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Posts: 94
| I was just sitting on the stationary bike pedaling away going through last summer's In-Fisherman mag and came across a piece by Dr. Hal Schramm that discusses a report done by the WI DNR from an examination of the Vilas Co Muskie Marathon records dating 1964 to 2010. We all know catch and release has since caught on over that period and what was found in the report was the average size of the muskies in Vilas Co showed a "significant" increase in length. What was noted was that the average length of the 10 largest muskies entered in the contest each year saw a "significant decline" from 52.8" in 1964 to 48.4" in 2010.
The author appeared to me making the point that there are too many muskies around that crowd each other out in competition for food and that may be the reason they do not grow to the larger lengths generally. Ok, could be. My first question would be are the biggest fish being reported?
So, is this an issue? Without any science to back me up I am having a hard time believing we need more harvest. I think many die post release anyway. So many factors at play. Thoughts? |
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Posts: 556
| I know of quite a few fish over 50" that are caught in Wisconsin every season that are not reported... As a member of 2 state musky Clubs MANY,MANY members never report these fish----2 Main reasons---- Fishing pressure on the lakes they fish & Internet Know it all Police who already question anything a Angler posts..... So I can only Imagine that many other Angler simply DO NOT REPORT THESE FISH for I am sure many reasons---- I am glad they are not reported---Keep it that way I say.... |
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Posts: 31
| I have been fishing muskies in N. Wisconsin every year since 1963 with some success.
Way back then, just a KEEPER (30") would draw crowds to see the wolf of the water, close up. LOOK AT THOSE TEETH!!
We did a lot of 'cradle robbing' in those days....
I remember one rare sunny November day on the Chip in the early 70s when myself and a buddy caught 35 muskies in about 5 hours, and there wasn't a keeper among any of them.
That was the day I decided to start putting them back...
Over the last 50 years a lot of people got the same idea I think, because the average size is definitely getting bigger, and will continue to do that, as long as we all keep putting them back. Wisconsin 50s are becoming common, if you can find anyone that will admit it. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Define "common" lol |
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Posts: 20230
Location: oswego, il | Do they make a sun visor with a badge on it?:-)
Funny, I know people who fished back then and they claim the fishing wasn't as good as it is now and neither we're the fish. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | Todd, from what I can tell you have put a very large # of hours in WI over the last 20 yrs... how many 50s do you have again? I know some very good anglers to have fished in Northern Wi a very long time and every one says the big fish #s are down as compared to 10 yrs ago... when I look at guys who actually do register their fish (accurately) the #of 50s is the same or a touch less.... when someone says they are becoming common I have to sort of chuckle... the guys who fish a lot and who are very good anglers are not catching them nor are the guys they know... maybe there are more fishermen now than ever before so a few more might get caught.. personally I've fished in Wi since 1993 and minus a few fisheries like Green Bay (which is not an inland water) and Madison....my view is that the # of big fish say over 48" is not what it was 10 to 20 yrs ago and many I know who fish a lot more and catch a lot more in Northern WI would agree...
Edited by BNelson 1/3/2019 7:38 AM
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Posts: 1293
Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | One only need look at the old Chip Flowage catch/keep charts (can be seen at the Landing) to see that every fish over 30 inches got bonked and very few BIG fish were caught (which ironically is about the same as it is now for the 50's). However, now there are many more fish in the 40's caught and released than the old days, but not nearly as many fish are being caught now as then. Not nearly as much pressure either, because frankly, the fish just aren't there anymore...you should hear the complaints from the folks that own property there! And of course the "unclaimed and unmentioned" winter kills are being kept quiet. The big drawn downs to supposedly get rid of milfoil are simply killing fish. LOTS of photographs of these kills exist... |
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Posts: 8792
| I'm sure there are fish that don't get reported, but anybody who thinks 50"ers are "common" has some rethinking to do.
There are a few systems that have "the right stuff" in terms of acreage, water quality, forage, etc. If you find them, your chances go up. But the fact remains that many of the lakes in N/WI are relatively infertile, perch/panfish forage base that just can't support the biomass needed to consistently produce trophy class muskies. That could be helped some with increased size limits, and (more importantly) creel/slot limits.
But the lakes are what they are.
That said, anybody who remembers the 70's will tell you that we've come a long way since then. It's never going to be Canada, but it's a #*^@ lot better than it was.
I attribute that to catch and release and the fact that there just aren't that many people fishing compared to 30-40 years ago.
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Location: MN | If only WI fish were built like WI women...Giants! |
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | I see many articles being written about declining license sales, but I don’t think you will find many active fisherman who would tell you they are seeing less pressure. Certainly not happening on the launches I go to... |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | esoxaddict - 1/3/2019 11:28 AM
fact that there just aren't that many people fishing compared to 30-40 years ago.
