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Posts: 13
Location: Port Severn, Georgian Bay, Ontario |
I am about to start making my own wooden lures. Could use feedback on if you have ever had a screw eye pull out. This is not an attempt to restart the wire through construction vs the use of screw eyes controversy. Just looking for advice.
Some commercial lures use cotter pin like attachments for the hooks. Then they use a small diameter screw eye, that looks a bit too short to me, to create the line attachment point on the lure. This does not give me confidence in this method. Hang the individual hooks with real hardware and then count on a tiny screw eye to hold onto the whole lure????
With this method of lure construction in mind, I wonder how many of you guys have had a lure ripped off, finding nothing on the end of your line but the screw eye?
Thanks,
Lock 45
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Put some strong epoxy on your screw eyes before putting them in.
Another hint.... if you are going to pour any weight into your wooden bodies, put a small screw in the whole that you wish to fill. That way when the lead cools, it attatches to the screw that you put in the bait. No more weights falling out of baits!!! Easy fix to a common problem.
Edited by MikeHulbert 3/11/2005 11:19 AM
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| Seen too many screw eyes fall out of the nose of Jackpots.
That's why I wag the Weagle now !!! |
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Posts: 354
| I have heard, but not seen, the same thing about the Jackpots. One guy I know lost a
large fish with a screw eye which pulled out. I also had a friend lose a very large fish on
Eagle Lake w/ a Bobbie Bait that had a cotter pin pull right through the bait. I had a relatively small fish break a cotter pin on a Suick. This was only a 39" fish.
Bill C. |
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Posts: 1046
| Alot of it comes down to what type wood you are using, the harder the material the less lenght and diameter eyes you need. Like a jackpot or bagleys that is large grain wood and I beleive the eyes they use are to small, to short! I have never had a screweye come out that was properly installed. Most times bigger/longer is better and no need to glue if you use a pilot hole cause as you thread you remove most of the adhesive anyway! |
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| Not only have I had screw eyes pull out of jackpots, but I have also had the eyes open up on a thrashing fish and bye,bye musky with treble hook burried in jaw. Now if I were to buy another jackpot, not only would I epoxy the hangers in the wood, but I would first replace them with a heavier duty eye. |
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Posts: 1137
Location: Holly, MI | I have not had any come out on home made lures either. I do like the larger diameter longer ones. If the bottom hook location of the body bait isn't thick enough for a long screweye then put it in at an angle. As the handyman said, pre drill your holes with a drill that is slightly smaller than the base diameter of the screw eye. I'm not sure this is clear, i mean the smaller diameter of the screw eye if it didn't have the threads sticking out. If you don't pre drill them you are just displacing the wood smashing a hole open and it will not be as strong. Also in hard wood it will split your lure and all the work is shot. I do not glue mine in either. |
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Location: The Yahara Chain | I had a screw eye pull out on a Hawg Wobbler. The fish wasn't that big, about 38". |
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Posts: 1046
| One other point, there is maintenance to all baits, like was said about hawggies, check for gaps or spreading and re-bend when needed! Thats part of having your equipment in order! |
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Posts: 358
Location: London, England | If you put the screw eyes in at an angle, i.e. not in line with the direction the pull force will be applied on, there is the added mechanical strength and you're not just relying on the threads and or epoxy to hold the screw eye in the bait. |
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Posts: 46
| Drill a hole in the wood perpendicular to the screweye that will expose the threads after it has been installed, then fill that hole with epoxy once the screweye is installed so the expoxy surrounds the shaft/threads. You won't be able to get it out, ever. |
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Posts: 13
Location: charleston wv | I think it depends on the wood you are using. If you put a long screw eye in a hardwood like maple and put 2 ton epoxie(available @ Wal-Mart) on the threads a gorilla could not pull it loose. I use wire for my baits but it is more for tradition than function. I do not believe you can pull a screw eye from cedar either if the bait is using the same finish that I am using. The Jacpot and Hawg Wobbler do not use the same type of finish and HRS, Cobbs, and I use. Hughes River baits are cedar. Anyone ever had the rear hook holder or the front line tie come loose? If they have I have never heard about it. I would not use eyes on basswood or balsa however. I experimented with the 2 woods and eyes did not work well in them. |
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | Most all salmon plugs use screw eyes and generally the eyes are half the size of those used on musky baits. For those who have caught a 30 pound chinook you know what kind of pressure I am talking about. I have yet to see a screw eye come loose while fighting a salmon but have seen split rings straightened and hooks break.
