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Posts: 48
Location: West Central Wisconsin | Fellow Evinrude fans,
In light of the news about BRP discontinuing Evinrude, have you thought about what your next motor might be? I've owned 3 boats and all 3 have been powered by Evinrude. Considering I have had ZERO problems with mine, I was planning for my next boat to have an e-tec hanging on it as well.
I had fallen in love with the "giddy-up" of the 2-stoke, simplicity of winterization and limited maintenance. Who can offer me the same? (For arguments sake - let's assume we're talking 150-200hp range.)
BTW - I'm secretly hoping someone picks up the technology and runs with it, but assuming BRP is still planning to use that tech in their sleds, I doubt it's for sale. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The release says the technology is not for sale. |
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Posts: 48
Location: West Central Wisconsin | Thanks Steve. I guess I missed that part. Was hard to read through the tears in my eyes.  |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Disappointing for sure. It wasn't too long ago BRP announced that Evinrude was on it's own to sink or swim. I guess we now know the result. |
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Posts: 82
Location: Cottage Grove, Mn | https://www.chicagotribune.com/news/ct-xpm-1998-09-27-9809270257-sto...
Evinrude/ Johnson OMC ……. in their beds
Our water : Lake Michigan poisoned by OMC dumping PCBs, oil solvents in Waukegen Harbor. All these corporate bassturds should be executed. Not our citizens, children having health problems for decades!
not even close Evinrude
Edited by greybeard 6/4/2020 11:35 AM
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Posts: 1000
| Honestly all the modern 4-strokes (Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, Merc) are substantially easier to live with than any 2-stroke on the market.
Winterization - the differences you're looking at are having to change engine oil (easy), and generally not needing to fog. I hear mixed messaging on the fogging bit, but unless you're hanging her up for 2 years I don't believe it's necessary. I run Seafoam all year long and have never had even a hint of a hiccup firing up my honda or yamahas for the first time every year.
Maintenance/Longevity: 2-4K hours is to expected from modern 4-strokes. I don't know a single person that's had anything close to reliability issues with a Yamaha or Honda.
Giddy up - up for debate. You don't see Mercury investing in their 2-stroke designs. If there is a gap in performance, it's narrowing rapidly.
I'd bet good money that once you go 4-stroke, you'll never look back |
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | tolle141 - 6/4/2020 1:02 PM
Honestly all the modern 4-strokes (Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, Merc) are substantially easier to live with than any 2-stroke on the market.
Winterization - the differences you're looking at are having to change engine oil (easy), and generally not needing to fog. I hear mixed messaging on the fogging bit, but unless you're hanging her up for 2 years I don't believe it's necessary. I run Seafoam all year long and have never had even a hint of a hiccup firing up my honda or yamahas for the first time every year.
Maintenance/Longevity: 2-4K hours is to expected from modern 4-strokes. I don't know a single person that's had anything close to reliability issues with a Yamaha or Honda.
Giddy up - up for debate. You don't see Mercury investing in their 2-stroke designs. If there is a gap in performance, it's narrowing rapidly.
I'd bet good money that once you go 4-stroke, you'll never look back
I'd take that bet...
Lets see...I've got an etec. I put gas in it, fill the oil reservoir and go fishing....all year, and when it comes time to winterize, I follow the procedure that winterizes the engine on it's own in about 2 minutes, and shuts off automatically...stabilizer in the fuel for the last tank of the year and it's good to go until spring.
My fuel mileage is maybe not as good as a comparable 4 stroke at full throttle under full load, but it's not far off...trolling though...could do it all day and it sips fuel just like a 4 stroke.
