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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | Many of you have heard about the increased commercial fishing by the first nation on the LOTWs and other waters in NW Ontario.
I received this e-mail from Gord Pyzor (former Kenora fisheries district manager, now In-Fisherman field editor and a very knowledgeable person about NW Ontario fisheries ) this AM and it greatly conserns me.
Some of you may have seen pictures of LOTWS gill nets with rotten fish last summer. These are revolting, but are not the real problem. Nets that aren't tended soon quit fishing. Nets that are well tended fish every day are more of a problem, as these are the nets that catch fish. If the commercial fisherman is a good one He will move his nets to the fish just like you and I do when trying to catch fish. These are the nets that will decimate a fishery, not the ones with rotten fish!
Here's Gord's e-mail: He sent this to Dick Pearson, and Doug Stange and myself. I feel that the thought was to get this out and talked about.
I don't know what can be done from the US side as far as Canadian natives commercial fishing, but I think that getting this out so people are aware of the problem can't hurt.
This is going to effect everyone who fished the LOTWs and the Winnipeg River, and pretty #*^@ soom!
Doug Johnson
I'll be doing the same post on the MH site.
Here's Gord's e-mail:
"Good morning Doug, Doug, and Dick.
Regrettably, you are about to watch the dismantling and destruction of one of the greatest freshwaters fisheries of all times.
Please see below.
Gord
----- Original Message -----
From: Gordon
To: [email protected] ; Betty Wires
Cc: Robert Pye ; Dave Brown (E-mail) ; [email protected] ; Jerry Fisher ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; John Monteith ; [email protected] ; Gerry Cariou ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected]
Sent: Wednesday, April 13, 2005 5:31 AM
Subject: First Nation Netting on Lake of the Woods
Dear Fred and Betty.
I received a very disturbing phone call last evening from Lee Winterton (Guy Winterton's brother) about the extent of First Nation commercial netting on Lake of the Woods, which corroborates what many people (including myself) have been observing and reporting to you repeatedly for well over a year now.
I suggested to Lee that he call, and/or meet, with you as soon as possible to fill you in on the details.
As Lee reported, one of the principals in the new commercial fish packing plant here in Kenora, advised him that he has been shipping "40,000 pounds of a fish a week, all winter long, from Lake of the Woods."
Lee also related a first hand account of an Indian commercial fisherman who told him that he was taking all of his "quotas" from all the lakes he was "licensed to fish" solely from the Lake of the Woods. The commercial fisherman also suggested to Lee that this was now a common practise with many other commercial fishermen. I am sure Lee will relate the specifics when he meets with you.
If this is true, the harvest is entirely unsustainable and will severely threaten fish stocks in Lake of the Woods.
As you know, the accelerated level of commercial netting on the lake over the past year has been unprecedented and is cause for concern. It now appears to be totally out of control. If it continues, I have no doubt, whatsoever, that we will shortly see very serious responses within the fishery.
Indeed, if what Lee is relating is factual, and I have no doubt that it is, given what many of us have witnessed ourselves and reported to you repeatedly, the impact on the walleye and pike populations is unsustainable. And the effect on other species, especially muskellunge, that are being netted, killed and dumped as an unwanted by-catch is disgraceful.
If 40,000 pounds of fish a week are being shipped from the new local fish processing plant alone, the implications are unmistakable. It translates into 160,000 pounds of fish a month or over 2 million pounds a year! And that is from only one source. Given the early ice out conditions that now present themselves, if uncontrolled commercial netting continues throughout the upcoming spring spawning period, the impact on the fishery will be particularly harmful. Perhaps irreversible.
I would urge you to take immediate and responsible action to reduce and control the harvest to sustainable levels, else risk losing one of the most important fisheries in Ontario.
A friend.
Gord Pyzer"
Fishing Editor, Outdoor Canada Magazine
Field Editor, In-Fisherman Magazine
Co-Host, The Real Fishing Radio Show
President, Canadian Angling Adventures Ltd.
