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Posts: 69
Location: Royalton, MN | I'm referring to casts with no visible follow. Are there any lures or conditions where you feel you'd be better off continuing to chunk and wind rather than do a figure-8 after each cast? |
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Posts: 4269
Location: Ashland WI | BassThumb - 10/3/2019 12:30 PM
I'm referring to casts with no visible follow. Are there any lures or conditions where you feel you'd be better off continuing to chunk and wind rather than do a figure-8 after each cast?
Almost never. Maybe with a slow retrieve in clear water, but even then I have still have fish show up late. |
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Posts: 20254
Location: oswego, il | No. I have had fish blast a bait out of nowhere boat side on a clear day in deep clear water. |
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Posts: 2068
| Yes a full figure 8 can be a complete waste of time in some conditions where you and the fish can see very well.. Burning blades on a 3’ Sand bite in very clear water ..90% of fish caught aren’t in the 8 anyway and furthermore I can see them coming from a mile away ..full 8 is complete waste of time, if you are paying attention. wtd on super clear water. Again chance to convert boatside is low and my time and odds are better to make the next cast ...however low light , rain, obviously dark ..Heavy wind ... full 8 even for ultra clear water |
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Posts: 2381
Location: Chisholm, MN | There really shouldn't be an excuse, but of course I do it now and then. |
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Posts: 1391
| Sometimes fish will be under the boat, and if you don't at least do an L into a big circle, you will never know they were there. Learned the hard way, and have benefited from that lesson, as well. |
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Posts: 35
| BassThumb - 10/3/2019 12:30 PM
I'm referring to casts with no visible follow. Are there any lures or conditions where you feel you'd be better off continuing to chunk and wind rather than do a figure-8 after each cast?
Most places I fish. Yes. Almost never waste my time. |
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Posts: 499
Location: Northern Illinois | TCESOX - 10/3/2019 6:13 PM
Sometimes fish will be under the boat, and if you don't at least do an L into a big circle, you will never know they were there. Learned the hard way, and have benefited from that lesson, as well.
This will happen at least a couple times a season almost always when there are 2-3 guys in the boat. |
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Posts: 100
| RLSea - 10/3/2019 8:00 PM
TCESOX - 10/3/2019 6:13 PM
Sometimes fish will be under the boat, and if you don't at least do an L into a big circle, you will never know they were there. Learned the hard way, and have benefited from that lesson, as well.
This will happen at least a couple times a season almost always when there are 2-3 guys in the boat.
Yes, sometimes the fish are coming off the deep side, or from right underneath the boat. No follow per se, but your 8 will trigger a fish that was laying nearby. I've caught fish just figure eighting without casting in super active areas. |
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Posts: 174
Location: Alexandria, MN | I usually do an L turn or even a loop for possible late-comers. However, rather than do a full 8 - especially in clear water - I feel like I'm more productive covering more water with another cast. |
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Posts: 356
| Yes. IAjustin nailed it IMO. Just need to make sure a ‘lazy habit’ doesn’t develop. |
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| TCESOX - 10/3/2019 7:13 PM Sometimes fish will be under the boat, and if you don't at least do an L into a big circle, you will never know they were there. Learned the hard way, and have benefited from that lesson, as well. THIS!
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Posts: 8834
| I think the ones that come from under the boat were late arrivals, or fish that your boat partners didn't see and went on to keep casting. I've only had that happen a few times, and it was always under conditions where it was very difficult to see.
If I'm fishing in dark/stained water, heavy chop, low light conditions, etc. I always do a couple 8's, because you just never know. Clear water/flat sunny day, sometimes you can see your lure on the entire cast. If there was a fish, you'd have seen it a long time ago. Cases like that I'll do half a turn in case one "shows up", but I think you're better off throwing the next cast instead of doing 3-4 figure 8's for a fish that's just not there. |
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Posts: 8834
| (double post)
Edited by esoxaddict 10/4/2019 11:44 AM
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Posts: 390
| I will skip the 8 only on a super clear body of water I fish early spring and only in shallow water. Have been surprised a few other times even when I though I would see every follow.
The only other time is with a wtd topwater, L turn normally only. |
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| i never figure 8 after every cast,just a L and nothing at all when i can see the bottom out of 20f of water.imo it's just common sense |
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Posts: 618
Location: Michigan | I do a figure 8 after every cast. You just don't know if a fish is under the boat or lurking far beneath a bait and the change of direction can trigger it. There are also triggers one can do before getting to the figure 8 which should draw fish out of hiding as well. I've had fish come out of nowhere in really dirty water and really clear water (25'+) to smash a bait. Just because you can't see them doesn't mean they can't see the bait. |
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Posts: 1938
Location: Black Creek, WI | I never figure 8 a suick. Will give the lure extra hang time at boatside when using a crankbait or glider or any lure with a pause in its cadence. Bucktails and rubber are easier and more effective to figure8 and even those I'm just giving an extended L turn before rippin' off another cast if nothing shows by then. Night time is the only time that I will do a full hearted figure 8 after every cast. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | as others, I definitely don't do one every cast.. water clarity and depth are main factors... usually do an L but sometimes if burning bucktails don't even do that...
