|
|
Posts: 134
| Anybody hear some of these baits are now plastic and not wood? I got a report that the 10 inchers r plastic to keep up with demand? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 755
| Did your source confuse the Custom X shift from All wood to some wood baits and others made in Plastic. I would highly doubt Super Natural would try and slide that under the radar and keep charging the same price. I just dont see that happening given the people behind the product. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1296
Location: WI | Think I read that a year ago some were made of plastic, and other sizes were wood. But I think they're all wood. Ask Duff on Facebook, or he'll probably reply here. Awesome lures! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | I seriously don't know what the fuss is all about considering wood vs. plastic....Did you know that these days you can actually control the weight and densities of certain plastics? So many more bait makers are moving away from wood....Do you know why? Inconsistencies and inconveniences....You can never control what nature has made and no two pieces of wood are the same. In production bait making, I feel that is a serious drawback for me. Wood also breaks down quicker, is less durable and water logs...My baits are made from plastic basically...have you ever seen the action of them? IMO there are few crankbaits on the market that pound and move like mine...
If Duff makes them from plastic and achieves the same action, which is totally possible, it would benefit not only him, but all those who buy the baits. So whats the difference? It would make all those "tree huggers" a little happier too!  |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | ShutUpNFish - 1/29/2015 1:03 PM
I seriously don't know what the fuss is all about considering wood vs. plastic....Did you know that these days you can actually control the weight and densities of certain plastics? So many more bait makers are moving away from wood....Do you know why? Inconsistencies and inconveniences....You can never control what nature has made and no two pieces of wood are the same. In production bait making, I feel that is a serious drawback for me. Wood also breaks down quicker, is less durable and water logs...My baits are made from plastic basically...have you ever seen the action of them? IMO there are few crankbaits on the market that pound and move like mine...
If Duff makes them from plastic and achieves the same action, which is totally possible, it would benefit not only him, but all those who buy the baits. So whats the difference? It would make all those "tree huggers" a little happier too! :)
I think the point is if they are now plastic can the same price be justified considering most of the original price was due to the labor involved in making the bait from wood. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 750
Location: Minneapolis, MN | CiscoKid - 1/30/2015 10:05 AM
ShutUpNFish - 1/29/2015 1:03 PM
I seriously don't know what the fuss is all about considering wood vs. plastic....Did you know that these days you can actually control the weight and densities of certain plastics? So many more bait makers are moving away from wood....Do you know why? Inconsistencies and inconveniences....You can never control what nature has made and no two pieces of wood are the same. In production bait making, I feel that is a serious drawback for me. Wood also breaks down quicker, is less durable and water logs...My baits are made from plastic basically...have you ever seen the action of them? IMO there are few crankbaits on the market that pound and move like mine...
If Duff makes them from plastic and achieves the same action, which is totally possible, it would benefit not only him, but all those who buy the baits. So whats the difference? It would make all those "tree huggers" a little happier too! :)
I think the point is if they are now plastic can the same price be justified considering most of the original price was due to the labor involved in making the bait from wood.
The price is justified as long as people are willing to pay said price. If it's still a unique bait and they don't produce a lot of them, then the price will probably stay up there. Personally I pay for what an item does, what it's made out of only comes into play if different materials lead to a different experience. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 455
| Here they are going to be plastic. People want wood. Ever see anybody looking for plastic Tuff shads on the trade section. I have not. As soon as the switch takes place the price on the wood will double. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | First, FYI theres a lot of work that goes into poured plastic lures....each has their pros and cons in regards to building them, something you would have to experience first hand before passing such judgment. Theres a lot of work that goes into any hand crafted lure...
Second, If you read my post you will see that I mention keeping action, shape, lip the same....The action, shape, etc. of the old tuff shads compared to the new plastic ones are not comparable....two totally different lures. And yes, I do see some people preferring the new ones, yes... I did say, however, that with the same lip design and resin body of the preferred weight will do the same thing.
wood or plastic are simply materials that make up a lure....whats it really matter as long as it produces fish or performs the way the angler wants? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 246
Location: Grand Marais, MN | I think first we should find out from the guys making them before we speculate on everything
But in regards to plastic versus wood, it is difficult to get a lure of same weight AND buoyancy, materials are just hard to match most of the time. I don't think they will be the same, not to say they will be worse, just different. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 253
Location: On the water | I bought a Headlock at the Chicago Musky Show and it was wood and they didn't say anything about a plastic version, all they had was wood.
