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| Ok Guys, Lets find out what makes black lures tick at the night bite. Any ideas as to why? Thanks to a friend of mine across the pond, I've been able to do more research into this particular area as well as others. As a Lure painter, I am always researching how color combos work in order to bring out the best of the beast.
Stan |
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| It sillouettes the best and is actually more visible. That is from what i have heard/seen. |
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| What we see when we look at the sky is reversed from under the water... that is a bright sky for us appears as a dark background to the fish, and a dark sky (be it overcast or after dark) appears as a bright background. This is where the dark colours on dark days and bright colours on bright days originates. Black, brown, navy blue and purples will all take fish under low light conditions because they produce the best silhouette. This applies most appropriately when you are fishing baits closer to the surface. If you're fishing deep water, you're likely better off sticking with a match the hatch in clear water or flourescents in stained waters under all light conditions.
Steve Wickens |
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| Steve, that was the clearest explanation I've ever heard. I've often wondered about this, too. Good job! |
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| I would have to say the sillouette. Years ago some friends of mine went under water and then some one casted baits over them. They said that the black stood out the best by far.
As a lure painter you should be happy that black is so popular, It is nice and simple to paint! |
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| Strike-Zone hit the nail on the head when it comes to why black is so good. I do also recommend nickel blades, for my success rate has been alot higher at night as compared to floresent blades. The moonlight gives the nickel blades a good flash.
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| Wahoooo!- MuskieFIRST rocks! This is what it's all about- thanks guys![:bigsmile:] |
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| Just want to confirm what the others have said. In addition to being a Muskie Junkie I am also a certified Divemaster and have many hours logged under water during all light conditions including night diving.
Yes Black does "stick-out" at night.
I rarely dive in heavily stained water unless I'm involved in a recovery (limited vis.) but I can tell you that during the day even in stained water black is a very strong contrast. At night in stained water, Vibration and surface noise (hawg-wobblers, big blades, etc.)will help you to "ring the dinner bell" when visibility is very limited.
Just my observations from 15+ years of diving experience.
Mark Hintz
Northwoods Esox Adventures
Eau Claire, WI |
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| Bill, You are absolutely correct in that I should be happy black works so well as it is easy to paint, and I am, but there is also the daylight bite to consider.
Strike Zone did well but it gets much more technical than that. Mark H, your on track also as are others. Jlong where are you? You'd love this one. Will wait for a few more answers then we will see if we can all reach a mutual conclusion to the "Night Bite"..
Stan |
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| I suppose if I had to choose what school I'm from... it would have to be the bright day, bright bait.... dark day, dark bait theory. Strike Zone explains why this is so.
When it comes to night fishing, I think many people rule out FLASH as an alternative. An oversight if you ask me. Black bucktails and topwaters are great since they have vibration and, to some extent, sound to attract fish to the lure. In this situation all you need is good contrast to provide a target... and black does well for this.
Personally, I'm usually night fishing on clear water. In these situations, there is plenty of light to use for flash as an attractant. Secondly, I feel fish in extremely clear water situations are predominantly sight feeders anyway so visually stimulating them rather than shakin' them up seems to be more productive. With that said, I incorporate a lot of white into my night fishing lure colors.... especially if there is any moonlight.
Black, white, etc. are all good night colors.... you simply need to consider HOW you want to use them.
jlong |
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| jlong,
Thanks for mentioning the white/clear water/moonlight theory. Again thinking back to my diving experiences......My friend who owns the dive shop used to wear a pair of white fins for years as to be able to tell him apart more easily from the other divers. Much of the night diving I have done over the years has been in very clear water. Thinking back those white fins were easy to see at night too.... even in 15-20 feet of water.. Good point.
I agree with them feeding primarily on site when the water conditions dictate. Sometimes even in clear water they just can't resist the "clackity-clack" of a Hog Wobbler though. Hmmm...think'n I just might paint the belly of one white????????
Kinda sounds like the whole thing is "Black n White" to me. [:praise:]
Good thread guys....
