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BSG |
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Posts: 61 | Here's my take on this deal. Live 20 minutes from Sugar, fished a lot out there for skis, and its been a decent lake. That being said, I've also speared a few times, but prefer to angle out a spear hole. As far as managing the lake for the future, this seems wrong to me. I'm not a fisheries biologist or anything but this isn't the right thing to do. Why would they put all these years of C&R and size limits on a "musky lake" only to allow spearing in the lake, and put the slight chance out there that someone may accidently or purposely spear a musky? It's not IF its going to happen, it's when, and how many times. Want to take hammer handle northerns out of these lakes? How about the DNR goes out there in the spring in the creeks and shallows and physically take them out and take record. I also think this may be just the beginning of something to come, in 5 years, who knows, maybe they open Leech, Bemidji, Mille lacs and Miltona. | ||
| NewKidonBlock |
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Posts: 10 | Always a fun discussion. Long story short....Spearing just does not HELP the Muskie populations. Only hurts it. Sad to see...hopefully we don't see an effect from this in the next 5-10 years when it comes to Muskies reproducing | ||
| nocturnalmotors |
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Posts: 373 Location: Maine Township, MN | My folks have a place on West Battle. I fish it a lot for all species. Mostly muskie and walleye. This was a blindsided attack. There was no communication to the lakeshore owners that this was going to happen. How were we supposed to defend the muskies??? WB has a pike slot also. How are spearers supposed to tell if their pike is <24" or >36"??? This makes no sence to me! The comments earlier about "up north" anglers wanting all muskies dead is pretty true from the comments I've heard at a particular bait shop and other folks around the area. The old owner made a comment to me that she wished every muskie caught would have it's belly slit and thrown back into the lake and that she tells all her customers that. Wow. This is a really big mess! Edited by nocturnalmotors 12/10/2013 4:03 PM | ||
| BFD |
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Posts: 19 | Moltisanti, I think you may have misinterpreted my post. We are not trying to create a trophy pike fishery, but simply a healthy fishery in general. The lakes around central MN have the potential to be great fisheries but so many are just overrun with stunted hammer handle pike. Slots don't work on every single lake nor should they be put on every lake. You can still harvest fish on slot limit lakes also no one is being denied that right. Stunted pike have negative impacts on walleye stocking, perch populations, and they simply are a pain the azz! Spearers don't want hammer handle pike, they want the bigger fish. We have a MDAA member in our MI chapter that swears up and down he doesn't stick the big fish and gives them a pass. The next meeting he will show you the 16lber and 12 lber him and the son got last weekend. In central and northern mn we have a lot of seasonal workers that are unemployed in the winter, myself included. Lots of these folks don't have time to fish open water but have all the time in the world to fish in the winter and put in some serious hours. It doesn't take long to knock down the population of big fish and we are seeing this very clearly on many of our waters. | ||
| Nershi |
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Location: MN | BSG - 12/10/2013 3:26 PM I also think this may be just the beginning of something to come, in 5 years, who knows, maybe they open Leech, Bemidji, Mille lacs and Miltona. They allow pike spearing on Leech. Same as Winnie. I know a resort owner on Leech who rents spear houses. He informs all of his customers that you cannot spear muskies and even has pictures comparing the two including pics from above. He said each year a few nice muskies are stuck in his houses by customers. Most are accidental but he has caught guys trying to sneak them home. He also said he has found muskies slid under the ice by the houses. Like others have said it is not IF but how many and how often. I think allowing pike spearing on small lakes is going to have a much quicker and dramatic effect than some of the big lakes like Leech. | ||
| thrax_johnson |
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Posts: 313 Location: Bemidji, Lake Vermilion | The leadership of the MDAA have stated their goal in MN in the future, and more near future than distant, is that they want the privilege of spearing muskies. Much of what is taking place right now and in the recent years leading up to now are steps towards making that happen. They have no dog in the fight over proposed/potential increases in muskie length limits in MN, but have vowed to fight any increase with everything they have. Those increases work towards protecting the largest fish from harvest - by any method including angling. It presents another obstacle to muskies ever being allowed to be legally speared in MN. Incidental or even intentional spearing of muskies under current regulations