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| Message Subject: The Green Thing | |||
horsehunter |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | Yesterday after shopping in our local supermarket, I was in the queue at the Check Out, and heard when the young cashier suggested to the much older lady that she should bring her own grocery bags, because plastic bags are not good for the environment. The woman apologised to the young girl & then sighed, "We didn't have this 'green thing' back in my earlier days." The young clerk responded, "That's our problem today. You folk didn't do enough to save our environment for future generations." The older lady said "Ahh yes you're right -- our generation didn't have the "green thing" in its day." She sighed then continued: Back then, we returned milk bottles, lemonade bottles & beer bottles to the shops. The shops then sent them back to the plant to be washed, sterilized & refilled, so those same bottles were used over & over, thus REALLY were recycled. But we didn't have the "green thing" back in our day. Grocery stores put our groceries into brown paper bags that we reused for numerous things. Most memorable was the use of brown paper bags as book covers for our school books. This was to ensure that public property (the books provided for our use by the school) were not defaced by our scribblings. Then we were able to personalise our books on their brown paper bag/covers. But, too bad we didn't do the "green thing" back then. I remember how we walked up stairs because we didn't have an escalator in every store or office building; walked to the grocery store & didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go 200 yards. . . . But she was right. We didn't have the "green thing" in our day. Back then we washed the baby's nappies because we didn't have the throw away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy-gobbling machine burning up 220 volts. Wind & solar power really did dry our clothes back in our days. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing. . . . But that young lady is right; we didn't have the "green thing" back in our day. Back then we had one radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room. And if anyone did own a TV, it had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of a football pitch. When cooking we blended & stirred by hand coz we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us. When we packaged a fragile item to send by post, we used layers of old newspapers to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap. Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity., , , , But she's right; we didn't have the "green thing" back then. We drank from a tap or fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water. We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, & we replaced the razor blade in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull. But we didn't have the "green thing" back then. Back then, people took the bus & kids rode bikes to school or walked instead of turning their mothers into a 24-hour taxi service in the family's expensive car or van, which cost what a whole house did before the "green thing".. Oh and we had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 23,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest leisure park. . . . . But it so sad this current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the "green thing" back then? . . . I think you should forward this on to another selfish old person who needs a lesson in conservation from some smart ass young person. .. ... We don't like being old in the first place, so it doesn't take much to pee us off... Especially from a tattooed, multiple pierced smart ass who can't make change without the cash register telling them how much. ¯\_(?)_/¯ | ||
| Flambeauski |
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Posts: 4343 Location: Smith Creek | Funny how all the garbage in the "dump" in the woodlot on my property is dated 1940-1960. Fortunately there weren't too many batteries and tires. They musta got tossed in the river. | ||
| dbach17 |
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Posts: 88 Location: Des Plaines, IL | Now please be very careful about this. Every "generation" seems to believe that others, in general, are worse. The truth is we are just different. Because if you think about it, "back in the day" we had segregation, women were not treated as equals, coal was polluting the air, factories with giant smoke stacks poured waste. And now we just do some bad stuff differently, like foreclose on people's homes after giving them terrible and complicated loans so that a bank can make more money, along with some of the other things you mentioned. I will say people my age are willing to ride share with things like Uber, so we are trying to make progress. I believe if we would treat all people with respect and decency (until they do something to lose it), we could make even more progress. I just have a hard time when people talk about how lazy the young kids are or how useless the old people are. We are all people with different strengths and weaknesses, let's appreciate those and learn from each other. Please? | ||
| North of 8 |
