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Location: Minneapolis, MN | There is another thread on this board with lots of reply posts about why someone should be a member of Muskies, Inc. That got me thinking, with all these great reasons to join, why has membership stagnated while the number of muskie anglers has skyrocketed?
I am a member but I don’t for a second think any club much less MI is for everyone. However, some people estimate the muskie fishing population to be upwards of 750,000 or more. If that is accurate then MI only represents 10% of muskie anglers. There must be some improvements the organization can implement that would make MI membership more common than 10%?
This survey has run its course in the past a few times. Over the years many have shared comments for not joining or letting their memberships lapse. Some common responses I can think of include, Meetings too far away, chapter near me is too clickish, I don’t care for the magazine, etc. I would like to put a little different spin on it this time. Instead of focusing on what MI is doing or not doing for you individually as if we should be comparing MUSKIE magazine to a magazine published by a for-profit company, let’s focus on ideas you may have for improvements that will decrease the number of members who let their membership lapse or compel new members in their 20’s and 30’s to join. It might be insightful for people to respond with their age as it appears the 20-30 something’s are a big age category not equally represented in the current membership.
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Posts: 32884
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | This is a subject I've spoken to several times, including one time at a Spring meeting. I think the last regime and the current leadership are in tune due to a trend started a few years back, but still need to see further than the folks that are at the International meetings. The Membership. The International needs to look at reaching out to the Clubs AND public, ALL the public, in the Muskie world and fishing world in general. Lots more to say, I'll give this some thought and speak to the subject more tomorrow. |
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Posts: 108
Location: IN | I think it's mainly about the politics. Not saying that Muskies Inc. has a problem or is worse than other organizations. But, I think a lot of people just don't want to be annoyed by the political infighting. I no longer volunteer or donate to several non-musky related groups that I used to actively participate in. Mainly because I felt like they supported the politically empowered more than the resource itself. I think the negative shadows that are cast by other groups impact all conservation oriented organizations, including Muskies Inc.. I will say that Muskies Inc. is one of the very few organizations where you can see the benefit of your time and dollars at a local level, on your home waters. I still kick myself for all the time and money I spent to make some rich guys or senators hunting better. |
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| Look at it this way - if MI wasn't around - where would our sport be? For all it's flaws - we're still doing better with it in place. If you don't like what is going on with the organization either at a local or (inter)national level - get involved.
ANYONE who can afford to fish for muskies can spare the $35 discretionary money each year. At a minimum - there's power in numbers. The bigger we are, the more influence we can have. |
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| Because sometime ago MI decided to not rock the boat. ie. avoid all controversy like the plague. Not the way MI started, that's for sure. When Gil Hamm meet resistence to funding Muskie stocking in Mn. He built his own hatchery and started stocking them anyway. Where is that courage? This movement to maintain the satus quo has stagnated this organization. You have about as many members as when I quit in '92. Something is wrong. |
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| at least has far has Minn is concerned Ive heard people state that MI only represents 10% of the total number of anglers,,,but that makes me wonder why havent the other 90% organized in some other way here in the state????,,with an alternative club,,,its alot easier to start something now then 37 yrs ago we have multiple messageboards two muskie magazines to get the word out,,,there was a statistic out that said we have more bowling alleys now then ever before but the total number of bowling leauges is down this was to illistrate that people are more and more either too busy or just not has willing has before to get involved. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Being a member of Muskies Inc is great.
I simply just don't have much time to contribute as much as I want.
I agree that the mag. needs to be sent out via e-mail, and not eat up such a large chunk of cash.
Edited by MikeHulbert 3/16/2006 9:50 AM
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Can you say Me generation, if I do this what is in it for ME! Yes the International is not run the way most people see fit, but that is slow to change, but you local chapter is where things get done the effect your local fishery. Yes the $35 might be thrown away to the international, but involvement and fundraising at your local chapter is what you should take pride in. Guest I guess our new approach is to work with the DNR, they are willing, but they also look at our membership and say why should we listen to a small voice, we can only organize 10% of our people and then of the 10% only 1% get involvled?