Good Luck, Tom |
|
| |
|
Posts: 742
Location: Grand Rapids MN | There are quality baits made in all materials. I agree with Paul that the water doesn't care what it's made out as long as the characteristics that create the action are the same. This is to put it shortly.
The responses to this post stem deeper than just supernaturals going plastic. There has been a lot of 'haters' popping up in the basement section relating to lure construction. Even recently poor James simply asked if anyone has used rapid prototyping to test concepts for baits only to get responses of 'plastic china junk' and not being a true lure maker. Only a few true responses out of the whole thread that addressed his question.
There are a lot of plastic/resin baits made in the USA that are quality products and have been around for a long time. Granted James admits his baits are made overseas in order to compete in that market but I also don't think there is a wood bait maker out there at this second that has given back to the community more than he has. Support what you want personally by buying their products as I will continue to purchase what I want and works for me. There's a spot in my box for my beloved wood baits and a spot for my 'other' material baits. Doubt you will ever not see a Jake, Grandma, DDD, Hammer, or Legend lure in my box anytime soon! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 6
| If the bait catches fish....which it does, then people will pay for it.
Standard economics at its finest right here! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | ShutUpNFish - 1/30/2015 10:57 AM
First, FYI theres a lot of work that goes into poured plastic lures....each has their pros and cons in regards to building them, something you would have to experience first hand before passing such judgment. Theres a lot of work that goes into any hand crafted lure...
Second, If you read my post you will see that I mention keeping action, shape, lip the same....The action, shape, etc. of the old tuff shads compared to the new plastic ones are not comparable....two totally different lures. And yes, I do see some people preferring the new ones, yes... I did say, however, that with the same lip design and resin body of the preferred weight will do the same thing.
wood or plastic are simply materials that make up a lure....whats it really matter as long as it produces fish or performs the way the angler wants?
I didn't say it took less work with the plastic, nor did I say it wasn't worth as much if plastic. At least not to all anglers. Some may feel that plastic baits just aren't worth as much. That is their right, and that will show up with sales.
There are usually two reasons baitmakers go to plastic. One is consistency, and the other is ease of manufacturing. I doubt if the switch is made to plastic if it actually makes it more difficult and time consuming to make, but I could be wrong.
Some anglers want wood, and some want plastic. Some baitmakers want to build out of wood, and some out of plastic.
Whenever there is a change to a bait, whether it be the material of how it is made, the anglers will get nervous. Sometimes the change is to the better, and other times it is not. Accept the fact that we will question the change and if it is worthwhile due to us worrying about if the bait will continue to be productive and worth the money. As a consumer we have the right to question price whether it be vocally or through our actions. It doesn't matter if it is lures, cars, houses, or whatever.
Ever haggle on the price of a car, or on a house? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 411
Location: Waconia,MN | I'm totally on board with Paul. I just recently started building baits, some of plastic and wood. It's cheaper for me to build them outta wood, and probably more time consuming to make them out of plastic. Downhillski is right on the money, if it catches fish what does it matter |
|
| |
|
Posts: 791
Location: WI | I know for a fact that at least 8 headlocks that were purchased from Chicago are resin.
I don't think the issue here is what is better or stronger or even more work. The issue is that they were sold as wood lures and are not. At 80+ bucks they would be the most expensive resin baits ever.
I get it as we make the all of our baits from wood and have been messing around with resin for our gliders to help with weighting. There is no question that resin still take time. But it is less time. And once it comes time to paint there is no question that there is less work involved. No sealing. Less priming. Those who only make from resin can argue this but I have done a. Good deal of both and there is no question. I have a full wood shop with high quality tools and I know how to use them. I have far less experience with resin and I'm still faster with it.
I think the question here is more the way that it is kept secret. I have to assume for fear that it will effect sales. But as I told my friends who have there resin headlocks , how will this effect things once it is common knowledge. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 600
| I think we need the maker, Duff, to chime in on this one. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 791
Location: WI | I agree. Although he has addressed it to those who questioned it and some of them are resin. It is really up to duff to address it publicly.