Father has an old 1973 Johnson 2 stroke that when was still used, probably upwards of your 2K to 4k hours over it's 40+ years of being in service. Never had the carb rebuilt....had the points replaced at one point...somewhere around 1985 or so, and has been flawless since... Old school...put a couple of tablespoons of oil down each cylinder after running the fuel out of it (which was consistently done after every trip) and compression was still rock solid and consistent between both cylinders. Still starts on the 2nd or 3rd pull cold, and on the first with barely a pull when warm. It's amazing how well those engines last. Look at how many 15hp Johnson/evinrude motors you still see out there that were from the 70's and 80's. They were, and still are rock solid motors.
The way things are going, the only option will be a 4 stroke so...true....may never look back because there is not viable option. Sad to see evinrude going under. It's great technology and many many many people ran those engines...why? Because they're good!!
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| VMS - 6/5/2020 2:12 PM
tolle141 - 6/4/2020 1:02 PM
Honestly all the modern 4-strokes (Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, Merc) are substantially easier to live with than any 2-stroke on the market.
Winterization - the differences you're looking at are having to change engine oil (easy), and generally not needing to fog. I hear mixed messaging on the fogging bit, but unless you're hanging her up for 2 years I don't believe it's necessary. I run Seafoam all year long and have never had even a hint of a hiccup firing up my honda or yamahas for the first time every year.
Maintenance/Longevity: 2-4K hours is to expected from modern 4-strokes. I don't know a single person that's had anything close to reliability issues with a Yamaha or Honda.
Giddy up - up for debate. You don't see Mercury investing in their 2-stroke designs. If there is a gap in performance, it's narrowing rapidly.
I'd bet good money that once you go 4-stroke, you'll never look back
I'd take that bet...
Lets see...I've got an etec. I put gas in it, fill the oil reservoir and go fishing....all year, and when it comes time to winterize, I follow the procedure that winterizes the engine on it's own in about 2 minutes, and shuts off automatically...stabilizer in the fuel for the last tank of the year and it's good to go until spring.
My fuel mileage is maybe not as good as a comparable 4 stroke at full throttle under full load, but it's not far off...trolling though...could do it all day and it sips fuel just like a 4 stroke.
Father has an old 1973 Johnson 2 stroke that when was still used, probably upwards of your 2K to 4k hours over it's 40+ years of being in service. Never had the carb rebuilt....had the points replaced at one point...somewhere around 1985 or so, and has been flawless since... Old school...put a couple of tablespoons of oil down each cylinder after running the fuel out of it (which was consistently done after every trip ) and compression was still rock solid and consistent between both cylinders. Still starts on the 2nd or 3rd pull cold, and on the first with barely a pull when warm. It's amazing how well those engines last. Look at how many 15hp Johnson/evinrude motors you still see out there that were from the 70's and 80's. They were, and still are rock solid motors.
The way things are going, the only option will be a 4 stroke so...true....may never look back because there is not viable option. Sad to see evinrude going under. It's great technology and many many many people ran those engines...why? Because they're good!!
You probably have some thoughts on this: The technology in the E-Tec was apparently quite good but was it also quite costly to produce? I know Mercury focused on ways to produce lighter, more powerful 4 strokes rather than pushing the Optimax technology. That shift started before the recession. The former chief of staff for Mercury, since retired, wondered about how long Evinrude could stick a 2 stroke only business plan in a presentation he gave to my service club going back 10,12 years ago. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | https://racinecountyeye.com/brp-us-inc-to-layoff-387-people/ |
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Posts: 2269
Location: SE, WI. | VMS - 6/5/2020 2:12 PM
tolle141 - 6/4/2020 1:02 PM
Honestly all the modern 4-strokes (Yamaha, Honda, Suzuki, Merc) are substantially easier to live with than any 2-stroke on the market.
Winterization - the differences you're looking at are having to change engine oil (easy), and generally not needing to fog. I hear mixed messaging on the fogging bit, but unless you're hanging her up for 2 years I don't believe it's necessary. I run Seafoam all year long and have never had even a hint of a hiccup firing up my honda or yamahas for the first time every year.
Maintenance/Longevity: 2-4K hours is to expected from modern 4-strokes. I don't know a single person that's had anything close to reliability issues with a Yamaha or Honda.