Outdoor Columnist, The Kenora Daily Miner and News, The Fort Frances Times,
Just Fishing! and Grainews (Farm Business
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Posts: 686
Location: Tomahawk, Wisconsin | Doug that really sucks!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I hope I live to see the day where the hunting and gathering rights of the First Nations of Canada and the tribes in the states are brought into line with sound natural resource practices. Not to say that the white man isn't doing a whole lot of damage as well but there has to come a day where an enlightenment begins........ hopefully soon. Dave Jonesi |
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| Very disturbing indeed, these gill nets make me sick and I hope anyone who comes across one cuts it down 
Spearing and commercial harvest need to be better regulated, because enforcement resources are just too limited with MNR/DNR budget cuts |
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| i apologize in advance for typing mistakes, i am on foreign computer. cant find punctation on this keyboard.
ok..i do not know much about canadian politics...but here goes. can someone or a group file for an emergency adjunct hearing-meeting with the governing body. can musky fishing group, walleye group, lotw resort owner association, ontario tourism board pool thier money together and hire a candian lobbiest group and or law firm to get an emergency hearing underway or file for tempory hault of the commercial fishing on lotw until the proper authorities have the time to reveiw the information to see if this truely what they want for one of the biggest tourist areas of ontario. i dont know how the first nation got the authority to run these operations, so i dont know if this idea is even plausible or not.
lotw might be argueably the best inland lake to fish in north america. i would imagine millions of dollars come in from the tourism here. if the fishing declines, so will the tourism. we need to get this info-message out to other groups besides musky fisherman. i am sure walleye groups and tourism groups have more strenght than musky fisherman. is there a canadian attorney on here who can chime in here.
somehow we need to get together, to be heard and taken seriously. this all now, none later mentality can totaly destroy populations of fish. to the point where lotw resorts are could worth hardly nothing. ever since i old enough to know, i realized that canada managed their natural resources with the highest level of respect and with much conservation. i dont know what gave to grant the commercial fishing to first nation on lotw, but this could be the beginning of a severe fishing problem, tourist problem for the area.
hopefully a canadian attorney can chime in. can we file for an emergency hearing to tempory stop until all info can be reviewed. enough groups out there have interest, i would like to think we could get something done.
tomcat |
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Posts: 1936
Location: Eau Claire, WI | Doug,
Like many, I read this in disgust and am willing to help in any way I can but quite honestly don't know what to do... Write letters, make phone calls...if so to who?
What a shame, for sure it will cripple tourism but not to mention that it would take ????? how many years, IF EVER, to rebuild the resource...
Hard to believe that those who (native indians) preach respect for the resource and mother earth would go this far... All in the name of profit... Their new fish packing plant will be empty in a few years if they totally rape the resource, the money will be long gone, and the resource will be empty as well... very sad, very sad indeed.
Please let us know if there is anything specific you think we as a fishing community can do to help this situation... There are thousands of people who visit LOTW area every year, I'm sure many would be willing to help in some way if they knew how/what.
Thanks for keeping us informed. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I remember something about Rainy Lake and the problems there years ago with commercial fishing. The effects on that water were pretty dramatic.
The issue here it seems to me is the quota and enforcement of where that quota total is harvested, as halting the Tribal harvest is impossible. Is the Ministry of Natural Resources the agency responsible for enforcement, or do the Tribes carry the enforcement responsibility?
Tribal members are people, just like people all aross the globe. When money becomes the motivator and there's a good amount to be made, there will be corruption and abuses unless the system runs under an agency watchful eye. The idea that the Tribal people's beliefs about the resource should create a conservation ethic are somewhat stereotypical, and that could be an understatement. |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | I too am sort of at a loss as what to do. This is a Canadian issue, and folks from the US will probably be politely
told to mind their own business. I do know that Canadian organizations like NOTO (Northern Ontario Tourist Outfitters
Association) http://www.noto.net/ and OFAH (Ontario Fedration of Angulars and Hunters) http://www.ofah.org/ are aware of the problem. These organizations have political clout, perhaps a letter or e-mail to these organizations expressing your consern would help.
I don't like the idea of cutting nets. This only pours more fuel on the fire, and can get you arrested. In general the nets are
perfectly legal and within the rights of the folks who are setting them. Regulations and quotas need to be changed and then enforced.