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dbach17 - 1/21/2017 9:33 AM Now please be very careful about this. Every "generation" seems to believe that others, in general, are worse. The truth is we are just different. Because if you think about it, "back in the day" we had segregation, women were not treated as equals, coal was polluting the air, factories with giant smoke stacks poured waste. And now we just do some bad stuff differently, like foreclose on people's homes after giving them terrible and complicated loans so that a bank can make more money, along with some of the other things you mentioned. I will say people my age are willing to ride share with things like Uber, so we are trying to make progress. I believe if we would treat all people with respect and decency (until they do something to lose it), we could make even more progress. I just have a hard time when people talk about how lazy the young kids are or how useless the old people are. We are all people with different strengths and weaknesses, let's appreciate those and learn from each other. Please? I grew up 2 blocks from the Wis. River, in Wis. Rapids in the 50s-60a. The river was a dump. The mill dumped everything from toxic chemicals to wood pulp into the river. A block up from the mill was a canning factory that in season dumped all their waste directly into the river. When they were processing beans the river in that section was green and we caught giant carp that were gorging on the waste. The city dumped partially treated human waste into the river. Turds would be floating along the shore. There was so much waste in the river, there were virtually no weeds. No lilly pads, nothing. About 20 years ago I was back visiting and my then young kids thought I was nuts because I got excited seeing a large lilly pad bed right near where I used to fish for bull heads and carp. Those paper bags in the store required a lot of chemicals and energy, more than the plastic bags of today. The milk jugs of today get recycled into high end fleece. We have come a long way but in WI, we are going backwards. My state senator, Tommy Tiffany has introduced legislation that would allow paper mills to discharge more waste into the river. He stated in a recent editorial that no business would want to pollute. I wrote him a letter reminding him that in the 1970s, when clean water bills were being passed, the paper industry in WI wanted to classify the WI River "an industrial river", i.e., a river that was not protected and could be used to dispose of waste. I have not got his response yet. | |||
| PredLuR |
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Posts: 291 Location: Madison, WI | This thread will be gone in no time....with that, im sure that when you were young, you, or people your age, were complaining about the generation before you. Old people complain about the current younger generation and young people complain about the old generation. At the same time, nothing wrong with looking back and thinking that you can be better or do better than the last people that came before you. Sure that can be looked at as a negative towards the people that came before (if they so choose to look at it that way). We should be happy that young people are conscious of these things as id like to think that is how society gets ahead and makes the world we live in a better place. Im pretty sure that given the disposable nature of things and their availability back in the day, the older generation would have used them if given the opportunity. But because those things weren't as available or cost effective, well then I guess it can be looked at as a sacrifice on their part. I doubt they were consciously attempting to save the environment when using cloth diapers, reusable bottles, etc. And honestly, young people suck at showing how they feel about a subject because it takes them a few years to articulate a point. Older people need to give the young ones a break, not get so offended and understand that they too were young at some time and sucked at certain things until they finally grew up. Im 39. Im not a baby boomer and im not a millennial. Just stuck in the middle trying to understand both points of view. I drank ALOT of beer out of disposable bottles in college, who knew i was doing the "green thing" too. | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32886 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | PredLuR - 1/21/2017 10:09 AM This thread will be gone in no time....with that, im sure that when you were young, you, or people your age, were complaining about the generation before you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why will this thread 'be gone?' | ||
| horsehunter |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I was hoping t6o start some thing been quiet around here lately. I do remember taking old batteries to the scrap yard good thing I think they burned them to get the lead bad thing. I bought a set of recapped snow tires for a car about half the price of new good thing until the caps flew off at speed not good. I still see people throwing bags of household garbage in the ditches and along the Trans Canada Trail either because they won`t buy a bag tag or because the dump is closed when they leave their cottages Sunday night and don`t want to take it back to the city.I admit some locals are pigs and also do this but in some cases it is clearly weekenders . I really appreciate the ones that pull off the highway on to our side road and change a dirty diaper and leave it on the side of the road Edited by horsehunter 1/21/2017 12:04 PM | ||
| PredLuR |
