|
|
Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Looking at the Mike James Boat Count thread got me thinking. Do you think that big entry fee tournys are losing they're appeal?
Rollie and Hellen's tournys have'nt filled so far this year and because of that they had to pull out of Ranger's sponsorship.
PMTT events dont seem to fill to the brim, I know they were asking for boats for the Eagle River Chain
The 2 day Pewaukee. Okauchee, Labelle WMT was wide open
The first Iron Man was open
The Minnesota Musky Trail was cancelled (albeit not because of lack of interest)
Mike James still is'nt full
Is it because of the money needed to gain entry or is it because Musky tournys draw the "best of the best" and new guys are intimidated by Imhoff/Baily and Hillman/Sweik winning all the time? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | GMG,
Speaking solely for myself here. I like to fish a tournament or two a year. The competition is what gets me going for them. But after fishing one or two that is enough. Again remember I am speaking solely for myself, but I need time on the water that is purely for my enjoyment. After fishing a couple of tournaments and guiding, the "me time" becomes very important. This is when I do my experimenting with new baits, new tactics and new lakes. I truly love the experimental time of musky fishing and the time to do this is not when I am guiding or fishing a tourney.
I think there are a number of people that have the same feelings I do taking away from the "pool" of tournament fishers. At the same time there are more and more tourneys popping up. The obvious result is less than full fields and possibly some that will just fade away.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 544
Location: Alsip, Il | I have only fish fun tournaments by Muskie Inc. I would like to fish PMTT, but because of time and a little because of expense, I would be able to maybe fish only one or two. I wouldn't be intimatedated (spelled wrong) by the best of the best, because too many PMTT tournaments are won with only one or two mid-thirty inch fish, which gives everyone a chance, this was seen a couple of times on Cave Run. Al |
|
| |
|
Posts: 691
Location: nationwide | I will begin with my disclaimer about this being my feelings only also. The reason I fish the tourneys I do is for the chance to fish with a small group of friends and without those individual tourneys we may not fish together each year. The tourneys we fish are relatively low dollar and low key. We have found that the bigger the money the bigger the $**holes the tournaments attract and our group is not really into intense competition. We regularily fish the Hayward Lakes October tournament and a couple of the guys have commented that the $55.00 entry this year seems to be getting a little out of hand and have posed the question of still going up there to fish at the same time as the tournament but not entering and saving the group the $55.00 per person and/or just having a 25 dollar per person pool for largest fish for the three day weekend. I guess for a fun tournament to cost that much seems odd - probably just me though. I also think the market is saturated, so to speak, in regards to musky tournaments and that could also be attributing to many of them not getting filled. So I guess I would say for me they have lost their appeal due to the monies involved and time away from the family. Maybe I am just getting old and like to fish with friends in a non-competitive arena, not sure.
Corey Meyer |
|
| |
|
Posts: 184
Location: Rockford Il 61108 | Hey guys, Yeah tournaments dont seem to be filling up,especially Rollie and Helens. The Ranger ordeal wasnt Rollie and Hellens fault. Ranger along with their coharts were being babies about start locations. They wanted our starting point to be at one place due to advertising reasons. Many of the men were wild that they couldnt start on Lake tomahawk. Ranger wouldnt budge and therefore pissed everyone off. Ranger pulled out, because of there sissy whining. Its too bad when corporate functions seem to overtake the reality of why we fish Muskie. For the thrill and beauty. |
|
| |
|
| I don't see the appeal of the tournament to begin with. In fact, if I know there will be a lot of other muskie fishermen on a given lake, I'll stay as far away as possible. There's just something about sitting on a good spot with four other boats within casting distance that takes all the fun out of the fishing. It makes me feel like I'm at one of those state fair trout ponds.
At the same time, there's something great about fishing an out of the way lake, where the fish haven't seen a lure in weeks. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1310
Location: Washington, PA | I love state fair trout ponds.........."I get em all the time" |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2089
| Your state fair has a trout pond?Cool! Steve |
|
| |
|
Posts: 10
| I think the 2 mega events, ( Mike James & SF Muskie Classic) have wiped out a few muskie budgets this year. Just the entry fee for those 2 events is $3800!