Doug Johnson |
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Posts: 440
| Sounds like total disregard for the resource to me. Special regulations have been put in place to stop Sportsman from destoying the resource only to have it raped by a commercial entity that no one wants to regulate because they are some "special interest" group. If there are phone numbers or email addy's available please post them. I for one am tired of things like this. The rules need to apply to EVERYONE. |
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Posts: 158
Location: Eagan, MN | This is disgusting. There will surely be some big money behind the tribal fisherman to keep the status quo. We need to make sure there is adequate funding on our side. Organization is necessary and speed is paramount. Doug, who is leading the charge on our side? How can we get involved?
Many of us have never fished LOTW or other Canadian waters, but don't kid yourselves, this will affect us all. These waters absorb a huge amount of American angling pressure--- where will all that pressure go when fishing declines in Canada? That's right, back on your home waters in WI, MN, etc.
Someone suggested this on the MH board, and I recommend it here as well--- no more store bought or restaraunt bought fish for me. Don't assume that the source and/or type of fish is accurately stated. I've heard of stories where catfish was sold as walleye and vice-versa. At least for now, we can't risk supporting this industry.
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| Where do thes fish go when they leave the processin plant in Kenora? Are they sold as fresh fish to stores in the US? Can a ban be put on them similair to the beef ban? Say, no more then 4 fish per person? If we knew who bought the fish maybe they could be persuaded to stop buying. |
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Posts: 2012
| Doug,
It will be interesting to know the response ....Keep us informed.
Justin Caslavka
Flag Island Resort NW Angle
319-721-0873 |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Please keep us/me informed. Is there a source to direct letters of concern to that you would suggest?. Do you know if when talking about 40,000 lbs per week if they are talking the entire LOTW system ie Rainy and the Winnipeg up by Kenora, or just LOTW proper. Either way, sounds like an exrbitant number, and something should be done. I would think that the tribe itself would frown upon the practice if the viability of the fishery due to this high harvest rate, is in question. |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | Here's another organization that is conserned. NWOTA (North Western Ontario Toursism Association)
http://www.nwota.com/
This is the local (based in Kenora) organization. Many of these folks are resort owners
on the LOTWs, and have shown consern with netting problem. A note of support to them
would no doubt help.
Doug Johnson |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | As I understand the 40,000 lbs/week are from the LOTWs on the Ontario side. There is also netting on the Winnipeg
river system, but walleyes from this here aren't commercially saleable because of high mercury content.
Interestingly the Minnesota DNR recently changed walleye limits on the Minnesota side of the lake. These regulations
were put into effect because anglers were taking in excess of 600,000 lbs per year. The Minnesota DNR feels that the Minnesota side of the lake could only support an annual take of around 450,000 lbs per year, so you can see what an annual harvest of around 2,000,000 lbs per year could do. Ontario waters are approximately twice the size of the Minnesota side.
There are some quota's, (I've been unable to find out what they are), but the biggest problem is reporting and enforcement. As Steve pointed out there's money involved.
I'll do some more talking to the Canadian friends who are working on this problem. As I get new contacts besides the ones I've listed I'll post them.
Doug Johnson
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| I have been fishing LOTW's for the past 20 years, particularly the NWA. Spent time during the late 80's and early 90's as a guide when that portion of the lake was commercially netted by non-native commercial netters. Bushy from Picture Rock, used to string a net across the south end of Bishop Bay. When this net went in, the fishing went south in Bishop. I would be interested to find out what the quota's were for these netters.
These nets are already having an effect. One reason, I suspect, for the dramatic increase in the muskie population was these netters going out of business. Now with the renewed netting the lake will be on a significant decline. Don't think that it is just the NWA that has the nets, although from what I have seen there are many, there is significant netting by the Grassy nation near Morson. I have seen nets around Morson out to the Little Traverse Bay.
This is a Canadian issue and the US can certainly apply pressure. But don't expect much. It took Jesse Ventura to threaten not allowing Canadian trains into the US to stop the border wars in the late 90's. With this being part of the treaty rights of the native indians, it will be difficult to change.
As Gord stated, You are witnessing the destruction of one of the great fisheries!!!
Dan |
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Posts: 1310
Location: Washington, PA | I've never fished LOTW, but will definately support a joint effort if we can come up with a plan. |
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Posts: 52
Location: N.W. Ontario | Someone asked where are these fish going, Chicago's True World Foods had been spotted picking up walleye. Here is their site:
http://www.trueworldfoods.com/
As Doug mentioned, contact NWOTA, Sunset Country Tourism and NOTO to offer support.