Mark Hintz
Northwoods Esox Adventures
Eau Claire, WI
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| Glad this came up.... always heard people say "down here" that a full moon kept fish down. Went 2 years ago on a small lake that has mainly stripers but an occasional musky is caught. We ended up w/ 23 stripers + 1 lost musky....bait- Red Fin, Red head, white body. Come to find out a buddy of mine slayed fish on that bait during full moon/clear water...said he hoped everyone believed that stripers hated light. Found out to like Mark said that a Hawg Wobbler also is hard to beat. personal experience: dark baits/steady noise AND flash both work in clear water. I think bright artificial light causes fish to be leary at times especially bigger ones but soft moonlight really seems to put some romance into fishing![:sun:] |
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| Frank
I should think they painted the underside of planes black so they wouldn't show up as well when the searchlights were trained on them.
Good fishing
Tim |
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| Guys, we are putting to much thought into this question. I think that there are mainly two reasons that baits are painted the way they are: 1) tradition and 2)the color patterns are those which us fishermen will consistantly purchase.
Think about it, remember the colors of the baits in the bargain bins at any sports shop? It is only "odd-ball"
colors that are there, that tells the business world what you will buy only at a discount. More than we may want to believe marketing drives the fishing business! |
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| The short answer is:
Black represents the 'vacuum' of all color, white the availability of all. Color does not exist without light underwater, so looking for a 'color' sillouette against an unlit sky with the prism of water as a medium...Black is ALWAYS available, and can be seen by the fish. If the night is moonlit and the moon high enough to make a difference, white, or chartruese may be the better choice.(These will show up as grey against a weirdly lit background)
If one is not sure what color to throw, throw black.[:)] |
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| I would think on a dark nite, no moon or man made lighting, the color would be irrelevant. The only thing the fish would see is the silhouette of the bait. Since there is no available light to relect off the lure to the fishes eye, white, black, or flourescent pink would all appear as black. Now, if we could just find a fish to tell us what they see. [:devil:] |
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| Just testing a reply as I've tried several times to post replies to this forum. Should it work I'll be back.
Stan |
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| Damn I think I got it. Here goes.
Guys,
White or light colors on the back of baits is an old idea but makes some color combos look tacky and would'nt sell well.Also few fish have a white back and could be good reasoning behind the process but I do agree with the subject.
Sworral, You hve the black/white theory backwords abit. BLACK is the presence of all colors while WHITE is the absence of all colors, however, white shows up very well under water as it gathers light well.
A person or fish looking up from under water has a 97 degree vision of the sky. Outside of that 97 degrees you will see the refection of the bottom or the coloration of the body of water depending on the depth.
All light coming on the water from the sky is condensed into 97 dgrees. For that reason a dimly lit night sky appears to be very bright when under water.
The dimly lit scattered light from the night skyis condensed into 1/4 the space.
That is why black lures are easy to see agaisnt the night sky as Mark H has said.
Stan |
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| Hey Stan... remember you are a painter before you tell Mr. Worrall he is backwards. For you.... working with pigments black may mean the presence of all colors.... but that is only because the pigments absorbed all the available light making it black. White paint reflects all light... which is why it is bright. The light reflected from white pigments contains ALL colors. So, technically you and Steve are BOTH correct.... just one of you are talking in additive terms (light) and the other in subtractive terms (paint or pigments).
As for baits painted with a light back looking tacky... one simple way around that is to only paint a very thin line of black (say 1/4 inch) down the centerline, leaving the light colors of the sides exposed on top enough to see from a distance. Also, it is possible to use bright colors as the darker back. Just look at all the classic Rapala lures with bright backs (orange, chartruese, etc), flashy sides (gold, silver, pearl, etc), and my favorite... a white belly. Those classics have been selling like hot cakes for years.
Trying to make sense of color and applying it to musky fishing is fun.... but definitely not a sure thing. Hopefully everyone catches a monster this summer after dark... whether on a white, black or indifferent lure.
jlong |
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| Jlong,
You are so very correct. I tinker to much too, Got painting on my mind. Thank you for correcting me .
Mr. Worrall, I do hereby appologize as we are both correct in our terms. Never thought of it from your angle, must be sniffing to many fumes. Can we still be board friends and you promise not to cut my lines???
Stan |
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| Jlong,
You are so very correct. I tinker to much too, Got painting on my mind. Thank you for correcting me .
Mr. Worrall, I do hereby appologize as we are both correct in our terms. Never thought of it from your angle, must be sniffing to many fumes. Can we still be board friends and you promise not to cut my lines???
Stan[:p] |
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| Sorry for the double post as I goofed. Besides, I like the funny face thing.