If a guy fishes long enough he will probably see about everthing once. But that being said, the screw eyes used on most all musky baits are quite large. I would bet a guy could lift a world record musky out of the water on most musky-sized screw eyes. And then if we consider a properly adjusted reel drag, the buoyancy of the water, and the use of a net once the fish gets close to the boat, the pressure on an individual screw eye is dramatically reduced.
This would be an interesting experiment to test!
RM |
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Thank you very much for all the suggestions and comments you guys have given me.
Upon searching through a few lure parts supply catalogs, I do notice some stainless steel screw eyes with a diameter of .092". These seem to be available in 1-1/4", 1-1/2" and even 2" long.
I will play around with pilot hole sizes and do some serious static hanging weight tests so see if the screw eyes will pull out. My first test will be white eastern Cedar and clear white pine. I will go into the end grain. This will simulate the nose or line attachment screw eye. This one, and the rear hook eye will be the ones I worry about.
Again, thanks to all and keep those comments and suggestions coming.
Lock 45
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | I'll promise you that you won't pull them out Lock. Take a small screw eye, maybe one from an old rapala you have laying around. The twist the screw into a pre-drilled hole in a piece of wood and try to pull it out. I have pulled on them so hard that the loop on the screw began to straighten but the screw itself never moved. If put in properly screw eyes are incredibly strong.
RM |
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Posts: 141
| He`s right you wont pull them out, I have made hundreds of lures and never had one pull out, I pilot the hole with a very fine bit and use 1" or 1 1/2" inch screw eyes just make sure they are Stainless Steel and not Brass and you will be fine. |
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | I follow the exact same process Dave does.....no problems!
RM |
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Posts: 294
Location: Sakatchewan,Canada | I have had a pike that was over 20lb pull out a eye screw and escape!
I would always go with wire through construction.The bait that had the eye pull out was a 12" Bobbie Giant.  |
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Posts: 4266
| Everything that is man-made will fail from time to time....that's just the way it is. I have never had a screw eye pull out, but I have had one open up.
Like others have said, pilot holes are mandatory if you want your eyes to be in the proper place. I have gotten in to the habit lately of brushing Envirotex on my eyes and screwing them in right before I clear coat the lure. It's an epoxy, right? I don't know if it's a needed step, but as long as it's mixed up and sitting there, I figure that I can put a bit on the length of the screw right before I put in the screw and coat the lure.
As long as we are on the subject of screweyes, have you ever been in the boat with a guy that gives them all an extra turn "just to be sure they are tight." I've seen this guy screw them in, and screw up the clear coat on lures by doing this. If the eye is a little off center or askew, I'm sure that you can straighten it a little to tune the lure, but I watched him put 2 full turns on the front eye of a Cobb one time, and it totally screwed up the top coat and by the end of the day the nose was peeling. He complained about the quality of the lure, I told him that he was the one causing the problem. When I clear coat a glider, I intentionally put it on thick and let it settle over the eyes. Besides a thick finish, I believe it helps surround the screw eye hole, a perfect place for water to get in. When my lures dry, I have to drill out the eye holes. If you put a full turn on those screw eyes, I guarantee you will screw up the clear coat.
How many of you makers use those little "grommet" things like Cady uses on his lures and I believe Phantom does too? Are they there to bury themselves into the clearcoat and make the connection stronger, or is there another reason?
Beav |
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | Beav,
I have always felt those rings like you find on the Phantoms a nice "finished look" but I would guess they do little to keep out the water. As you know, if there is the tiniest of an opening water will find its way in. I think too that Phantom installs the screw eyes after the baits is done, at least the two I own were constructed in this manner. This makes using that ring a whole lot easier.
For those who might be trying to move the screw eyes on a finished bait please do not! If you twist the screw eye with the clear coat on it you run the risk of breaking the seal at that point and allowing water to enter the bait...not a good thing.