is bad enough for the populations, although its going to happen and we all have to live with that. Education is still the best thing we can do. Talk to people. We can't "fix" all the bad apples and never will, but there are people we can get through to. Those are the ones that matter and we can't alienate. That said, we must not get to the point where legalized muskie spearing is allowed. We should not all think that the DNR will never allow it either, as ultimately they won't decide this but it will be a legislative situation and it could happen. Politicians have proven over and over, you can't count on them to do the right thing. Lastly, there IS a major issue with pike management in MN in general, hammerhandle syndrome is affecting huge numbers of lakes. Pike do need a voice in MN and something needs to be done to more proactively manage them to bring many of these affected lakes back to some kind of normalcy. The constant complaints about lack of walleyes, perch, panfish in these lakes relate back to this problem all the time, the pike are simply eating the guts right out of the lakes. | ||
| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8866 | While I see the concern, I can't imagine that the DNR would allow musky spearing considering the amount of time and money they've spent creating trophy musky fisheries and the revenue that brings in. I also have to wonder why anyone would spear the larger pike, and larger muskies for that matter. One meal of either should tell anyone with taste buds that the smaller pike make the best table fare. And I don't think anyone who has fished a lake that's overrun with small pike can deny that eating them would be good for the fishery. I see why many folks see this as a giant step backwards, but it's really only because they are afraid people will spear muskies every chance they get, which is not allowed now, and likely will not be allowed. Sure, a couple idiots will go out there and kill them intentionally, but we have people doing that already. I've found dead muskies on several occasions that were obviously killed on purpose. I've talked to folks who admitted to killing them for reasons stated above. My standard answer there is "yah, walleyes eat a LOT of muskies when the muskies first hatch. That's why I eat walleyes as often as I can! Keep 'em from eating my muskies!!" I figure if one out of ten gets angry and then figures out that killing muskies to save the walleyes is as stupid as eating walleyes to save the muskies, I've done my job. As for the other 9?? f--- 'em. You can't fix stupid. Most of those guys don't know #*#* about #*#* and probably don't catch many fish anyway. | ||
| Kirby Budrow |
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Posts: 2389 Location: Chisholm, MN | This was discussed a little last winter. I can't remember when I first heard it, but I did talk with the MMPA about it at the MN expo too. So this is not a total surprise right now. Addict, I can't understand someone wanting to spear a giant pike either but it happens constantly. my uncle speared a 41 and said he would never do it again. Then the next year he speared another 41 and they are both on the wall. He said he just couldn't resist. he's also not a very good fisherman, but has killed 3 big ones that I know of. What I'm saying is that it doesn't take a lot of skill. Edited by Kirby Budrow 12/10/2013 7:55 PM | ||
| Shoot2Kill |
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Posts: 158 | Can anyone explain how this bill was passed? I feel ignorant to the fact I had no clue something like this was on the table. How can anyone have a reasonable argument to defend the muskie side if one doesnt even know the agument needs to exist! 9900 other lakes to spear on and this happens while new stocking efforts take an act of god. | ||
| thrax_johnson |
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Posts: 313 Location: Bemidji, Lake Vermilion | There are a surprising number of people on this board who seem to have been caught off guard by the news this post started off with. I'd like to say there are also people who knew this was coming. Muskie fisherman are often not connected very well with one another. I'd encourage any of you in MN who are interested to join your area Muskies Inc organization, get their newsletters and attend some meetings. You'd have more than likely known this was happening if you did. Even if you're not a member, go to a few meetings in your area, they are open to the public. All MN Muskies Inc Chapters are also members/have at least a representative that attends the MMPA meetings. These changes have been in the works for some time, and are not new news, they were going to happen regardless of any action of the MMPA or other groups. It is my understanding that rather than fight a battle (like over the opening of Cass Lake to spearing) that is doomed to losing, it was better to live and fight on another day. To the best of my knowledge, the DNR was fully in support of removing these spearing bans. If you want to have a voice then please do something to stand up and be counted. The MN DNR and the states politicians don't frequent the muskie forum boards. Join a club, get involved somehow. Contact your legislators and let them know how you feel about decisions like this. | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32958 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Here's something more important: http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=91... | ||