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Posts: 291 Location: Madison, WI | sworrall - 1/21/2017 10:56 AM PredLuR - 1/21/2017 10:09 AM This thread will be gone in no time....with that, im sure that when you were young, you, or people your age, were complaining about the generation before you. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Why will this thread 'be gone?' I assumed it would turn political and/or get chippy. | ||
| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8781 | Every generation does the same thing... You get to be 18, maybe through your early 20's, and suddenly your parents are stupid, out of touch, don't know anything after 40+ years despite making a living, raising you and putting a roof over your head for several decades, likely paying your way through college along the way. Then you grow up, get a job, buy a house, have a few kids and all of a sudden they're not so dumb anymore. Ran into an old friend from my childhood. Divorced, 2 kids, wife got the house, usual deal. We started talking about old times and he says: Do you remember that time we were sitting in your living room playing Atari (dating myself here) and your father was on the phone arguing with that guy from the lake? He slammed down the phone and said "Hey, you guys. I'm gonna tell you something. You're not going to believe me, but one day you will. ALL people, no matter WHO they are, are A_HOLES!!! The sooner you guys figure that out, the better off you're going to be in your lives!!" 30 years later, my buddy says: "you know what, Jeff? Your father was RIGHT, and that may very well have been the best advice anyone ever gave me as a kid!" Youth is wasted on the young. | ||
| ToddM |
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Posts: 20218 Location: oswego, il | There are many places that don't have a garbage service. My kids grew up in a place where to this day, garbage is burned. As a society we learn as we grow. Sure we have been recycling forever but we learned how not to let the detroit river catch on fire. It wasn't that horribly long ago. Neither was the sess pool we called lake erie. Anyone remember the SNL commercial for lake erie bottled water called swill? I live near a large factory complex that makes construction equipmemt. Household name company. The factory has been dying for years, most buildings empty and about 1000 employees left. When they finally leave it completely, it will remain a toxic ruin that no one will want to be responsible for. It's a gigantic complex that used to employ nearly 30000 people. I am sure a generation or two from now that young woman will interact with a young person that will remind her of the harm created by her generation Edited by ToddM 1/21/2017 12:30 PM | ||
| Jeremy |
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Posts: 1144 Location: Minnesota. | Some good points made in this topic. Glad to see it's civil as much can be shared/enjoyed by all of us b/c I do feel we're all more cognizant and aware of what it means to ... for example, just have clean water! That alone is enough to make me worry. I really love clear, clean water. I have a terrible time every year coming back from vac. and hitting the Twin Cities lakes!! My main gripe, if I can share it, is the population growth on this planet. It's a finite place to reside and as such, that concerns me to no end. Something to think about. Little will be done about it for the many obvious reasons. Pretty sad. Here's hoping. | ||
| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8781 | What frightens me more than that is what's in the air we breathe. After a week in Canada and a week up in the Northwoods we are usually overwhelmed with the smell as you cross the border back into IL, and that area is still pretty rural. It took a few years before we put 2+2 together, but after several times of accusing each other as the source we realized that it starts right around the state line and gets worse the farther East you go. And the city? Worked downtown for 7 years. Developed a cough that went away about a week after I left that job. Hmmm... | ||
| Junkman |
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Posts: 1220 | Hard not to note 40 years of recycling led to the "junkman" thing. A lot of what you think should make sense is different. Like the diapers my mom's service picked up 67 years ago. The diaper truck burned gas both ways, the energy to heat the water, the water itself, and the waste water treatment costs actually exceed the costs of the disposable. True also of the paper bags. The plastic ones are made of the by-products of the crude we use to make gasoline. The trees we use for paper are a mostly non-renewable resources, heavier to make, transport, (thicker means more trucks) and a whole lot cheaper. Also they go to a underground storage we call sanitary landfills where really nothing much decomposes anyway. Same with glass bottles-the biggest waste of all. You only think that glass is being recycled--it's a fraud. Styrofoam? Don't get me started. When they wrap your BigMac in paper, they throw more away because it does keep as well, more dead cows, wasted grains, veggies, all the trucks that haul all those things, burning diesel fuel and blowing black smoke. When the pimple faced teen hardly looks up to say, "Paper or Plastic,? just take the darn plastic and lump it.....you helped Mother Nature! | ||
| Cfollow |
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| http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-council-to-vote-friday-on-pl... Not sure what is funnier that these clowns think they are saving the environment or the date of the article. April fools indeed! | |||
