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Posts: 1887
Location: syracuse indiana | well talk about bad things. here on the boat ramp on the campground on the barbee chain i found this the other day. it is just sickening. dont know how she died. but the underneath of her jaw looks tore up like someone caught her and shoved her back in under the ice probly. or maybe she died of natural couses. anyhow it is still a shame she measured about 34 and she is dried up.....r.i.p. bill
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Posts: 20281
Location: oswego, il | Bill kevin and I found 1 saturday and we seen a couple more we never investigated. You can bet there is way too many guy hooked fish out there. There should be a law for tip-up fishing on musky lakes, maybe a circle hook or something that keeps them from being guy hooked. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Found a 45 on Webster today |
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Posts: 170
Location: Valparaiso , Indiana | THAT SUCKS !!!!!  |
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | no closed season and high pressure will eventually take its toll. the signs are all ready there! |
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| This is exactly why the overpromotion of Iniana's fishery should have been toned down. Certain people and guides are at fault for this. What were they thinking?? They acted like there was the same amount of water as Canada, Minnesota, Or Wisconsin. Here is the REALITY OF IT!! Barbee, Webster and Tippy water acreage total. EQUALS 2640 acres. I can think of one bay of one lake in each of the previously three places mentioned that is greater in size than Indiana's total best Musky waters added togeather. |
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Posts: 7119
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | 5-8 fish stocked an acre.
What you found is a reason that stocking is done in such an amazingly high rate as it is. As much as its sad to see a fish wasted like that one, Indiana waters (with high stocking #s and low size limits) are truly managed as a "put and take" fishery. The muskie C&R ethic hasnt totally caught on yet in Indiana, and the stocking numbers are in place to offset harvest and incidental mortality like you witnessed. Does that make wasting a fish OK? Obviously not, but remember that the fisheries are very high in terms of numbers of adult fish, and this is because of the number of fish that the Indiana DNR puts into the lakes every year. As the fisheries, and the muskie fishing communities in Indiana mature, hopefully C&R will catch on more, and the lakes will only improve in terms of adult fish/acre. |
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| Like I said, Indiana has ONLY 2640 TOTAL acres on Barbee, Tippy and Webster. With the current pressures on these waters. You could double the stocking numbers and it would not change a thing. Ecspically when you got Guides hammering on the Muskies when the water is 80 degrees and above. THE PRESSURE NEEDS TO BE REDUCED. |
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Posts: 7119
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | But how do we reduce pressure? Lie about the fishing? Put a gag order on Muskie fisherman? Tell guides to stop plying their trade?
I agree the fishing pressure is growing greater and greater all the time. I remember years back when we'd be the ONLY muskie boat on the water, or one of a scant few.
Instead of advocating that we try to stop the flow of information about the fisheries, why not try to work WITH THE DNR to stock new and different waters? Maybe raise size limits, and move the stocking numbers down on certain waters, and divert those fish #s to new waters? There have to be positive paths to pursue.
Muskie fishing is growing, both in numbers of fisherman and available waters. I for one (and of course with my position working for a disseminator of muskie information, I am biased) like to see this growth, and hate to see the efforts of some to limit to others the opportunities to fish muskies on "their waters", and hope that in this and all situations, we can find solutions to pressure and crowding on waters. BUT, it is my belief that the exact WRONG way to do this is to to try to limit the information about these muskie fishing opportunities to others. One reason being that if the Indiana DNR (or any DNR programs that stock muskies) were to see that numbers of muskie fisherman hitting the waters, or a demand for muskie fisheries were to go into a decline or stagnation, they may percieve a lack of need to maintain or increase their efforts to bolster the muskie fisheries program. There are other reasons.
Like it or not, there are more muskie fisherman, and with the growth of the internet, and the successes of the muskie fishing magazines (and print material NOT devoted to soley muskies), this number is only going to increase. You can yell at the wind about the evils of muskie fishing popularity, or we can advocate for positive solutions. The negative only propogates negative outcomes.
Someone taught YOU to fish Tim, and someone told you about, or somehow you found out about the muskie fishing in Indiana. Do you wish that they had kept this information to themselves? Would you not teach your son/daughter, or grandson/granddaughter, or niece/nephew, or friends about muskie fishing, and keep the information about Indiana muskies to yourself? Would you tell them not to tell their son/daughter, or grandson/granddaughter, or niece/nephew about the joys of muskie fishing, and muskie fishing in Indiana. The attitudes you espouse are prevalent in other areas of the muskie range, the the outcomes of this attittude are only in-fighting and exclusionary attitudes which create nothing positive.