Like to see more feedback, like hooks said, if not Musky Inc what is our other vehicle for organization and change.
Troyz |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i think some of the work the clubs do on a local level is outstanding and like any "club" there are the people that make a difference and do things without needing to gloat and then there are the guys who join to be part of the "club" ... those are the kind that usually are the poster children for the club and probably run more people off than anything. just because you are part of the "club" doesn't make you an instant "pro-staffer" ... or maybe it does by the way the term is defined in this sport LOL.
i don't like the race for the inches because i think it's self-serving and puts more fish in jeapardy than anything .... IMO |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I think every musky angler shoudl be a member..period...even if not in their local club..pick one they like...our Madison club is one of the best IMO. We do alot for the musky fishing close to home. Sled, I think you are way off on "the race for inches"
being bad for the fish or fishery....I couldn't disagree more...what I think is funny is the guys that seem to be against registering their fish are the same guys that exaggerate their fish lengths and numbers and don't want to put down what they really catch per year...IMO.
Join muskies inc...somewhere, anywhere..it is a good organization....
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i joined last year because i really like the leadership of the headwaters club and thought i could help out with some volunteer time with some of the stuff they put on for kids and then some of the dock projects etc ... i was staunchly against joining prior to that because i viewed the club through some of the members i had met out and around. these guys were "clubbies" with a lot of talk, but for sure the logo all over everything making them experts and acting like tv pros. i actually had an argument at Andy Meyers Lodge with some club members about all of this and Donnie Hunt (the real deal as many of you know) was able to convince me that although all of that goes on and then some with the international, get to know the local guys and see what they are all about ... well, Donnie was right at least in my case with the Headwaters Club ... so i joined.
i won't likely register fish, because i think it's a pain in the a$$ doing administration in the other part of my life, why start doing paperwork in my hobby. the competition means nothing to me and i guess i've seen enough targeting of small fish trolling that does damage, if a fish is stressed in "hot" water ... it still gets measured blah, blah, blah ... and for what .... my numbers are bigger than your numbers .... guess i could give a rats a$$ ... i fish for me and nobody else ... i joined muskies inc. not because of muskies inc., but because of headwaters ... this is the kind of club that would be there with or without muskies inc. and they do some pretty good things for the area ...
people in other areas probably benefit the most with the networking for outings and trips etc... more than you would if you live where i live, so for me it's all the other stuff ...
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Posts: 734
Location: Watertown, MN | Brad, I don't totally agree with the Lunge Log. I know alot of people who won't regester fish because they have to name the lake, if they discover a hot bite on Lake X, at a given time of year, I do not want to make that information available for the public, I spent my time learning the lake and discovering the pattern to have other people look to a website and just drive there, and they don't want to enter false information into the log. This change has driven alot of people away from entering into the log, also the DNR in MN use to use the information to determine the how a given lake.
Troyz |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Troy, I totally agree with your post..I am not one to give up my "lake x's" too easily....
I don't like the fact the lunge log makes you name the lake...it basically makes people that want to register a fish on their lake x, do one of two things...lie or not register it...I think you should be able to register a fish and not have to name the lake...but that is just the way they do it now....
It's unfortunate they make you name the lake....I don't want every tom, d*ck, and harry to know where I am fishing sometimes...
They use to allow "Vilas Co" for an example as the lake name...I wish they went back to that but something tells me it won't happen....
Edited by MSKY HNR 3/14/2006 9:51 AM
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| Personal opinion is that they should quit publishing the magazine every month. It chew up so much of the budget. Quarterly would be just fine for that mag. |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Midge, there's a motion to be voted on that would reduce the amount of magazines to 6 annually. I can't rattle off the cost savings, but it's a place to start.
Some of the problems with the financial side of the Int'l is that we're really at that break-even point with our membership. The dues haven't really gone up, but costs have. Min print runs is really all we're getting on the mag, so if we could increase membership by 25%-50% we would be in a lot better position.