When was your last visit to a boat ramp? Pretty busy out there. Maybe a drop in nationwide fishing license sales, but locally there are quite a few anglers out there. |
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Location: 31 | I agree that Wisconsin inland 50s have never been “common”, not now - not then… and I would add they simply never will be for a variety of reasons as already mentioned. Even though they were clubbed back in 1964, I suspect that delayed mortality particularly with larger muskies is still more prevalent than we would like to think today, especially when they are handled for pictures in warm water by less than professional means.
Kind of a small point but would also guess that they primarily used a soft tape to measure over the curve in 64… this probably added an 1” or more depending on who was doing the measuring, this would skew the data some if true. There might be less fishing pressure, but what about muskie pressure... for sure it's more intelligent nowadays as well. Although it would still be a smallish number, there are certainly some 50” class fish not being reported, and would guess that back in 1964 almost all of them were reported, but these would still be smallish numbers and therefore easily skewed.
A blanket statement of too many muskies as the reason for the big fish decline using that data... hog wash.
Edited by Jerry Newman 1/3/2019 12:10 PM
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Posts: 8792
| Pointerpride102 - 1/3/2019 11:56 AM
esoxaddict - 1/3/2019 11:28 AM
fact that there just aren't that many people fishing compared to 30-40 years ago.
When was your last visit to a boat ramp? Pretty busy out there. Maybe a drop in nationwide fishing license sales, but locally there are quite a few anglers out there.
Maybe on the "circus lakes"... Where we like to fish 5 boats is a crowd. |
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Posts: 20230
Location: oswego, il | Brad this is an interesting discussion. Certainly more harvest 20 years ago and I bet more stocking too. The inland waters I fish, I would not say there is more pressure, certainly the equipment used to catch them is better. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | esoxaddict - 1/3/2019 12:14 PM
Pointerpride102 - 1/3/2019 11:56 AM
esoxaddict - 1/3/2019 11:28 AM
fact that there just aren't that many people fishing compared to 30-40 years ago.
When was your last visit to a boat ramp? Pretty busy out there. Maybe a drop in nationwide fishing license sales, but locally there are quite a few anglers out there.
Maybe on the "circus lakes"... Where we like to fish 5 boats is a crowd.
We? As in you and the guide?  |
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Posts: 8792
| We as in my wife and I. Wife who looks out the window at the landing and says "#*#*, there's another boat. Let's go somewhere else!" and thinks a 25 minute drive each way down washed out fire roads to go a lake that's literally 3 miles away is a fun adventure.
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Posts: 300
Location: Minocqua, WI | Any time a big fish and their population members feels exploited, threatened, pressured to absurd excessive amounts like many of Vilas and Oneida's top musky fisheries are experiencing right now, odds of catching the 50's that do exist lessens to very extremely low odds. It's nature's response for all species of the magical animal kingdom. Hence they become elusive, wiser. They want nothing to do with people.
I have no doubt the limited number of 50's were more catchable back then than they are now. But not every body of water is even capable of producing or growing one today thanks to forage imbalances or declines, habitat loss (more common now than 1960's), and pee poor handling or harvest....... Unlike the 60's, our lakes and landings are more populated with homeowners and anglers now than ever before = pressure and habitat loss / fisheries detriments.
I get chastised on facebook by a few of the commentators (some above posters) every time I make mention I saw a northwoods 50" at WI public water. In 10 years of musky fishing I have only witnessed 5 specimens at 50" or better. 1 caught and measured in the water, and 4 others to boatside (non caught) and giving me a shortness of breath. All from popular and publicly accessible water in Minocqua with history of producing 50's. Time on the water increases odds and I've been fortunate to have seen what many have never seen.
When one primarily fishes out of a small jon boat and tri hull like I do, both less than 50" wide, it's far easier and accurate to estimate fish length when they come up to boatside. I use my narrow boat for visual aid and it always helps debunk overestimation. Most musky guys won't have a vantage or reference point because like this because apparently musky fishing is for the wealthy and one needs a 60K yacht to catch fish these days.......
That proves Esox911's post for many fishermen declining to report to avoid interrogation by the musky community. But if they're friends I get satisfaction riling them up and getting their reaction. Ain't that right guys?  |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I'd have to disagree whole heartedly with less musky guys today than 30-40 yrs ago EA..you are off your rocker .. every musky guy I know who fishes in Vilas says there is 5 x the pressure now than 20 yrs ago.. oh I guess you don't know what it was like 20 yrs ago up there without a boat in all seriousness there are absolutey more musky fishermen today and with the advent of map chips, and the internet, dvds like the Badfish vids which helped many figure out some under utilized patterns, and now all the wannabe YouTube rock stars,,fish are seeing wayyyy more pressure than ever before...add in the new crop of guides we see every year.. it never ends...