Lets think of positive solutions instead. |
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Posts: 189
Location: Hoboken, NJ / North Webster, IN | I totally agree that they are stocked to compensate for an open season and low size limits, but would disagree that "Indiana" hasn't caught on to C & R yet. It's such a new muskie fishery and so many of the anglers are on the younger side, that I would assume(and maybe wrongly so), that though they may be young, at least they are just learning the sport from an education standpoint the right way, in the current C&R climate. Very few IN muskie fisherman, have the "that's the we we've always done it" C & K philosophy you get from older fisherman in older fisheries. A good majority of the people hunting Muskies in Indiana, who are from Indiana, aren't you're local Joe Schmoe, John Q Fisherman.....they are MI members, or anglers who can afford the equipment, time and travel to fish those few specific lakes.
As far as promoting the fishery....it all ties together. Without the promotion, the buzz isn't as great, the popularity isn't as high, and granted neither is the pressure, but so goes the money, research and support of the fishery as well.
Now, ice fisherman, who pull in a Muskie, throw it on the ice and let it die for no reason are just idiots.
Education is the key.
My 2ยข |
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | the guides pounding the water out there are responsible for teaching alot of people the correct cpr methods. the more people that fish with them the more people will learn the correct way to handle the fish whether its 35 degrees or 90 degrees!!! ive never been with a guide anywhere whos #1 concern wasnt taking care of the resources! |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | Anybody who has spent time out there knows that the people that are likely responsible for delayed mortaility probably have not and will not fish with a guide that may or may not teach them the right methods of CPR. Let's face it these lakes are not hard to figure out how to fish. When you have very small lakes with high density stocking all that really is required is time on the water. I can't count how many times I've seen pontoon boats trolling around the lake with a bunch of mono spin cast setups. If they are getting fish and I'm sure they are, why would they need a guide in their minds? Who is going to teach them the proper CPR methods? As for ice fishing catches, perhaps the local club can work with the IN DNR to get a rule change to prohibit tip ups with trebbles on muskie lakes to reduce the incidental delayed mortality due to gut hooking? |
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| Ok Slamr, but I'll bet you will be one of the first ones to complain when you go out there and don't see or catch anything. My Grandfather and Dad taught me to fish. I found out about the Muskies in Indiana by myself just by doing the research and talking to the DNR, not other fisherman. I did MY OWN RESEARCH AND WORK!! I didn't ride the heals of other people for my knowledge. Like I said at 2640 totals acres there isn't a lot of water, It's very small, you can learn Webster, a whopping 745 total acres, in one day. 70% of the plates I see are from Ill. and Ohio. Tell us to creater more water? I spoke to the DNR on this specifically, almost all that they could stock considering suitible water is now stocked. |
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Posts: 1310
Location: Washington, PA | Uh, what's your point? I know for a fact that Slamr and crew have been fishing Indiana for a very long time, and as a matter of fact tried to keep a lid on it. Lake X if I remember. That being said, I'm from Pennsylvania, and drove to Indiana to fish those lakes a few weeks ago. I bought a license, I fished with slamr, we fished hard, for 3 days, didn't move a fish. I don't remember him complaining about that, I do recall his non stop complaining about me getting his boat that he hasn't washed in 2 years dirty. |
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Posts: 7119
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Actually Tim, when I do go out there and catch nothing, I figure thats Muskies. There are a ton of fish in those lakes, NO ONE will deny that, and blaming a bad day's fishing on people from out of state fishing the lakes doesnt change that the fish are there, just maybe a bit tougher to catch for whatever reason. If you want easy to catch muskies.....well, I think in that regard no matter where you go, be in Indiana, Minnesota, Canada or anywhere else, you're going to be a bit disappointed.
Congratulations on doing your own research, and by the looks of it, you seem to like MuskieFIRST, and for that, I thank you. My hope is that you are able to use MuskieFIRST for tips, tricks, finding fishing partners, and maybe even a few new places to fish. My guess is that many of the IL and Ohio plates you see at the ramp found out about the lakes in Northern Indiana through websites such as this one. You research here, they research here. I wont fault any of my members, be they guides or joe muskie dude, for providing information that becomes the fruits of their research. If you were to find out about a lake near your house, that someone on this site discussed, or you saw in a magazine, or through researching the DNR, chances are, you found that through research. Making friends with new fishing partners and finding out their tricks, tips, hot lakes....that too is research, just in a different manner.
And I for one will NOT play into the "my hometown, my waters, my fish" attitude you carry. I am from IL, have never killed an Indiana fish, and have tried to educate other fisherman chasing muskies in Indiana about catch and release. Am I hurting the fishery? When I and others talk (on the web, through emails, or face to face) about the Muskies Inc. chapters fund-raising activities for the Northern Indiana lakes, and MI chapters across the country, are we hurting the fisheries?