All I can say is look at which chapter you like and look at it as joining that chapter. We need more people to help out on that chapter level if we want to get anything done. I know that I'm getting burned out because we just don't have enough people to spread the work around with. I will say that our chapter's board has gotten a lot younger, and that's helping get fresh ideas out there, but we still need more bodies to do the little things. If I had 10 people who could take just one task a year there's a lot more we could do as a club. I think most clubs are this way.
BTW Joe, 10% of 750,000 would be 75,000. 7500 would be 1%. Now figure that 10% of that 1% is really the number of people doing the work not only for MI, but for the muskie fishery in general. So that's about 750 people that are doing the work for everyone else here. Pretty sad...
Shawn Kellett
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | i am not a member... i dont think it is for everyone, i have considered joining, over the last year or so i have been looking into seriously joining and doing it with a open mind. what i found was...
very political, and i dont want to be involved with that for sure!
the fish contest is a joke, too many people lying about the size of thier fish. ive had more than a few first hand expereinces with peoples #s changing.
in my area ive noticed way too many "experts" that dont practice what the preach.
the group as a whole seems to be more concerned with signing up new members rather than making sure the current members are doing what is right!
however i know alot of good people who are members, i am considering becoming a member without belonging to a club, but why should i???? just to donate my dues???? i would rather send in a donation to a local club to put toward a kids outing or their stocking program. and be done with it.
i do my share of donating to the musky community throughout the year, what benifit would there be in me becoming a member???
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Posts: 326
Location: Plainfield IL | I think too much of the club membership fees are wasted on publication, printing and mailing of the monthly magazine. I think MI should publish their magazine as a pdf to their website once a month. I am sorry if some do not have computers, the world is changing and its time to jump on board.
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | that post brings the obvious point ... i hear somewhere, and please someone who knows more accurately ... correct this if it's wrong, but some 80% of dues is required to run the magazine. that being the case, is it about muskies? or about magazines? ... how do you find the culprit connected to establishing the priorities, brake the politics and make the change? or does everyone just go with the flow? .... again, i'm a member of Headwaters and don't feel like a member of muskies inc ...
so, everyone who is claiming it's such a great organization to support the needs of the resource .... where is muskies inc. spending the predominant amount of money that drives the organization? .... for the fish, or the fishermen?
i just got the feb. magazine and there's (1) killed fish on the cover (sure she deserves to keep it, .... BUT), shows a bunch of huge tigers caught in wisconsin and actually has one of the top 10 caught in north american muskies coming from a lake just across the street from me .... we know that can't be true from reading all the "expert" opinion of the waste of time it is to fish in the inferior strain waters of Wisconsin ....
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| I am a member of Muskies Inc.. I think, like all things. Muskies Inc. has its good and bad. No club is perfect. The good that the club does seems to outweigh the bad. Most but not all members seem to be it for the right reasons. I agree that it can be clickish especially for new members who don't know anyone. I was concerned about this but with time, I made some good friends through the club and my knowledge of muskie fishing hasn't been hurt either. . Also I feel that some chapters are better than others. If you don't like one chapter try another one. The only way a chapter will know if it is poor is if the members leave. The magazine is not the greatest but I do read it and I do like the website. I wish Muskies inc. magazine would have more articles on how to fish or a spot light on a different lake that we may not be familiar with. If you are dissatified with your membership write the president of muskies inc. and let him now what your concerns are. |
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Posts: 654
Location: MPLS, MN | I joined because 2 reasons.
1.} From my understanding the catch and release ethic today is mainly because of them. So I figured in a way I owe them for the strong fishing here in MN
2.} 10% Discount at Thorne Bros. I figure I get back about half my membership on discounted baits. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | For me it is a lot about time and location. I am busy with school a lot and when school is out I'm working hardcore to pay for school, so I cant really afford joining a big thing that I cant attend a lot of the times. Plus I have heard some of the bad stuff about MI, but also heard a lot of good about them. I guess I like the comraderory on this site and others that I dont feel the need to join MI.
Mike |
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Posts: 207
Location: Mpls, MN | ". I think MI should publish their magazine as a pdf to their website once a month. I am sorry if some do not have computers, the world is changing and its time to jump on board."