Edited by BNelson 1/3/2019 1:03 PM
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | BNelson - 1/3/2019 1:01 PM
I'd have to disagree whole heartedly with less musky guys today than 30-40 yrs ago EA..you are off your rocker .. every musky guy I know who fishes in Vilas says there is 5 x the pressure now than 20 yrs ago.. oh I guess you don't know what it was like 20 yrs ago up there without a boat in all seriousness there are absolutey more musky fishermen today and with the advent of map chips, and the internet, dvds like the Badfish vids which helped many figure out some under utilized patterns, and now all the wannabe YouTube rock stars,,fish are seeing wayyyy more pressure than ever before...add in the new crop of guides we see every year.. it never ends...
This is correct. |
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Posts: 8792
| Brad, there are 148 class A muskie lakes to choose from Vilas and Oneida counties. 30-40 years ago, there were resorts on just about every lake, camp boats everywhere on those lakes all summer. All those resorts are gone. There's a bunch of guys out there flocking to this or that lake because someone caught a big fish, or wrote an article, or put up a bunch of pictures or whatever. Yes, you can thank the internet for that. More pressure? Bah. Everybody is all piled up on the same lakes chasing rainbows down in Minocqua. Granted "our lake" isn't a tremendous fishery. Class A2, very clear water, not a lot of structure. I wouldn't recommend it if you're looking for a 50. But the most boats I've ever seen out there is about a half a dozen, and that was when we had 50 guys up there from MuskieFirst. |
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Posts: 1767
Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | Resort traffic has certainly decreased, but boat ownership has never been higher |
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Location: Contrarian Island | again EA, I guess I disagree, I know quite a few guys that fish all over Vilas, on lots of lakes and they tell there are more and more musky guys each year on those lakes... do you fish any lakes besides your own? |
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Posts: 400
Location: North/Central WI | Pressure is at an all time high in Vilas County. I've been musky fishing up there since 1990 and it gets worse every year. EA - I used to fish your lake all the time. My parents live 5 minutes away. 10 years ago or more I was the only boat out there. Now there are 5+ musky boats almost every day I fish it (I basically only get to fish weekends). I agree that 5-6 musky boats isn't a crowd but it does affect the fish. I expect several musky boats on the popular lakes but it seems like more and more lakes are becoming "popular". |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | AndrewR - 1/3/2019 12:56 PM
When one primarily fishes out of a small jon boat and tri hull like I do, both less than 50" wide, it's far easier and accurate to estimate fish length when they come up to boatside. I use my narrow boat for visual aid and it always helps debunk overestimation. Most musky guys won't have a vantage or reference point because like this because apparently musky fishing is for the wealthy and one needs a 60K yacht to catch fish these days.......
This is my favorite part of the thread thus far. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | good point Nate, there is a lake we chat about that I started fishing in about 1999.. fished it a lot in the fall from say 2002 to 2009.. we would fish it in late Oct / Nov and pull in and 9 x out of 10 be the only rig at the landing, if anyone was there it was a local guide row trolling a sucker around for his client..... last few times I went there in the last 4 yrs... pull in, 3 to 4 other rigs ... like you say, pressure is up, is 5 rigs on 800 acres a lot? maybe not but in the late fall the key spots are smaller and everyone is on em... pressure changes fish and fisheries... no doubt about it... |
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Posts: 300
Location: Minocqua, WI | I'm happy to have entertained you today, Mike Bolinski, like I do on facebook apparently. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | AndrewR - 1/3/2019 2:20 PM
I'm happy to have entertained you today, Mike Bolinski, like I do on facebook apparently.
You entertain a wide audience. Though you’ve limited my entertainment on Facebook these days. I haven’t been able to keep up on Loyola’s season. I assume they’re still destined for greatness? |
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Posts: 1220
| I’m surprised nobody has touted the catch recording for the ,so called, “Nationals” held on a whole lot of lakes every August with over a thousand musky anglers fishing three days. I’m not in possession of those numbers but I’d guess maybe an average of one single fifty per year. One tenth as many fishing (let’s say) Vermilion, Leech, right next door in ViQueen territory would boat several. That’s fisheries management for you! |
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Location: Contrarian Island | I don't think they even get an avg of one a year,,, I think its less... |
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Posts: 20230
Location: oswego, il | Interesting, while I can say I have not seen an increase in the number of musky fisherman on the waters I fish up there I have seen more boats at the hotel I stay at. I fish out of the way places and lakes that get passed by for more famous and well known water. I suspect there is more pressure on those lakes.
Edited by ToddM 1/3/2019 3:15 PM
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