Are more fisherman fishing your waters? YES. Are they YOUR waters? NO. Truth be told, they are the DNR's waters to manage as they professionally see fit. I cant change your view that the water is yours by your choice of where to live, just as much as I cant change that people DID find out about the waters that I TOO was fishing, and doing very well by my standards. But all of us CAN work to make positive changes in the direction of the fisheries. Ask yourself, what have YOU DONE to help your fisheries? And you have to realize that posting on MuskieFIRST, complaining about all the out-of-staters fishing your waters is NOT a positive change inducing action. Other people have commented on this thread about how to HELP the situation, if you want to make things better, I would suggest you try to find a way to feel more positive towards positive actions.
*and Tommie, you are a TOTAL SLOB in my boat, I cant wait til I'm in your new ride. |
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I did MY OWN RESEARCH AND WORK!! I didn't ride the heals of other people for my knowledge.
...you can learn Webster, a whopping 745 total acres, in one day.
am i to take that as saying that "your own research and work" could be accomplished in one day?
the Governor just announced that the WI National Guard is being mobilized and will be shutting down the state borders beginning May 6th. the borders will again allow cars with non-WI license plates in after November 30th.
ok, that's it. i'm leaving.
and i'm taking my ball home with me.
Edited by lambeau 4/7/2005 1:48 PM
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Posts: 1086
| Definitely sad to see wasted/dead/mistreated fish floating or washed up to shore. However, even if not a single hook was thrown into the waters by mankind...some fish will still perish on their own from natural causes. Sure...more numbers probably die by the touched hands of man, but some are dying of natural causes as well. Some of the found dead fish, it'd be hard to what the reason of death was exactly...however, some are more obvious than others.
There's more muskies in these waters today than there ever has been. There's so many in these Indiana waters, that loosing a select few a year will help the others grow larger hopefully. There's so many in these waters that most will probably have their growth stunted by the sheer numbers/volume of predator fish that are in these waters.
Not all Muskies will reach trophy sizes. Some do by genetics, some don't. Just like some humans grow to be six feet tall or more...some don't. Some may reach a mature length of only 36" inches and be that exact length the rest of their lives. That's been proven. I believe there was just another article on this very same thing in one of the last couple of issues of Musky Hunter if I remember correctly.
Yes..education is key. I do think that there is quite a few more educated musky people out there than non-educated musky people fishing for these fish.
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| They are just fish! Get a grip! |
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| One thing that I always thought helped musky fishing pressure was that they were so darn hard to catch.
Every now and then you hear of some walleye guy catching a big one or some guy catching a 50 pounder
sitting on his dock but otherwise its usually a musky guy targeting them who catches them. Most people I have
met who are into muskies will CPR them.
Catch and Release among Musky anglers has to be a very high percentage I would assume. 90%+??? |
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Posts: 1335
Location: Chicago, Beverly | "70% of the plates I see are from Ill. and Ohio." must have been a lucky day.... 70% of the plates on 90% of the weekends I fish down there are IN plates(I fish from ice out to ice up), and at that how many of those are from Indy, Valpo or elsewhere?.... what does that matter anyways? I am a property owner on two lakes down there...where my plate is from doesn't mean anything..I have been fishing down there for about 34 yeares now...
With that said I also feel that most of the guys that do fish down there practice C&R and try their best at proper handling of the Muskies they catch. There are some down there that may still mishandle and/or intentionally or accidentally kill Musky, but the number of those guys is getting smaller each year.... It does suck that Bill, Todd, Mike and myself have all found dead fish this year. As for many of the fish caught through the ice, majority were caught by guys fishing for anything but Muskie... |
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Posts: 1887
Location: syracuse indiana | hey guest i do agree with you most of the guys i know that fish our lakes do practice cpr but there are alot that i know that fish bass and panfish on these lakes that do not know about it at all and also newbie's to muskie fishing may also not understand how to do it right. i have seen many boats out there with fish out of the water for way too long and have said something to them . i am not afraid to say it either. and as for the guides they are all teaching cpr and they all love the fish as mutch as we do. thats what keeps them in bussiness. i really did not want to start any crap about indiana or anything like what is going on in this post. we all love muskies and we all see these fish in all states that have them have their problems. we need to stick together and try to get the state dnr's to help us and our sport and most of all oue FISH. becouse without them we have no sport........bill |
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Posts: 38
Location: Michigan | With the delayed mortality studies coming out it is hard to say that these fish are not fish released by muskie fishermen, but with all the bass and panfish fishermen on those waters who knows... either way it still sucks. I can tell you this though that the Webster Lake Club has done a great job of educating all fishermen with their catch&release muskie signs at the launches and bait shops. As for the lakes being the "hot lakes" its a catch-22 with the tremendous job being done on stocking those waters there is always going to be a lot of attention to them. If there wasn't such a good fishery then you wouldn't have that problem. All you can do is just wait it out until the focus turns to some other water.