To fish the whole PMTT is a "mere" $1800. Now if a team decides to fish both mega's, the PMTT trail, maybe a Hartman or 2 , your looking at over $6000 just in entry fees.
On top of that lets add lodging, gas, food, live bait, ( just kidding about the live bait), and your looking at some mucho denaro!
On top of that lets figure out how much vacation time a guy needs to fish them all.
Figure in travel time, ( MN to KY, KY to MN, MN to IL....) or travel days. Plan on atleast 2 days prefishing. Your looking at spending a minimum of 17 days, of course this will vary depending on where you live and how fast you can drive.
Now you have to have a partner this the same amount of vacation time and commitment. You both need VERY understanding wives or no wife because your using all your vacation time and extra $$$'s on tournaments.
I can't figure out why these darn things aren't filling up either?????
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 66
Location: Wales Wi. | Last week I had our anual kids fishing tournament..way more fun. I gave up fishing tournys years ago. All the volunteers who bring there boats (some are tourny guys) said it was alot more fun. Something about getting back to the basics and not having big money involved makes a tourny more fun in my opinion. Howie. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 155
Location: Watertown MN | I do think the tourny's have lost some of their appeal, people were excited about the start of the PMTT trail, great attendance. But who is making money fishing these tourny's, even the 2 big winner's Imhoff/bailley, schweik etc. take there expences,pay taxes they probably made a little money. If you don't win you are losing money unless you got great sponsors, and I think a lot of people are realizing this and not fishing as many big events. I think the PMTT is going to have to be more like PWT in that a top ten finish gets you home with some money in the pocket after expense. I fished 1 PMTT event, had fish that would have put us in top 10 jump off the board, would have lost money with 7th place finish. They are great to fish, great learning experience, but you are giving up alot of personal time, could be on better water, and don't count on making money in the musky world, maybe why some musky guys are doing walleye trails!
Good luck
Troyz
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 114
Location: Tomahawk, Wi | As far as Rollie & Helens Tourny you should actually get your facts straight before you post.  |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4266
| Let's face it guys, muskie fishing is just plain tough.
Bass and walleye tournaments can count on numerous fish being caught every day, and patterns for catching fish will generally hold up throughout the tourney.
Muskie fishing is a whole lot tougher.
It's like having a bowhunting contest. Are you willing to plunk down the pesos to bet that you can stick one during a two day time frame? The odds of winning a muskie tournament are far higher than the odds of winning other tourneys are.......at least that's my opinion.
I like playing poker, but I won't plunk down my hard earned cash and gamble that I'll catch a fish to win any tournament.
I did catch a 48 on Cass 2 years ago less than 24 hours after 160 PMT teams left the lake.
It's a roll of the dice any way you look at it.
Risk/reward, and are you willing to gamble?
Beav |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Mr Scheaffer...it was told to my by 3 different people (who fish R&H's events annually) that R&H's had to pull out of the agreement with Ranger due to the fact that the three tournys did not have enough of a sign up prior to a specific date, thus R&H's would have been left with paying on Ranger boats.
Now, if this is'nt the case and you know differently, please fill us in.
With Ranger or without, both events have'nt filled out.
Edited by Gander Mt Guide 8/18/2004 5:34 PM
|
|
| |
|
| I don't think tourny's have lost appeal. I do believe that with so many now, that th
5b4
e tournament anglers are just more spread out. The two tourny's I have been involved with in one way or another, Rollie's and the PMTT, are class acts.
My $.02
J.Sloan |
|
| |
|
| Ok' you guys sucked out my $.02 too. I have been fishing tournaments and alot for the past few years. My pocket book shows. I have to admit its the adrenline rush of competing against the areas best guides and fisherman. The money draws me like a fly to sh.. However. I am learning that for me to make any money is going to be #*^@ near impossible unless I take first in a few tournaments. The payback drops so fast after first place that your lucky to pay for gas and lodging . I was charged to go fish for $100,000.00 at the Mike James tournament until I found out the chance at $100,000.00 might not happen due to lack of participation.
If big tournaments are going to survive we need sponsors to help. How do we get sponsors? Show them where the value is in having them put money out. What do they get from dropping some coin?
