baits all take a beating to keep going without missing a beat...
Big Perc |
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | Thanks Perc, much appreciated.
Tigger has really impressed me lately with his combination of using foil and then his colour matching abilities. Really nice workmanship and his baits all look like Tigger baits if you know what I mean. Muskie Fool has some of the most unique designs I've ever seen and his originality is mind blowing to say the least!!!
Thanks again to the good folks here at MuskieFirst for allowing us all to showcase our baits. Without your generous exposure we'd stay in the basements and never make any progress. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Musky Snax Mike does a fantastic job! He has GREAT customer service as well. I ordered a replacement walleye for the one that my buddy had lost and when I got it, although it still looked amazing it was a bit different than my original, which was no fault of Mike's. So I emailed him and explained my problem and he gladly made me a different one off a picture of my old one. I sent him back the walleye and he sent me back another one.
By the way Mike, that new one you got me is AWESOME!! I tossed a good amount out on Okauchee and that thing just looked real! The guy I was fishing with loved it. We also think we might have moved a big girl from deep with it. Just saw a shadow though so not entirely sure!
Muskiefool, those things look awesome....what is a price on one of them? |
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Posts: 613
Location: big cove tannery pa | Well since this is talking about big lures i guess i outa show my partners custom suick! 14 " long,not sure on the weight Great action!
The only problem i found with it is the metal lip he used in the rear is to thin and bends to easy!
Edited by pamuskyhunter 1/3/2007 5:01 PM
(14inch custom suick 001.jpg)
(14inch custom suick 002.jpg)
(14inch custom suick 003.jpg)
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14inch custom suick 001.jpg (39KB - 268 downloads)
14inch custom suick 002.jpg (35KB - 307 downloads)
14inch custom suick 003.jpg (29KB - 256 downloads)
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Posts: 680
Location: Muskoka Ontario,Canada | My GOD!!! That has some wicked big fish potential!!! I'm not a big fan of the design of Suicks but that one is awesome. |
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Posts: 613
Location: big cove tannery pa | well thanx alot,my friend is going to show me how to make them!
I don't really like suicks at all either,but they do catch fish!
He was talking today about making a 20" version of a suick!
I cant wait to see that. |
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Posts: 399
Location: Burton, Ohio | Wow snax! Thanks for the kind words.
You guys make some amazing baits!
Those Big baits are incredible things. I have tried some recently. They are alot of work! I have never made them before and there is alot to think about out on them. This monster is close to a pound! 1-1/2" thick and out of hardwood. I can see the cedar has an advantage to weight. I have not had it in the boat yet. I casted it out and and hit the bottom in 12 feet real fast in about 25 feet of retrieve. It bottomed out in the mud! It runs true but I don't know how deep yet. We do not have ice here in Ohio. None for the weekend. I will try it out I hope.
Take care
John |
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