Stan |
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| Jlong:
Exactly!! Was referring to reflected light.
Stan: I like the faces too, but there needs to be more of them to reflect the many moode muskie anglers are subjected to!! |
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| Hey Bob, sounds like you've read my article in Esox Angler[;)] . Those colors opposite one another on the color wheel are known as "complementary" colors. I've been using the same strategy as you with pretty good success.... although a good friend of mine has been proving many of my theories wrong[:blackeye:] .
Its always interesting to see how others approach "color" when musky fishing. As long as it gives us confidence... we are one step ahead.
jlong |
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| The challenge with orange is that it is made up of yellow and red, and after the prism effect of the water, may actually be appearing as nearly black, or grey/yellow. Difference is whether the primary color used was red, then add yellow to taste, or yellow, adding red. More of either on a percentage basis makes the lure dark, or light. The story is told by looking at the bait at dusk, against a dark background, with no direct light. The ''problem'' is amplified if the orange is undercoated with white and is florescent. Another variable is the direction the light is coming from, how much is reflected from the bottom, etc. Enough to drive a guy crazy.
Jason Lucas said it best, "dark day, dark lure, light day, light lure". I think Jlong proved that out with his research very nicely! |
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| Well I have troubled over this post ever since reading the first couple of entries and after much thought have come to the conclusion that the sky is ALWAYS a light background. Fish vision covers too much area to see the sky as a dark background. To do so would entail some type of tunnel vision that really does not exist. This rule is not absolute but to show the sky is a dark background during day you have to develop some pretty contrived conditions to demonstrate it as such. Mark me down as the not in agreement group. And alot of the color discussion is completely unsubstantiated, and not in agreement with my "Many Rules Of Musky Color" bait selection theory...And I like Jason Lucas, but face the facts, he had to put out a column every month... |
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| The sky/background is always a white/grey on a cloudy day. On a sunny day, from my diving experience, the sky, from the prism effect water has(breaks down light 'absorbing' longer wavelengths so red, for example, is rapidly gone)at 10' under average turbidity goes very quickly to a deep blue/violet. The situation where the bottom is reflected is under FAC seas, sun noon. As the sun rises to or sets from sun noon, much of the available light is reflected towards the horizon. |
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| There is no doubt that colour is an interesting topic. I think many of us would also agree that in many cases, the trick is getting it noticed. I have become a strong believer in contrasts rather than using uni-coloured baits (black being the rare exception). There is no base colour like jailbird that gets the job done. But there are many derivations of jailbird... and some of them have been around for a LONG time. We've got the red head with white body, the zebra pattern (Pete M.), and the strawberry or frog patterns - all making use of a contrasting spot or striping effect. Len Hartman was using almost exclusively, a striping effect on most of his deep-diving baits for many years. He liked standard jailbird, as well as a green & black and black & white versions. I am currently experimenting with a black and fl. orange version of jailbird.
I still believe that other than getting the fish to notice your bait, colour is something more directed at the angler than the fish. Use what you've got confidence in. If you get the bait in the right place and the fish are active, pink with purple pokadots and a bright yellow stripe will likely catch fish... although god knows that this is one horrendously ugly looking piece of hardware that resembles nothing alive or dead from this world.
[;)]
Steve Wickens
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| So let me get this straight....you take your light or dark colored lure (I don't know whether I'm being additive or subtractive but my wife[:kiss:] generally says I'm a pain[:p] )...chuck it way out there hoping the fish looking up at a dark/light/grey sky will actually find it interesting....hmmmmm....what color would you use in case of nuclear fallout with a radioactive skylight?????? And as you retrieve you pray that somehow the musky have read the complementary color scale and will find it good enough to ingest? This is getting WAY TOO hard guys....I'm just a simple trout fisherman. With nitecrawlers you just take the dang thing, thread it thru the hook and the fish eat it.....period! Now of course, you have the Nitrogreen stuff which will give your nitecrawlers a flourescent green color---so maybe it isn't as easy as I've always thought...sheesh.
Gotta go weed the garden (I wonder what color pattern plants see it....[:bigsmile:] ??).
BrianW[:sun:] |
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| Ok....BLAST FROM THE PAST!!!!!!
I FOUND THIS ONE AND YOU GUYS HAVE TO READ IT AGAIN....GOOD STUFF! |
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