I for one will probably not fish another big tournament of this magnitude unless it is gauranteed! $100,000.00. Unless I have a sugar mamma IE-Sponsor.
P.S.
What ever happened to the nice frabil nets or the g-loomis rods that they gave away last year at some of these tournaments . Starts to make you wonder.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 114
Location: Tomahawk, Wi | Gander Mt Guide.. You heard right. Sorry I guess I should of explained the reason in my last reply. 
Edited by B.Schaeffer 8/18/2004 7:10 PM
|
|
| |
|
| Dont discount gas prices has a factor,,,People have less money to throw around |
|
| |
|
| TOURNAMENT...interesting enough, this intriguing term, which derived it's name during the Dark Ages, can be associated w/ a number of other words listed in order on page 399 in the new updated and revised edition of the New Webster's Dictionary, which also includes Roget's Thesaurus, and a Medical Dictionary w/in it's thrilling confines.
Oddly enough, the term "tournament" was first referred to as a "mock fight, a common form of contest @ entertainment in medival times; any sports competition or championship." One can almost begin to feel the tension here, thus allowing the original definition full reign. A dillegent reader will clearly see the rise and fall of the sparring of the various posters...
As the discussion becomes more heated in nature, the word directly below the definition of "tournament" begins to link itself w/in the post, that word being "tourniquet". This term is defined as a "surgical devise for arresting hemmorage by compression of a blood vessel, or as a bandage tightened by twisting", which can certainly be correlated to the post, depending on the temperment of the posters. Even more amazing is the fact that the word listed directly below tourniquet also can be directly linked to the 2 words mentioned above. The term "tousle", which means to make untidy by pulling, as in hair; to dishevel, can certainly be tied into the post, and is a potential possibility unless cooler heads prevail...
After careful study of the above terms, me hope is that mellow minds will insue, and that Jiffy Pop will be found in homes across the midwest... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 87
| Time and money. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 4266
| Sponger, you haven't lost a step.
Send me your new e-address.
I also have something to send to you if you're still a bonafide field tester.
Beav |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2089
| Good question, best answered by the individual. I've got an idea!Have some of the trails/events , unite into a bonafide force.Generate more sponsor interest($$$$)by having EVERY event/tourney draw the top fishermen/women in the biz.Make the entry fee enough to where the top finishers will walk away with some cash after expenses and Sammy.I don't fish a lot of tournaments, only a chosen few.I like the chance to win cash, but moreso, the CHALLENGE of catching a few slimy beasts within a specified timeframe(typically less than ideal conditions).Throw in a couple hundred great sticks trying to do the same thing and it's a freakin rush!Kinda like walking out of the tunnel in college and seeing 75,000 people in the stadium.GAME TIME!!!!But on the other hand, spending a quiet day/evening on/in a quiet area of the lake is a rush too.Different kind.Soooo many issues with tournies these days.Lots of work to be done , but in my opinion, there are some real good things happening.I've been around a few this year with the MuskieFirst media crew(Slamr and I) and have been impressed.Good people all around, that's why I don't understand the proverbial cloud that is constantly overhead.All I know is that I'm presently working on my MOJO for the Vermilion tourney.I have seen a Sage from out east(Pennsylvania) and he has imparted me with the MOJO.I will also spend some time with Yoda(Cady) in Minnesota working in the shop making those wood things.They too have the MOJO.I'll be pretty useless probably a week or so before.In the Zone.Big game. Kinda like Sept. 25th, when my beloved Hawks invade the Big House.Shock the World!!!!!!! Steve
Edited by Steve Jonesi 8/19/2004 1:31 AM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 1137
Location: Holly, MI | I would love to participate in a Muskie Tournament.
Being an amature with just enough knowledge to be dangerous and Muskie being as un predictable as they are I would not be afraid to go up against the pros. I can never find out about any tourneys on Lake St Clair here locally. I hear about them after the fact in the fishing reports or in the paper. Most of the tourneys here are all invite only or private : (. I think they are afraid to let me in, ha ha. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | I never ever meant to make any tournament or sponsor look like they were'nt doing thier job by lack of promoting or working on these events. Rollie and Hellen's is like a second home for me and by no means does the mess with Ranger boats imply that they're tournys are nothing less than first rate! The average Pro Staffer lasts 2 years, I'm sure sponsors come and go alot more frequently. With Ranger stepping aside, other dealers and manufactuers get the opportunity to step up, which I'm sure they will!