I don't mean to cause trouble it's just that as an owners of a number of these I want what was advertised. These things are bought and sold like stocks and I want to know that if I buy a resin bait I know it. I personally think that this will change how these are traded. When this came out on Fb first thing I did is drill a pin hole in. The belly to see what my newer ones were. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 455
| Just curious but how did you notice they were different? |
|
| |
|
Posts: 600
| His facebook page says they are made of western red cedar. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 411
Location: Waconia,MN | Well the material should still not affect the price, if it still has the same action. I could understand wanting to return it if you're a person who only likes to use just wood, but too return it cause you think you may have paid to much for a resin bait doesn't make sense, it's still a headlock. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1202
Location: Money, PA | No argument or problems or trouble guys...it is healthy good wholesome debate and/or sharing of opinions.....Before I go any further, I want to stress that I do read and appreciate everyone's posts of opinion with an open mind, as long as everyone does the same, we should be able to discuss this topic without chaos....
I make a resin bait...there are really no "secrets"...remember, theres something out there called google. I admit I did some searching when I first started and watched some videos, etc. But do not think those may all work for your application, because I alpplied little to works works for me that I found online. Trial and error after some online research is the way to go for your application. I often get asked how I do it or what percentages I mix...I do not often answer not because its a secret, but because what works for me, may not work for you...
I personally stopped using wood, because I developed allergies to the dust of certain woods I was using; so I decided to move to resin....Is it less work? Perhaps a little, but the real question is "Is a resin bait less work from start to finish?" Certain processes which are almost essential with resin make the start to finish process about the same for me. I guess it all has to do with many factors like shapes, sizes and quality of finish.
Now back to topic....If the new headlocks came out in plastic or resin and had that same action; Theres NO DOUBT in my mind, I would want the plastic. For various/obvious reasons....kinda like aluminum vs. carbon arrows...an analogy I've been using for years; even back when aluminum arrow guys thought they still had an argument. Does anyone even use aluminum arrows anymore?? In closing, coming from an old school Wiley Wood guy....Wood scares me more; because like a good friend stated to me through a recent email...."Many forget the days of buying 6 wooden Reef Hogs just to get one good one."
Bottom line is that if theres something that ain't right about how one of my baits runs, its totally not beyond my control to fix it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 600
| I totally agree with Paul about resin baits. ^^^^^^^ The only thing with the supernatural baits is that he is advertising them as wood. If he wants to change to resin, he just needs to make it public knowledge to his consumers. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1148
| muddymusky - 2/2/2015 2:29 PM
I totally agree with Paul about resin baits. ^^^^^^^ The only thing with the supernatural baits is that he is advertising them as wood. If he wants to change to resin, he just needs to make it public knowledge to his consumers.
X2. Think, HI plastic Suicks = Perfection! I for one, love the consistency of the plastic lures. Win, win in my book. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2097
| I prefer plastic crankbaits. When you catch a lot of fish the bait takes a lot of abuse. I want the durability of plastic over wood any day. |
|
| |
|
| I prefer wood baits. Probably more pro's to plastic but if I have a choice, I would take the wood. Kinda like a rock star prefers old wood guitars to modern Wood or other material In most cases yet I'm sure they have all types. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 455
| Lot of people still use wood arrows. Byron Ferguson comes to mind. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 921
Location: Apollo, PA | Well, my opinion on wood vs resin, is I could care less as long as they catch fish. I am older and grew up with wooden baits, but look at the legend lures, they have caught tons of fish and big ones.
I do know Duff, and he will always put out a great product, he is old school. As far as price, that is up to the market demands, resin baits in my mind shouldn't be cheaper cause they are resin.
Prices are up to the makers, you either buy the baits or you don't. I hope Duff chimes in soon. His baits are certainly unique , but are being knocked off as we speak...... I know, it happens, and doesn't have anything to do with this issue.
Grandmas started out as wood, but I think the plastic ones have done pretty well..lol and how bout the depthraiders, great bait, and plastic. So on and so forth |
|
| |
|
Posts: 455
| You have it backwards the consumer drives the price. It remains to be seen if people will pay. It is pointless to argue what is better because the consumer buys what they want. I have a few but will not be buying any plastic no matter how they work because I like wood. I got rid of all my plastic baits years ago and am never going back. Why because that's what I want. Those who don`t care what they are made of I`m sure will still buy them. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 921
Location: Apollo, PA | semantics, whatevaaaaaaa |
|
| |
|
Posts: 122
| muddymusky - 2/1/2015 1:31 PM
His facebook page says they are made of western red cedar.
It looks like the page has changed and no longer says what they are made from. |
|
| |