The magazine is available as a PDF now. Was recently made available and I believe the idea is to see if we can get people to opt-out of rec'ving the printed one. And I also agree - times are changing and people do need to accept that somewhat. But there are issues with people that do not have high speed access in the area so downloading a big PDF would be rough. The current April issue is 4.22 megs. Over 56k that would be fair amount of time.
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | I was a member for a couple of years and chose to drop it due to issues that we have seen on this site even. I went to one meeting, and pretty much felt out of place...it just wasn't my thing. The main issue I had is that I met quite a few people, and from what I observed, some seemed to hold this "purist" aura about themselves....as if others were below them. I felt that if I had a little differing view on aspects (any...you name it) I was looked down upon as being less of a "muskie fisherman". What even became more ironic is that I had been fishing for these fish for many years more than they had (not that "that" is really important). I get enough of that teaching kids these days that I don't need it as part of my most favorite thing to do outside of my career.
My second attempt to try and join a club dealt with a chapter up in the walker area, since the lakes in the area are where I spend my time. I would love to get involved in stocking efforts, promoting expasnsion of fisheries, tagging, etc... Left multiple messages for the only contact I had, with no response.... Definitely not the way to make a good impression for gaining membership, and thus I am not a member.
Now..I have met a few really nice people as well, through this site. Treats (great guy) and EsoxLady (did I win the boat?) are two that come to mind right now. I have yet to meet some in person like Esox50 (exchaning tactics about lake X) and look forward to doing so someday... It is people like this that build solid friendships that no club can really do as an entire group. I would consider going to more TC chapter meetings to make more contact with others, etc. but after a full day of work with kids, the last thing I want to do is leave home again for hearing membership info, selling raffle tickets, and in some cases, unknown speakers who just repeat what I have heard and read countless times on websites, magazines, chats, etc. It just gets old hearing the same-old same-old time and again. That is why I have dropped my muskyhunter magazine, and only rarely purchase one or Esox Angler. At this point, I have not seen much that is new in the muskie world besides a bunch of new custom lures.
It's been a long day...sorry about the rant...
Steve
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Posts: 699
Location: Hugo, MN | Too Much Preaching and Whining . . . if a person catches a fish and wants to keep it that is his prerogative. I think catch and release is essential but if a person is within his rights as defined by the law then what he does is his business and I have grown tired of people being chatised for things like that. That and the fact there is no Sioux Falls chapter has kept me out of the club. |
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Posts: 50
Location: Park Ridge, Illinois | BenR - 3/14/2006 4:40 PM
If they would explain what happened to the national fund back in the day, many of us would join once again. Clearly it was a major mess, but since, nobody had explained what happened to all the money. Not a "me" generation, but don't want to donate to any one person's retirement account...Ben
I'm a fairly new member - what was the National Fund? When did it go away? What if any was the explanation for it going away? |
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Posts: 4266
| Easy answer for me....I don't like clubs.
Been to many clubs doing seminars back in the day, and personally, the last thing that I need is to be in club- go to meetings- go on outings- have people wanting a piece of my time that is already in short supply. It's great for some people to belong to clubs, they just aren't my bag.
Beav |
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| Not sure who VMC is but he made some VERY GOOD POINTS!
Nice reply VMC!
Ater my 9th year attending the Minnesota Muskie Expo, and being a Member of MI for about 10 years it seems
all I see these days is Large Ego's More and More over priced lures, salesman that make me want to vomit,
Solicitation that reminds me more of Going to a Kids Carnival.
Thats not to mention the fact that these Outfitters (mostly in Canada) want me to spend big money for me to stay at there resort and then have the balls to tell me I cant keep a 52 incher! and that I should use Barbless hooks (which I will NEVER do again)and then have people tell me that I should not even take the fish out of the water for a Photo, (becasue I might hurt the poor little muskie)
In the mean time I go home and watch Joe Bucher holding fish out of the water for that Great Camera shot, and watch the Tails on his fish being split because of the large meshing on the Net (Joe needs a new net)
I know im straying here a little bit, but my point is simple, PEOPLE dont join MI because of the Stigma, the
Hypocrisy, the ego's and those people imposing there Values on everyone else.