I agree with Rick, this is'nt a sport you're going to get rich at, even with a Pro Staff deal that gives you tourny money, odds are they are'nt paying your whole ride. To fish an entire trail like the WMT(whichs Tom does a great job at keeping it very very reasonable), your talking (just for 1 partner's half) close 2000.00 in entry fees alone(albeit, you're getting 13 tournys for that money). Gas, vacation time, food (beer and Old Fashion mix) and lodging...probally close to 5-8 grand....What will the return be??? The fix of competition?...The chance for a big payday for a huge fish? The chance for that Trophy/Money?
Here's why I do it. Because every single cast means something, the anticipation, the feel of adrenaline rushing through my body when I suddenly feel my lure stop, feeling the hair on my arms stand up when I see a musky boatside, the emotion of having to release a shorty, but the main reason for me is the fun. I'd much rather pay 150.00 for my half of a WMT than go to a casino and piss it away.....sure tournament angling is a gamble, but I feel I get my money's worth. |
|
| |
|
| My wife lets me do it in hopes of cashing in the big check also.
She has a hell of an insurance policy on me. If I ever win the big one I'm sure to have a heart attack.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | You need to tell Bill to get a job....it's gotta be expensive hauling him around! |
|
| |
|
| After speaking to some of the teams not in p.m.t.t this year I have come to this conclusion (they did not want to make the trip to N.Y. for an invitational so why fish them then.
And yes some are fishing just the mega events and its pretty costly. Time off of work another factor.
I also believe the w.m.t is hurting the p.m.t.t., go do the math and you will see why. Fish for 10 grand against 60 teams or 150 (full field p.m.t.t for 20 grand. Odds are better fishing againt the smaller field. Less travel expense and time off work.
P.m.t.t. needs to get sponsor money to increase the payouts and also pay down more then 12 places to attract anglers.
I fish them and have a ball. Its a great time but I am one of them that has done the math and may switch to w.m.t. I hear they are very well run also. I have no complaints really about the p.m.t.t and as said I enjoy them but the travel is getting old. In fact as we sit in 35th place we may pass on the last one to fish as we really do not want to go to new york. Too much time off and added travel expense.
I do like fishing them however and its really a great bunch of guys. Maybe I'm getting old!!!!! For those of you fron n.Y. nothing against the lake or state itself.
So many tournaments to fish so little time and money says it all I think! I hope all of the tournaments do well as I thik its helps bring musky fishing to the front page so to speak.
Don Pfeiffer
|
|
| |
|
| Don,
That was the same reason both my partner and I had about the P.M.T.T. Travel, Payout,Entry fee.
A few more of my friends said the same thing.
I love the P.M.T.T.
Again it goes back to getting more sponsorship to reduce the burden on the fisherman. I'm a little disappointed that the tournament at Cass lake looks like they will not have a full field. The worst part is not knowing what the purse will be until I get up there.
The W.M.T has done a great job. They to need to work on the payout for the top 10.
Sounds like were in it for the money? We are . lets face it. Its part of what draws us. That and to be known as the best. Its human nature. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Just a side note...........the WMT has grown about 300% in anglers since it's inception. So even though thier 2 day tournys may not draw a full field, the WMT is drawing more and more every season. |
|
| |
|
| Hey guys, can someone help me out here? The WMT, is this the same trail that everyone was complaining about, with the tournaments in warm summer months, transporting fish being basically maditory, playing with the DNR rules & changing to pike once you caught a musky and so on, etc. If so, what have they done to change? Why are they now run great?
If nothing has changed, then why are they growing. Why would people support these WMT events? If they are increasing in participation, do people just care less for the fish and our resource? If they are growing because of convinence and less travel then others (like pmtt) then this is pretty selfish.
Just curious. Maybe they are run differently now and this is all a mute point. |
|
| |