Giddy up - up for debate. You don't see Mercury investing in their 2-stroke designs. If
there is a gap in performance, it's narrowing rapidly.
I'd bet good money that once you go 4-stroke, you'll never look back
I'd take that bet...
Lets see...I've got an etec. I put gas in it, fill the oil reservoir and go fishing....all year, and when it comes time to winterize, I follow the procedure that winterizes the engine on it's own in about 2 minutes, and shuts off automatically...stabilizer in the fuel for the last tank of the year and it's good to go until spring.
My fuel mileage is maybe not as good as a comparable 4 stroke at full throttle under full load, but it's not far off...trolling though...could do it all day and it sips fuel just like a 4 stroke.
Father has an old 1973 Johnson 2 stroke that when was still used, probably upwards of your 2K to 4k hours over it's 40+ years of being in service. Never had the carb rebuilt....had the points replaced at one point...somewhere around 1985 or so, and has been flawless since... Old school...put a couple of tablespoons of oil down each cylinder after running the fuel out of it (which was consistently done after every trip ) and compression was still rock solid and consistent between both cylinders. Still starts on the 2nd or 3rd pull cold, and on the first with barely a pull when warm. It's amazing how well those engines last. Look at how many 15hp Johnson/evinrude motors you still see out there that were from the 70's and 80's. They were, and still are rock solid motors.
The way things are going, the only option will be a 4 stroke so...true....may never look back because there is not viable option. Sad to see evinrude going under. It's great technology and many many many people ran those engines...why? Because they're good!!
VMS....Agree! Just the thought of buying another 4 stroke, makes me want to take My E-tec to my Grave. Very sad E-tec is going away: (
Known a few sales reps that Sold 4 strokes. Had a few heart to heart talks with them. Both had 30+ years in the Industry. They told me, as long as 2 strokes were around, they would Never buy a 4 stroke. Just The thought of purchasing another 4 stroke is Scary!
JD
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Posts: 1088
Location: Hayward, WI | We carry Yamaha, Mercury, Honda and Evinrude. If I look back at if a motor had to come in for warranty work, either factory campaign or something wrong, here are my top of the head numbers. Evinrude - 100% over the last couple of years, every motor we sold had to come back to the shop for either factory campaign or issues. Mercury - 20% and most of that was for factory campaign work. Yamaha and Honda - 10% or less. If we had a problem with EV and we had to work with factory tech service, it was like they where throwing darts at a board and we where guinea pigs for them. They where never sure what was going on. Any other OEM, that never happened. |
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Posts: 52
| I suspect BRP's own market research and dealer feedback showed that potential customers liked their boats but didn't want to pair them with Evinrude motors.
One Alumacraft dealer specifically told me they had no interest in selling Evinrudes because they and their customers were so happy with offerings from Suzuki and Yamaha.
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | kjgmh - 6/6/2020 8:15 AM
We carry Yamaha, Mercury, Honda and Evinrude. If I look back at if a motor had to come in for warranty work, either factory campaign or something wrong, here are my top of the head numbers. Evinrude - 100% over the last couple of years, every motor we sold had to come back to the shop for either factory campaign or issues. Mercury - 20% and most of that was for factory campaign work. Yamaha and Honda - 10% or less. If we had a problem with EV and we had to work with factory tech service, it was like they where throwing darts at a board and we where guinea pigs for them. They where never sure what was going on. Any other OEM, that never happened.
I'm guessing this 100% would be from the G2 engine design? I have not heard of many G1 engines having issues except for when they first got rolling...that I would call normal bugs just like optimax had back when they started rolling with it.
JD, not sure...I have not looked into that aspect of things, but I am sure the etec is not going away as I believe the snowmobile engine line will most likely stay on that track unless that is something they are looking to go away from as well. The only assumption I could make about any of this (I've done no research here so this is very much a tongue firmly planted in cheek) would be the G2 models (going off of the above posting) was becoming too costly to continue working on (given so a significant amount of warranty work etc.). I can only hope they will sometime come back in at some point....but with the other good options out there, probably not going to be anything we see.