Its not rocket scince in my book...its actually quite simple if you think about it.
Brian Kaiser
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| Oop's I meant to say VMS (steve) Good Reply!
VMC makes a fine Hook though....."Smile"
Brian Kaiser |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | VMS - 3/14/2006 3:33 PM
I was a member for a couple of years and chose to drop it due to issues that we have seen on this site even. I went to one meeting, and pretty much felt out of place...it just wasn't my thing. The main issue I had is that I met quite a few people, and from what I observed, some seemed to hold this "purist" aura about themselves....as if others were below them. I felt that if I had a little differing view on aspects (any...you name it) I was looked down upon as being less of a "muskie fisherman". What even became more ironic is that I had been fishing for these fish for many years more than they had (not that "that" is really important). I get enough of that teaching kids these days that I don't need it as part of my most favorite thing to do outside of my career.
My second attempt to try and join a club dealt with a chapter up in the walker area, since the lakes in the area are where I spend my time. I would love to get involved in stocking efforts, promoting expasnsion of fisheries, tagging, etc... Left multiple messages for the only contact I had, with no response.... Definitely not the way to make a good impression for gaining membership, and thus I am not a member.
Now..I have met a few really nice people as well, through this site. Treats (great guy) and EsoxLady (did I win the boat?) are two that come to mind right now. I have yet to meet some in person like Esox50 (exchaning tactics about lake X) and look forward to doing so someday... It is people like this that build solid friendships that no club can really do as an entire group. I would consider going to more TC chapter meetings to make more contact with others, etc. but after a full day of work with kids, the last thing I want to do is leave home again for hearing membership info, selling raffle tickets, and in some cases, unknown speakers who just repeat what I have heard and read countless times on websites, magazines, chats, etc. It just gets old hearing the same-old same-old time and again. That is why I have dropped my muskyhunter magazine, and only rarely purchase one or Esox Angler. At this point, I have not seen much that is new in the muskie world besides a bunch of new custom lures.
It's been a long day...sorry about the rant...
Steve
Things have changed quite a bit in our chapter. I was a member in the mid 90's and left. I then joined another chapter a couple years later and left that chapter to give the TC a try again. I was VERY anti-MI and expressed my views publically about it. Dick Pearson basically threw it back on me to either put-up or shut-up. That was what I needed to get involved. I can say that I don't know of anyone that pubically puts people down about how they fish or anything like that. I may not see it, but I used to years ago. The feeling I get is that the old "who are you and get away from my fish" mentality is going away in favor of a new generation of anglers working for the resource. My whole motivation to be President was to get our chapter back to it's roots and get more involved with the DNR and stocking. That goal is becoming a reality. George and I have been bringing good feedback to the DNR and they are responding. We're also going to start 2 rearing ponds this year. VMS, we could use some help dragging that net this fall if you're still interested in helping with the fishery.
I will give you your point on the speaker thing. Here's the problem, the people that have good information either 1. don't give it up or 2. Can't really speak well in front of a group. We're TOTALLY open to ideas for speakers. I will say that we have had a couple good ones back to back with Larry Dahlberg and the MN DNR. Both had people glued to their seats.
Yes we do sell raffle tickets, need volinteers for events, and hold other business at meetings. Unfortunately there's business that has to be taken care of and money to be made if we want to do all the "fun stuff". Nothing comes cheap/free.
As far as the Walker Chapter. They had issues which is why they folded. No need to dig-up that dead horse.
Basically, the club is what you make of it. I didn't know more the 3 people in our club a few years ago and now I can say I have about 100 new friends. I realize that not everyone is outgoing or has time to invest in a club, but what I've found is that the people who volinteer their time from the start always have a possitive experience in our club.
Feel free to come to any meeting. In fact we're holding a poolside in April in Bloomington. More to come on that one.
-Shawn |
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Posts: 303
Location: Valentine, NE USA | Well, I just spent 10 minutes going through this thread making a list of most of the reasons people don't want to join. Hopefully, I/we can use this information in our chapter.
Let's hope all the other Chapter/International heads do the same thing.
Brian Sanger
MI 53 |
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