| Moltisanti |
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Posts: 639 Location: Hudson, WI | BFD - 12/10/2013 4:05 PM Moltisanti, I think you may have misinterpreted my post. We are not trying to create a trophy pike fishery, but simply a healthy fishery in general. The lakes around central MN have the potential to be great fisheries but so many are just overrun with stunted hammer handle pike. Slots don't work on every single lake nor should they be put on every lake. You can still harvest fish on slot limit lakes also no one is being denied that right. Stunted pike have negative impacts on walleye stocking, perch populations, and they simply are a pain the azz! Spearers don't want hammer handle pike, they want the bigger fish. We have a MDAA member in our MI chapter that swears up and down he doesn't stick the big fish and gives them a pass. The next meeting he will show you the 16lber and 12 lber him and the son got last weekend. In central and northern mn we have a lot of seasonal workers that are unemployed in the winter, myself included. Lots of these folks don't have time to fish open water but have all the time in the world to fish in the winter and put in some serious hours. It doesn't take long to knock down the population of big fish and we are seeing this very clearly on many of our waters. I hear ya, BFD. I'm not trying to say that it doesn't matter. I fish Miltona and WB a bit and those are some fantastic bodies of water. You hate to have a good thing get screwed up, and spearing the big pike and turning the lake into a snake pit is a bad deal for everyone. My only point was that there is a way to handle business and some of the guys in the MMPA and in general are sorely in need of a little salesmanship and PR ability. | ||
| jamesb |
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Posts: 68 | I also think that muskie guys are in need of some PR ability sometimes as well. Too often we act like we are the only people to fish the lake. While I agree that spearing is not a positive for muskies, I think a better approach would be to look to educate people who are spearing. A statement like "hey, we really respect what you do and it seems like a good time, but please just be careful of the muskie as there have been great efforts to get them stocked" -- works much better than accusing every person who spears of killing muskies intentionally and putting a whole group of people on the defensive when most people who are spearing are probably doing it very ethically. Lets be honest, not every muskie fisherman does things ethically either (i.e. "northern" fishing in the middle of may in closed zones) and I'm sure there plenty of people who target muskies or keep them during regulare ice fishing. | ||
| Pointerpride102 |
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Posts: 16632 Location: The desert | jamesb - 12/11/2013 1:33 PM I also think that muskie guys are in need of some PR ability sometimes as well. Too often we act like we are the only people to fish the lake. While I agree that spearing is not a positive for muskies, I think a better approach would be to look to educate people who are spearing. A statement like "hey, we really respect what you do and it seems like a good time, but please just be careful of the muskie as there have been great efforts to get them stocked" -- works much better than accusing every person who spears of killing muskies intentionally and putting a whole group of people on the defensive when most people who are spearing are probably doing it very ethically. Lets be honest, not every muskie fisherman does things ethically either (i.e. "northern" fishing in the middle of may in closed zones) and I'm sure there plenty of people who target muskies or keep them during regulare ice fishing. Bingo. | ||
| Shoot2Kill |
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Posts: 158 | So I dont get it. People knew this was going to happen and I dont see one post on here calling peoples attention to it. When the ban was lifted on Cass the fight that went into it the first time (before it was backdoored) was what should have been happening for the last 9 months if there was talk of this at the expo. I see nothing on HSO either. As much as I hate to see FB being the only way to get the word out I see nothing on my local chapters page or the twin cities page either. Why is it so quiet about this huge issue!! Im was on the volunteer fire dept until recently and our meetings were always the night of my muskies inc chapter meetings so I havent been able to attend. Something had to give in my schedule so I had to quit the dept and now will be attending the chapter meetings and want to get heavily involved in stopping this backdoor BS. If we dont put up one helluva fight now and their ultimate goal is the legalization of spearing muskies (by backdooring it!!!) my kids wont have a reason to ever muskie fish. The fire has been lit. | ||
| Kirby Budrow |