Getting back to the thread subject, I agree with Mark entirely. If you are using a very soft wood, basswood, western red cedar, balsa, etc., I would be worried about a musky pulling the eye out...a bass no, a musky yes! With harder woods, maple, eastern red cedar, mahogany, etc., there is absolutely no concern whatsoever.
Kind Regards,
Jed V.
Bikini Bait Co.
Edited by RiverMan 5/22/2005 11:11 AM
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Posts: 294
Location: Sakatchewan,Canada | Let me rephrase my earlier statement.Any bait that is 12" and bigger should be wire through.When huge muskie or pike get a hold of a bait this large they have a incredible amount of leverage to throw the bait.This can turn ugly if the fish thrash's against the side of the boat with the huge lure and rips out the eye screw's.
Edited by Pike Master 5/22/2005 1:18 PM
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| If you are using a .092 ss, there is no way to pull it out period, especially if an clear coat is applied. The jackpot screweyes can not be compared to a properly pre-drilled .092. The pull strength on your screw eye is much more than your line, rod, knots ect.......
Pikemaster, make some baits with .092 and you will change your mind. |
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Posts: 294
Location: Sakatchewan,Canada | Ask Rolf Balansiak(the best bait maker on the planet)about why you need wire through construction.Trolling huge lures for huge fish and banging the lures off rocks on the bottom are a couple of reasons i can think of.Georgian Bay is murder on lures.
Edited by Pike Master 5/23/2005 12:04 AM
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Posts: 656
Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | In the,"For whatever it's worth catagory," there's some old In-Fisherman video clip in which James Linder loses a fish at boatside when the belly hook pulls out of a Bagleys 6inch Bang O B crankbait.
Someone above said he wouldn't worry so much about the belly hooks so long as the line tie and rear screweye were solid. I will disagree with him because it seems that most of the fish are caught on the front hook as muskies usually target the head of their prey. I could be wrong but it seems to make sense.
Edited by fishpoop 5/23/2005 2:19 AM
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Posts: 4266
| I don't think that DB-6's are made very well to begin with. Small screw eyes, balsa wood= potential failure. Great bass lures, but not my first choice for muskies unless you are going to lighter tackle.
I'm not going to argue about who the greatest lurebuilder on the planet is, and yes, trolling can beat the hell out of lures......but I bet that I can hook a lure made with screw eyes to Cady's belt and spool up with 300# line and keep him from making it to the bar. Of course I'll need a fighting chair to sit in 
I say ....whatever...... Every saltwater lure that I looked at in the BPS catalog was made with stainless screw eyes. All of the lures that they sell for Peacock bass have screweyes, and those fish could bite a Suick in half! Think those lures take a beating? When properly installed, I have all the faith in the world in screw eyes. If I limited myself to lures with through wire construction, I wouldn't have many lures....except maybe my bucktails.
Beaver
Edited by Beaver 5/23/2005 2:48 PM
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Posts: 236
| For those who make baits with .092 ss this argument is not an argument at all. Pikestalker if this is how you feel I coulkd care less but I'm trying to point out the wrong assumptions to the new anglers so they don't need to pay more money for thru-wire.
Replace all your screw-eyes with .092 1.5" screws and then try to rip them out. Your gonna need a chevy in 4 wheel drive.
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Posts: 294
Location: Sakatchewan,Canada | Who is Pikestalker?Yea i am sure that this Pikestalker guy doesn't really care about your opinions either MuskieBum. |
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| everyone forgets the wood used. if they are pine forget it. it does not hold screw eyes vry well. if the bait is pre-drilled you should never have one pulled out. once again overkill in the musky world. 200lb snaps 150lb line what next boat winches for reels. maybe many have never heard theres a drag system on your reels |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | If your using .092 screw eyes you don't need epoxy to add to the strenght of the bait. An epoxy won't really do anything in a wood screw thread to wood application. Wood is too weak to create a good bond with epoxy. The wood can break away easily.
What epoxy does, is create a waterproof barrier between the pilot hole and wood. For those that install hardware after the hardcoat, epoxy or superglue is required to keep the water tight seal. If you hardcoat after hardware is installed, don't worry about it.
But then again... |
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Posts: 236
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Edited by MuskieBum 5/25/2005 12:04 AM
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