The problem really lies with the OMNR and their reluctance to enforce the set quotas. My belief is that they need pressure applied to them in order to monitor and manage the situation. The more groups involved and voices the better.
Edited by EsoXterra 4/15/2005 6:21 AM
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Posts: 80
| Doug,
I would also recommend posting this on the different Walleye boards, the more help the better.... |
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Posts: 906
Location: Warroad, Mn | Good idea! Walleyes are the target fish as that's were the money is. Muskies are collateral damage, but are often caught.
Doug Johnson |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | I agree that anything we can do to help should be done. I am greatful to be able to fish that place for one week out of the year, and am absolutely ruined for other fishing after that week. Great idea on the walleye angle, those guys outnumber the heck out us and could make a loud voice. |
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| I saw the True World Foods site and I guess I was suggesting letting the reatiler know that as long as he has Canadian Walleye in his place he won't have me there spending my $$$. I have serious doubts that netting will stop as long as there is a market for the fish |
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Posts: 158
Location: Eagan, MN | I just finished up sending emails to the three sportsman's groups above, as well as the fish disbributor. I strongly encourage everyone to do the same. Takes five minutes. Let's not just talk among ourselves about this. Let's be heard!!! |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If the fish are being imported into the US, Ithink there might be specific sections of NAFTA that apply to abusive overharvest of things like timber, etc. and subsequent import in the US that might be a tool. Look also to the groups that have forced the issue of listing the origin of hardwood laminates in an effort to conserve the rain forest. There has to be a way to at least apply some pressure. |
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Posts: 147
Location: Milwaukee, WI | There something about Mr. Pyzer's letter that puzzles me.
He quotes someone saying that the fish plant shipped: "40,000 pounds of fish per week all winter long".
Are these fish from the 2004 open water season netting ?
If LOTW is covered with ice from November until April, how can the Natives harvest fish during this period ?
Farther below in the letter he rolls that 40K lbs per week into a 2 million lbs per year harvest. This implies that the Natives are harvesting fish during every month of the year.
Again, how can people net fish if the lake is frozen ? |
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Posts: 52
Location: N.W. Ontario | They use a device called an under ice creep. A hole is drilled and net is attached to the creep which is worked along under the ice to another hole, this way the net is stretched out and works same as it does in open water. Netting occurs all year long and his numbers are accurate by all eye witness accounts.
Edited by EsoXterra 4/14/2005 4:53 PM
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| They use what is called a (and I hope this is right) jigger stick. They cut holes in the ice and snack the net through. No big deal.
Doug can probably give you a better idea. He spent time with commercial netters on the MN side. |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | Yeah, it's actually a fairly easy task to set gill nets under the ice.
K. |
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Posts: 199
Location: Anchorage | The whole subject is ridiculously sickening. Instead of coming more and more in line with what needs to be done, many tribes continue to push the ecological limits of any system. They don't have to worry about their quotas being cut, becuase "It's their right to net, spear (do whatever the he!! they want). Everyone else watches the fisheries be destroyed and their bag limits be reduced. And if the fishery crashes, who pays to revive it, if possible? The DNRs and MNRs who have no control over what the tribes to in the first place. Reminds me of Red Lake's walleyes all over again.
Some people's ignorance is only preceeded by their greed. |
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Posts: 147
Location: Milwaukee, WI | Thanks for answering. Don't misunderstand, I'm on your side. I just believe we should have the facts correct when entering into a debate, or crying foul.
Can US folks exert any influence into this matter by informing the people who operate the resorts we patronize that we don't approve of this situation ?
Most resorts on LOTW are family-owned businesses and, in my case, I can speak with the owners of the resort, almost any time I please.
It seems logical that if there are a group of angry, small business owners in the LOTW area, their collective voices would get some results. |
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Posts: 199
Location: Anchorage | Snaggletooth, your right. Anything anyone can do to help, whether our voices are heard or not needs to be done to at least slow this situation and others like it. I'm sure everyone on this board would agree, myself included. It just gets extremely frustrating to see history begin to repeat itself. |
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