| North of 8 |
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Junkman - 1/21/2017 6:05 PM Hard not to note 40 years of recycling led to the "junkman" thing. A lot of what you think should make sense is different. Like the diapers my mom's service picked up 67 years ago. The diaper truck burned gas both ways, the energy to heat the water, the water itself, and the waste water treatment costs actually exceed the costs of the disposable. True also of the paper bags. The plastic ones are made of the by-products of the crude we use to make gasoline. The trees we use for paper are a mostly non-renewable resources, heavier to make, transport, (thicker means more trucks) and a whole lot cheaper. Also they go to a underground storage we call sanitary landfills where really nothing much decomposes anyway. Same with glass bottles-the biggest waste of all. You only think that glass is being recycled--it's a fraud. Styrofoam? Don't get me started. When they wrap your BigMac in paper, they throw more away because it does keep as well, more dead cows, wasted grains, veggies, all the trucks that haul all those things, burning diesel fuel and blowing black smoke. When the pimple faced teen hardly looks up to say, "Paper or Plastic,? just take the darn plastic and lump it.....you helped Mother Nature! Marty, you make some very good points. As always, things are not as simple as they sometimes seem. The diaper one being a good example. The weight of those paper bags mean they cost a lot more to transport as well. Being in the business, maybe you can explain why glass does not get recycled/reused. I toured a brewery last year that was just starting to put more beer in aluminum cans and that was part of their reasoning, that a very high percentage of the cans would be recycled, while their traditional brown bottles would not. | |||
| muskydope |
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Posts: 271 Location: davis,IL | Think about this... its kind of an apples vs. oranges argument here. While we are more aware of our environment today, we live in a " throw away" society, everything is disposable. Also the population has more than doubled in the last hundred years, so that's twice ( or more) as much stuff getting dumped. Past generations were more frugal and made due with much less than we do. They were not as " aware" of their environment, it was not something that was a media priority. Industrialization took priority over the environment, that has more or less changed in the western world for the better. But 3rd world countries, China, and such still see industrialization as the first priority.. and the environment suffers. I would venture to say that future generations will also look down on us for not being better stewards of our environment. | ||
| dfkiii |
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 Location: Sawyer County, WI | Cfollow - 1/21/2017 6:28 PM http://www.startribune.com/minneapolis-council-to-vote-friday-on-pl... Not sure what is funnier that these clowns think they are saving the environment or the date of the article. April fools indeed! Is it to "save the environment" or to keep the bags from flying around and getting caught in trees and utility pole/wires and making neighborhoods look like a dump ? I for one would gladly take the plastic bags if they weren't shredding before your left the store. A few stores provide decent plastic bags but most of them are crap that aren't even worth using. Edited by dfkiii 1/21/2017 6:51 PM | ||
| Junkman |
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Posts: 1220 | Glass is of the past. Heavy to haul, expensive to make, redeem, wash out, re-transport. Think of a 44,000 lb truckload of Coke in glass versus plastic. The same ounces of of Coke would take three tractor-trailers to the one with plastic bottles. The PET plastic is easy to recycle and convert to clothing fiber, they only say they are recycling the glass. They mostly landfill even the separated glass they haul special to continue the fraud. It's just too expensive to collect, sort, and reuse. And if container glass gets mixed with (let's say) window glass it's even worse. Glass is going to disappear just as soon as everybody learns the truth and the cost. | ||
| North of 8 |
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Junkman - 1/21/2017 8:26 PM Glass is of the past. Heavy to haul, expensive to make, redeem, wash out, re-transport. Think of a 44,000 lb truckload of Coke in glass versus plastic. The same ounces of of Coke would take three tractor-trailers to the one with plastic bottles. The PET plastic is easy to recycle and convert to clothing fiber, they only say they are recycling the glass. They mostly landfill even the separated glass they haul special to continue the fraud. It's just too expensive to collect, sort, and reuse. And if container glass gets mixed with (let's say) window glass it's even worse. Glass is going to disappear just as soon as everybody learns the truth and the cost. Thanks for the reply. I do like beer from a bottle but then I normally pour in a pint glass anyway, so maybe that is something I should rethink. The brewery tour was the first I had heard so much of it was not recycled. | |||
| North of 8 |
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| Just out of curiosity after Marty's comments on glass, I weighed an empty 12 oz beer bottle and a comparable sized aluminum beer can. The bottle weighed over 7.5 ounces and the can was approx. .7 ounces. The weight of the bottle surprised me. An empty PET water bottle barely registered on my digital food scale (without cap). | |||