Edited by BNelson 10/7/2019 1:32 PM
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Posts: 356
| Back in the day I often fished with a well known Muskie guy who rarely 8ed at all. At most an ‘L’ that was part of a continuous motion into the next cast.He knew the math on the average number of casts to see/boat a fish and said the ‘math’ ruled out 8ing..The math said more casts was the way to go. With him,the days were long and the number of casts large. Only breaks for ANY reason was between spots.
If you want numbers over enjoyment,i’d consider that route. |
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Posts: 1938
Location: Black Creek, WI | Including a full figure8 after every cast is "enjoyment"? Huh. Sounds like a sore back to me. lol. How on earth do you do it DickP? |
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Posts: 356
|  Poorly worded response on my part J.'Relaxed' may have been a better word.His method was intense overall and no '8' was just a part of it.
Fun at times if they were going but didn't leave me time to smell the roses.I remember a day or 2 with you that got pretty intense-in a good way.
By the way,age doesn't improve the '8' any.Two different young guys in my boat this year independently started describing short turn,cut off type 8s as 'Pearson 8s'.Sadly in both cases after seeing me cut off 50s.Soon will need 12 ft rods.
Edited by dickP 10/9/2019 5:45 AM
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Posts: 1938
Location: Black Creek, WI | Ah yes... the Fun Factor. To me, there is no better way to catch a musky than on the Figure8. Up close and personal. But, to incorporate one into every cast can be challenging. Need to find that fountain of youth.... or some more patience. lol. |
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Posts: 391
| I do it out of lazinessiness, and then a low, slow fish shows up when I've already sent my bait into the stratosphere... And then I do my full figure eight until I get lazy again after 12 hours of no follows.
Edited by FlyPiker 10/9/2019 8:55 AM
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Posts: 100
| I fished with a very well know and respected guide this summer who has been tracking fish caught at boat side. His data showed that half the fish caught on the figure 8 came out of nowhere and were not seen. To me that means that you losing fish that you could otherwise catch if you aren't doing a boatside manoeuvre. Plainly stated, if you like catching less fish, don't do an figure 8. |
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Posts: 90
| Gregoire - 10/10/2019 5:19 PM
I fished with a very well know and respected guide this summer who has been tracking fish caught at boat side. His data showed that half the fish caught on the figure 8 came out of nowhere and were not seen. To me that means that you losing fish that you could otherwise catch if you aren't doing a boatside manoeuvre. Plainly stated, if you like catching less fish, don't do an figure 8.
Sounds harsh, this is true. I've witnessed a lot of fish not caught by boat partners because they don't figure eight, pretty frustrating. If I can't show them a fish caught on the 8, I tell them to watch a few of the countless YouTube videos. |
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Posts: 1938
Location: Black Creek, WI | OK. So the advocates of doing an 8 after every cast. How long is long enough? You gotta call it quits and make another cast at some point. If you do 1 full 8 and then as you pull your lure from the water a fish shows... should you have done 2? If you did two figure 8's and then a fish shows as you pull the lure to make a cast, should you have done 3? A late arrival will always be a late arrival. To me, you need to consider your presentation (ambush vs chase), location, and overall return on your investment (ROI). Its not black and white. And don't forget, like DickP stated, part of the RETURN on your investment is your enjoyment and not necessarily your success at getting a bite. |
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Posts: 679
Location: Duluth | I do it every cast because I have been surprised and 80% of my musky have been caught on the 8.
Fish often with a guide on Vermilion, the number 1 thing he comments on when he sees another musky boat is if they 8 after every cast and if they are doing tourists turns. If they are guilty of either then he has no problem rolling into the spot because "they aren't going to catch an active fish anyway"
My experience and the experience of much better musky fisherman than myself is enough for me to do a nice wide 8 every cast. If one comes late, well then I'll do two 8's next time or extend it, its also a great indicator of mood. |
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Posts: 618
Location: Michigan | jlong - 10/11/2019 9:58 AM
OK. So the advocates of doing an 8 after every cast. How long is long enough? You gotta call it quits and make another cast at some point. If you do 1 full 8 and then as you pull your lure from the water a fish shows... should you have done 2? If you did two figure 8's and then a fish shows as you pull the lure to make a cast, should you have done 3? A late arrival will always be a late arrival. To me, you need to consider your presentation (ambush vs chase), location, and overall return on your investment (ROI). Its not black and white. And don't forget, like DickP stated, part of the RETURN on your investment is your enjoyment and not necessarily your success at getting a bite.
I just do 1 figure 8 as a trigger for any fish which may be under the boat or out of sight below the bait. I'm not looking to trigger any lazy followers as they are just that, lazy. I'm worried about the ones coming up from 20' similar to this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xLvmAnKw3g
I'll also do a figure 8 in dirtier water to make sure I'm not missing a somewhat active follow as I'm hoping I'll see the fish's side flash as it turns with the bait in the 8.
Will I catch more fish if I don't figure 8 and make 200 more casts throughout the day? Possibly. However, I really hate seeing a fish looking for a bait to eat boatside after someone pulled their bait out of the water too early. |
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Posts: 8834
| That's a cool video! Illustrates exactly why you do figure 8's when fishing deep/low visibility, etc. I had an instance a while back where I abandoned a figure 8 to make the "perfect" cast across the tip of a point - spot on the spot kind of deal that I would have missed had I decided to do a few 8's. 3 cranks of the handle and *pow* 45"er. Not saying I wouldn't have caught that fish if we drifted another 30 ft., but there's an instance one in the bag is better than one that might have showed up late.
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