Steve
Edited by VMS 6/7/2020 9:47 AM
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| The original Optimax did have issues but that was first introduced in 1995. The outboard industry has changed a lot since then. I knew a couple of veteran engineers from Mercury when I lived in Fond du Lac, and they felt that the 2 stroke technology had been pushed to its limits, at least from the standpoint of what you could deliver at a price point the consumer would be willing to pay. That was why Mercury moved to lighter, more powerful 4 strokes. The Opti was a technical break through when introduced but that was a long time ago.
Would be interesting to know what Evinrude's cost of build was compared to a similar sized 4 stroke from Mercury, Yamaha, Suzuki and warranty costs. That has to be the issue. Really hope the folks at their Wis. plant can keep jobs working on other BRP products. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | North,
The link I posted above covers the layoffs there. Doesn't look good. |
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| sworrall - 6/7/2020 4:34 PM
North,
The link I posted above covers the layoffs there. Doesn't look good.
Yes, and the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel has carried the story but I am hoping that when the economy settles they can bring back workers to maybe build snow mobile engines or something else. The way WI law is set up they need to give notice ahead of time when they lay off that many people and some times it is worst case scenario, so as to cover their bases if any pending plans fall through. That way they don't have to wait an additional 60 days. BRP is a big company, just hoping they can find something to do with the folks who had been building the E Tec. |
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Posts: 7
| E-Tec is not going away. Look up "Project Ghost" regarding Evinrude. The invisible outboard--that is why they bought Alumacraft and Manitou Pontoons so they could integrate this new technology into their newly acquired boat business |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I wonder if they will stick to a 2 stroke gasoline platform. From what I've seen it's sort of 'out there' so far.
Almost 400 people lost their jobs permanently. Going to be interesting.
Engine has to place in the transom area, so far it looks like hybrid inboard tech. Electric has even been floated around in the rumors. Makes no sense if they were profitable in the outboard biz to give that business to a rival to power their own boat brands and shut down a division of the business if the ghost tech was close, but who knows! |
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| The Milwaukee Sentinel story about the closing stated BRP alluded to two projects, one was "ghost", don't remember the other. Supposedly that is why they are not selling the production facility that is closing, because at some point they want to pursue these new technologies using that facility. Hope that something happens for the sake of all those workers. |
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Posts: 7
| The weird thing about the Ghost is that they lost the repower market but maybe they have a new way of re-rigging. I think their new technology has to have the boat designed around it. 1.5 - 2 years out before we'd see it. I was told the engine design is opposing cylinders that is partially in the water column to help cooling and silencing. I'm very intrigued. Neat concept that I hope works out for WI jobs. |
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Posts: 1000
| I don't see why they would've taken this approach if Project Ghost was going to come to fruition. By shutting down the brand, they murdered the resale value of their loyal customers' boats and undermined any confidence in long-term support of a new-to-market product that's unproven. |
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Posts: 1735
| For all the E-Tec fans out there, there are plenty of boats for sale with E-Tecs hanging on the back. |
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Posts: 921
| You couldn’t pay me to have another ETEC. 2 of 5 years broke down on LOTW with my 250. 10 years on LOTW my old Yamaha F80 and never had a issue.
Plus $50 for a gallon of XD100 per every tank of gas is ridiculous. Over $150 to fill the gas tank with non oxy I can deal with. But then adding a $50 gallon of oil is just plain stupid.
Midge
Edited by MuskyMidget 6/22/2020 8:47 PM
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Posts: 3480
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
To each their own...
Seeing no problems with Etec, and with the number of people running them without issue, I am hopeful that your situations Midge were just anomalies. By the way...what were the two issues you ran into? I'm curious as I'd love to have some heads up if something were to happen to mine I'd at least have some semblance of what the issue might be.