| esoxriebe |
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Posts: 95 | Bottled water and plastic bags are 2 things I won't buy or use. If you really want to see the impact those bags are having go take a look at the Chicago harbors on a clear day they blow right out of the garbage truck and I would bet millions of them are in the lake. I have finally got at least 5 friends to stop bringing cases of bottled water to Canada I used to go up with the Muskie club and 15 guys would haul in 20-30 cases of bottled water. I would just laugh at them and drink the water straight out of the lake now I use a filter when I feel like it but 30 years of drinking that water with no filtration hasn't hurt me yet. I used to think to myself I can't believe these idiots are hauling water into the place with the cleanest water on earth then leaving 500 empty plastic bottles in frank walsh's garbage at the bay store to be burnt in the garbage pile. | ||
| jlong |
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Posts: 1937 Location: Black Creek, WI | As a paper manufacturer... I'd like to point out that trees are very much a renewable resource. | ||
| dtaijo174 |
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Posts: 1169 Location: New Hope MN | How's fishing? | ||
| horsehunter |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I admit to taking bottled water in the boat but I do bring the empties home and recycle. I freeze the bottles and use them to keep lunch cool and drink them as they thaw usually 2 or 3 a day. At home we drink our well water and wouldn't consider opening a bottle Edited by horsehunter 1/26/2017 2:07 PM | ||
| North of 8 |
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| From what I understand, almost all water bottles are recycled. At least those that get put in recycle bins. For the boat, I fill several cheap metal bottles I bought a Walgreens. In the fall I do use water bottles 'cuz I keep forgetting them and they don't break when they freeze. Something we started doing a while back was using those cloth bags for groceries. They hold a lot more, sit flat in the car and you don't end up with 6 bags for $30 worth of groceries. Those plastic bags are a pain, they seem to end up everywhere. In trees, ditches, fences. Wasn't there an effort a while back to make them out of a corn starch product that would break down in the sun? Wonder what happened with that. | |||
| Kirby Budrow |
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Posts: 2325 Location: Chisholm, MN | jlong - 1/26/2017 11:39 AM As a paper manufacturer... I'd like to point out that trees are very much a renewable resource. As a state forester, I 100% agree! | ||
| setme31 |
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Posts: 516 Location: Kildeer, IL | Chicago just started the $.07 tax on plastic (and paper) bags today. http://abc7chicago.com/news/chicago-repeals-plastic-bag-ban-starts-... Seems pretty stupid to me. $.07 isn't going to curtail the use of disposable bags. The only thing it is going to do is create another form of income for the most corrupt city in the US. Edited by setme31 2/1/2017 2:03 PM | ||
| Slamr |
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Posts: 7038 Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Kirby Budrow - 1/26/2017 6:13 PM jlong - 1/26/2017 11:39 AM As a paper manufacturer... I'd like to point out that trees are very much a renewable resource. As a state forester, I 100% agree! Honest question: yes/no, does paper biodegrade? I have heard that newspaper does not. | ||
| North of 8 |
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setme31 - 2/1/2017 1:59 PM Chicago just started the $.07 tax on plastic (and paper) bags today. http://abc7chicago.com/news/chicago-repeals-plastic-bag-ban-starts-... Seems pretty stupid to me. $.07 isn't going to curtail the use of disposable bags. The only thing it is going to do is create another form of income for the most corrupt city in the US. I think it might actually make a difference. While 7 cents is not a lot of money, when you shop for groceries, you don't need to buy a lot to have 7, 8 or 9 bags. Aldi's does a good business and they charge more than that for bags, so most folks bring their own reusable bags. We are empty nesters and we have started using reusable fabric bags because of how many of those plastic bags we were getting every week. The Walmart near our home has a big box near the front door where you can drop used bags and people do bring a lot of them in and not just Walmart bags but still a lot of them end up everywhere, ditches, trees fields and I live in the North woods. | |||
| cabbage |
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Posts: 31 | Thanks for your post horsehunter. Im 35 and have the utmost appreciation and respect for our country's greatest generation. The freedoms and luxuries we enjoy today are largely in part to that generations sacrifices and hard work. It's a lot to ask to expect any common sense from folks my age and younger. To have a conversation about where we were in the 40s, 50s and 60s compared to current day would be a great conversation to have with my generation and younger... However, it'd be a long conversation and the maximum attention span of the younger generations tops out at 12 minutes.... | ||
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