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Posts: 2389 Location: Chisholm, MN | The reason is that when we heard about it, it already happened and it was too late. This was a while ago, but people are just hearing about it now because there is ice on the lakes and spearing is open. | ||
| Shoot2Kill |
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Posts: 158 | I see it now in Feb, love it how there is zero public input. SOB Im behind the curve, time to change that. | ||
| Propster |
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Posts: 1901 Location: MN | Pointerpride102 - 12/11/2013 6:56 PM jamesb - 12/11/2013 1:33 PM I also think that muskie guys are in need of some PR ability sometimes as well. Too often we act like we are the only people to fish the lake. While I agree that spearing is not a positive for muskies, I think a better approach would be to look to educate people who are spearing. A statement like "hey, we really respect what you do and it seems like a good time, but please just be careful of the muskie as there have been great efforts to get them stocked" -- works much better than accusing every person who spears of killing muskies intentionally and putting a whole group of people on the defensive when most people who are spearing are probably doing it very ethically. Lets be honest, not every muskie fisherman does things ethically either (i.e. "northern" fishing in the middle of may in closed zones) and I'm sure there plenty of people who target muskies or keep them during regulare ice fishing. Bingo. No question you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. But let's be realistic. As someone stated earlier, the DNR and the MDAA are not waiting breathlessly to see what the next poster will say on this forum. The rantings and ravings of a few on here that some take as bashing and bullying and unmindful of anyone else's position or viewpoint, is really not very representative of the majority of the work and dealings that people like Shawn Kellet and John Underwood put forth in lobbying for us and negotiating with, the people that will ultimately make these decisions. And remember, muskie fishing, while seemingly extremely popular and too crowded at times, is a small cottage industry really. That's why you guys can't get all your favorite reels in left hand, or that no company makes the perfect reel in your opinion - there just aren't enough of us. The point being we don't have a highly paid professional lobby working for us. So I'm not going to bash those that work so hard on our behalf to propagate and protect our sport, which helps the owner of this site even have such a site where we can all mouth off on such subjects. Sure there's a few among us who are greedy or selfish or rude, what group of people doesn't have these? But I want to be able for my kids and their kids to be fishing for these fish for a long time to come. When we know it's a fact that the desire of some others is to harpoon them when they can, yea I say that's worth defending. It doesn't help when they have a legislator in their back pocket that allows them to go around what we would consider normal due process. While I agree that we could use a tuneup in how we deal with the general, non-musky fishing public, some that we are dealing with operate at a whole different level, and it will take some different tactics to preserve our sport. Nice will only get you so far. | ||
| JAT |
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Posts: 28 | Has anyone seen any spear houses out on Sugar yet? | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32958 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | 'Nice' has nothing to do with is. Fight hard, ruthlessly, and with very direct, absolutely accurate and proven fact; deal with reality, be level, and direct, and don't call names or mindlessly argue. The second you do, you lose. Caution, bad language by a very funny Ron White: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkXsrz_Qrl8 | ||
| Ben Olsen |
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| This thread is disappointing! One day we, as sportsman, will regret the infighting! Anyone who spears any fish with the intent to waste them is not a sportsman! Anyone who kills for the sake of killing has major issues! These are outliers. The exceptions. I refuse to apply blanket statements to my sporting brothers because of the "bad apples". I proudly support the spearers right to spear! I support the right of an angler to harvest a legal catch(including muskies). I fear for the future of these rights! Look at the situation in the Florida Everglades NP and Boca Grande Pass. Anti-sporting groups have used infighting amongst sportsman to make major progress in limiting access entirely! We have a unique system in this country that allows us proper channels to create change. Sure, it's not perfect, it's run by people. But, for the most part, we have managed to do pretty well for ourselves and for our wildlife. Muskie populations are bigger than ever. Deer populations are good. Walleye populations are strong. Not one single species targeted by sportsman in MN(or anywhere else) is in danger of extinction. I'm glad folks are fighting for good management of their favorite specie but not at the cost of someone else's tradition or rights. | |||
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