David Anderson |
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | You know as an "outsider" to these comments I see much of the problem being related to the fact that it is legal to fish with live bait in many lakes of the midwest. I live in Oregon and nowhere in this state or most neighboring states can you use live bait. Live bait creates all kinds of problems associated with the introduction of unwanted species in lakes and more related to this thread, increased mortality of deeply hooked fish. Eliminate the use of live bait and you will save many of your big fish.
Jed
www.bikinibaitcompany.com
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Hey "Tim"
I would like to have a civilized conversation with you. Please contact me at [email protected]
Also, if you really think that people like me are the cause of all the folks out there, think again. I have only been guiding a few years and over the past 3-4 years the pressure hasn't changed. Those lakes have been jammin with boaters for a long time now.
I look forward to your e-mail.
Thanks, |
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Location: Minneapolis, MN | David - The educational signs at the ramps were provided by the Hoosier club in Indianapolis. |
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Posts: 132
Location: Elkhart, IN | The "problem", if there is one, isn't the pressure from Musky fishermen. Unless you enjoy peace and quiet and need to be alone, that ain't gonna happen here, probably ever again. But then that would be over on any lake by May anyway. Even if none of the other boats are fishing. There are a bunch of recreational boats that come from everywhere.
The "problem" is non-Musky fishermen. There is a learning curve to dealing with these fish. I know there are a bunch of bass guys that keep every legal fish they catch and they are not very gentle with the ones they have to let go. There are a ton of people that read the local news papers and see the articles with big fish pictures in them and have no idea what they are doing. But they come out and fish, or at least try to. Those are the ones that probably do the most damage to the fishery. But eventually they will learn and get more involved or decide it's not for them. At 8 fish an acre the bubba bassers will never keep enough fish to hurt the fishery. They are fooling themselves. The areas experience with Musky will improve over time. Probably a lot of time. But, it will happen.
More water? Good luck with that. The DNR is concerned with expanding the fishery. They don't want the appearance of taking over the area and having the public turn against Musky.
Higher size limits? Good luck with that too. The DNR sees a Musky dying of old age as a waste of the resource.
Can the fishing be better here? Probably, at least for big fish. I used to get all worked up about this stuff. I finally decided it wasn't worth it. What is the point of me getting myself all riled up about stuff I cannot change. I joined a club. I am on the board. I do what I can to help. If everyone did just a little maybe the fishery would expand and higher size limits would be a reality. But they are both an up hill battle that will take time and effort from a lot of people.
Side note - Wow, Slamr is calling Tom a slob? Kinda like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it? Tom sorry bud but it must be true. Let me know the next time you fish with Slamr. I'm sending you a gallon of red kool-aid!!
Brian
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Posts: 38
Location: Michigan | Luke,
I stand corrected, but none the difference is what a great job that the Hoosier club signs are doing to help educate. |
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Posts: 1335
Location: Chicago, Beverly | The Webster Club IS putting signs up, but at some different lakes as the Hoosier club already took care of Barbee, webster and Tippy. However, the Hoosier clubs needs to do maintenace on some of the signs, the one at the Kuhn ramp needs a new plexiglass window. |
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| The only reason those lakes have muskies are to eat shad. The DNR will keep pumping in muskettes till dooms day. With 0% natural reproduction what will closed seasons or no ice fishing protect? You want to something sick, I can show you a lake that got a 1 time stocking of left over musky from the DNR and the dumb### bass and bluegill fishermen kill as many musky as they can. How much of that is going on at Webster?
Edited by pete_k 4/9/2005 11:10 AM
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Posts: 1887
Location: syracuse indiana | well since my family run the pic-a-spot campground. we have seasonals that are only bass and panfisherman. i hear this all the time. THOSE D$%%$$M MUSKIES ARE EATING OUR FISH and alot more. i keep up trying to teach them all that i can but they dont listen . i have actually taken some of them out and they have cought fish. and now have come to enjoy fishing for them and have learned how to handle them and release them right. but i feel the problems we have with this is regular fisherman that dont care. and i am sure some have cought musky and seen what they had and cut the line or had a break off. and thats not good either. all we can do is to keep trying to educate on cpr on our fish....bill |
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