At this point, I'm highly satisfied with performance, fuel use, and oil. I don't run Non-oxygenated fuel as the motor is designed to run on E10 (as are all outboard engines these days) so I save a bit per gallon there, and when I buy XD100 oil I will look for the best deal I can get. Two years ago, I found a deal on Jet where each gallon was only $34 when I purchased a 3-gallon box. That was a great deal!! Doing things like this makes it easier on the pocketbook, and I'm guessing you are running something around a 620 to have a 70-some gallon tank. I'm not at that point yet..only a 30 gallon tank with my 617, but that lasts me a long time unless I am up running everywhere on Lake of the woods. I plan for that though and....I also boat my fuel in as you never know how long the fuel sits in some of the resort fuel tanks, so I also do it for peace of mind.
I don't think there is any bad outboard on the market today when it comes to the big names. The way things are, though...it'll have to be a 4 stroke for the next rig as 2 stroke at this point is basically off the table. Not excited about that in my humble opinion...I like the low end torque the 2 stroke provides over the 4 stroke, and I really like just letting the engine store itself in 2 minutes...that is a really nice feature I will miss if the next rig has to be a 4 stroke. The way things go I guess...
Steve |
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| Interesting that the "ghost" project may involve an engine with opposing cylinders. Thinking about a couple older Porche I have see with the Boxer style motor, really does not take up a lot of vertical space. I could see where that would work in the floor of a pontoon. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | https://www.thefishingwire.com/releases/96c8468b-ed7e-4d35-9a88-cee7...
http://news.brp.com/static-files/4158acfd-80cd-482d-a657-29bd8420c6...
Also, the 2019 release on the new Ghost tech said the engine will 'sit outside of the transom' and be 'easily removable'.
Quite a bit of talk about Mexico in the above PDF. Something really changed between this report and now. |
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Posts: 921
| Cylinder 5 injector went out 2 years ago on LOTW and something else 2 years before that I cannot remember the exact diagnosis as my buddy owned it at that time. The boat/motor was a hand me down from him to me 5 years ago.
He's had lower unit issues too, but that's from hitting rocks and self inflicted! LOL
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Posts: 93
| I am as deep in ownership as anyone into Evirude motors as 3 of the 7 outboards I own are G2's. They perform well with their low end torque and good economy/emissions, but I won't say they are bulletproof.
The biggest issue I saw, that will now be a bigger issue, is the lack of fully and completely trained mechanics including ones with experience.
The boats with Evinrudes on the back have been de-valued no matter what anyone thinks. There can be some "fans" out there but unless it's the deal of a century no one is going to touch em. I can't blame anyone from feeling this way.
Personally I think the Ghost will be just that, an apparition.
The fresh water market is tiny compared to the coast or saltwater market. After the way BRP dumped on what was a growing E-tech customer base, very few people would drink the Kool-Aide on some "new and improved" yet unproven idea.
I hope everyone in Sturtevant can quickly seek gainful and prosperous employment, given the situation at hand.
I personally will stay away from all things BRP in the future. |
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Posts: 921
| I must also mention though that I have 2 ski Doo sno cats with e Tecs. I will say those seem bullet proof compared the my friends Polaris!
I’ve got almost 10,000 miles on my 2014 Renegade and never had an issue!
Love the e Tecs in sleds! |
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| MuskyMidget - 6/23/2020 6:13 PM
I must also mention though that I have 2 ski Doo sno cats with e Tecs. I will say those seem bullet proof compared the my friends Polaris!
I’ve got almost 10,000 miles on my 2014 Renegade and never had an issue!
Love the e Tecs in sleds!
I wondered it that was the same technology. One of my nephews is a huge snowmobile fan, bought his first sled brand new while in high school (worked evenings as a welder) and he rides a Ski Doo E-Tech 20+ years later and raves about power to weight, etc. |
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