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| Message Subject: What the Heck happened??? | |||
Ranger |
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Posts: 3931 | In the voice of M. McConaughey..... "When? When? When. Time's a flat circle, man." $10 to the first person who names the reference. I wish I had more to contribute, but I moved way south and all my attention is toward learning walleye in Bull Shoals Lake. I joined and remain loyal to the site because of all the good it does. | ||
| raftman |
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Posts: 619 Location: WI | Slamr - 7/22/2026 3:01 PM SouthernMNMuskie - 7/16/2026 11:12 AM I find it funny that everyone is attacking the money aspect on it when that is the exact reason my friends don't muskie fish. I have asked my friends. We do talk every once in a while (even face-to-face if you would believe it). Mille Lacs, Vermillion, LOTW, Leech, Cass, Minnetonka are all huge lakes that require a little more than a 16ft boat. Yes, you can fish the small lakes in Southern MN just fine with a 16ft boat pulled by a SUV (look at used car prices, still very expensive) but you're going to spend hours upon hours chasing mid 30s to low 40s fish. Mind as well just pike fish lakes instead with the same size structure and more action. I see how you may think it costs less than that to get into the sport but in reality, it IS that much. You can't expect any sane person (even the type that wants to muskie fish) to drop 10k for a trash setup that lets you fish small southern MN lakes for low density fish. I also find it funny the older generation always blames phones, attention spans, and lack of ambition for why hobbies are dying out. No, it's the fact that a double cowgirl is the same cost as two hours at most kids' minimum wage job haha. Not everyone lived in a time where college was cheap, you could buy a house for $100K, and your state pension and social security could allow you to safely float through retirement. Yes, the younger generations are far from perfect and have their problems but accessibility and barriers to entry are to blame along with the surly gatekeepers of information that refuse to help anyone out. I'm all for putting in the work and figuring it out yourself but just remember someone taught all of you to walk, talk, and read. But maybe I'm just wrong and "spoon fed" for realizing that I was fortunate enough to have someone help me get into the sport. I went back and read this. Can't say you're wrong. What I think is too bad is that there aren't older fishers out there wanting to take newer fishers out fishing. We ALL had that guy that had a boat before we could afford one. But honestly, wouldnt surprise me one bit with the rise of the elitist attitudes by many in muskies, that no one is helping anyone get on the water. Would the boat be big enough or the fishery have enough 50’s if those elitist musky folks offered? Joking…Kind of. | ||
| SouthernMNMuskie |
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Posts: 20 | Raftman, you're again missing my point. I'm not saying anyone needs a 21-foot yar craft or to only be able to fish on waters with 50" muskies all year long. I'm saying, if you want to not waste your time you should probably get something that can handle larger waters (where the MN DNR primarily stocks muskies or are native). There's no reason to risk life and limb in a 16' pond hopper chasing muskies. Believe me I have been there. I grew up fishing in a 1976 Lund Tri Haul that was bright turquoise and so #*^@ ugly it turned heads for the wrong reason (look it up). The reason we finally got a new boat is because we almost died fishing Wakemup Bay on Vermillion in the fall when the waves started lapping over the transom and we started taking on water like a sieve. It's not that you need to have a guide level setup, but it should be safe enough to take out 90% of days on water that can produce a couple quality fish in a week. | ||
| Slamr |
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Posts: 7131 Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | I think the boat debate has a different answer for everyone. I kayak ponds and rivers near me because the lakes are at least an hour. I use my Tuffy on Lake Michigan to smaller lakes when Mother Nature allows. BUT, MOST days I can't go out because I'd die or at least have no fun fishing while avoiding dying. Same reason I won't plan a trip on St. Clair with my little 1760. You buy as much as you can to fit as much as you can! Do you have to get an $80K superboat, nah, but it definitely makes the day better. I love fishing with my little tupperware (though it is pretty pimped out) and I love fishing out of my obscenly over pimped 20 yr old boat....but I'd love a 21'er if anyone is giving them away! | ||
| Muskie101 |
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Posts: 245 Location: Rochester, New York | Financial reasons, other people on the water not fishing ruining things for everyone (was trolling one time and had someone on a jet ski come right next to us like she was trying to run over the planer board and was fishing in a small boat yesterday and had someone go flying down the lake twice and stop right next to us and turn around go back down and do it again), wake propulsion boats destroying spots, tournaments, etc | ||
| Muskie101 |
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Posts: 245 Location: Rochester, New York | Slopski - 7/16/2026 3:48 PM "but you're going to spend hours upon hours chasing mid 30s to low 40s fish. Mind as well just pike fish lakes instead with the same size structure and more action." This makes me sad. I think the internet has ruined musky fishing for new comers. Maybe i read this wrong, but being bummed on chasing mid 30's to low 40's feels wrong. If your getting into Musky's to chase internet numbers on big waters i feel bad for you. I think stocked fish kind of does ruin the thrill a little (not in natural areas helping the populations rebound) as example compare Waneta Lake to the St Lawrence River | ||
| R/T |
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Posts: 109 | I hesitated to come back to this thread but decided to in the event other young fisherman are viewing. Regarding the boat need, I stumbled across a Woods and Waters episode the other night from 1992 with Gillespie and Maina. It appeared to me Pete was fishing out of a Tuffy Esox Magnum with a 60hp Evinrude. That was a popular muskie fishing boat in WI at the time. I do not know the exact specs on the boat but I would think it no more than 17ft and does not look like like a steep dead rise. Maybe Pete never left Hayward back then but on the episode they were catching muskies. Recon has taken up making this boat again and I did look one up. I would not call it inexpensive although a very nice boat. For comparison, I then went to Tracker boats and saw the Super Guide V16T. This boat is of a similar type and size that I mentioned I took all over everywhere and managed some big fish back in the '80s-90s. $14,995 with a 25hp and a bow mounted trolling motor. $15k is not a small amount either but that is the price brand new. Easily towable. Made a few trips to Eagle Lake in the '80s walleye fishing and used camp boats. The camp boats were 16 footers with bench seats and 20hp motors. Those were typical at the Canadian lodges back then. Does one need to know how to navigate and use good sense? Well yes. But I would like to stress that one does not need a 621 to put a 40lber in the boat. | ||
| raftman |
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Posts: 619 Location: WI | SouthernMNMuskie - 7/23/2026 11:01 AM I'm saying, if you want to not waste your time you should probably get something that can handle larger waters (where the MN DNR primarily stocks muskies or are native). It's not that you need to have a guide level setup, but it should be safe enough to take out 90% of days on water that can produce a couple quality fish in a week. You have been trying to argue that affordability is the barrier for today’s young people yet your expectations reflect something that has never been affordable to young people starting out. What generation had 20 year olds buying 17 footers without mom and dad doing the buying or taking on bad debt? I would also add that your dismissive nature towards the opportunities that are available to folks with smaller rigs may be a better indicator of the challenges fishing in general faces with today’s youth. | ||
| SouthernMNMuskie |
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Posts: 20 | raftman - 7/24/2026 11:36 AM SouthernMNMuskie - 7/23/2026 11:01 AM I'm saying, if you want to not waste your time you should probably get something that can handle larger waters (where the MN DNR primarily stocks muskies or are native). It's not that you need to have a guide level setup, but it should be safe enough to take out 90% of days on water that can produce a couple quality fish in a week. You have been trying to argue that affordability is the barrier for today’s young people yet your expectations reflect something that has never been affordable to young people starting out. What generation had 20 year olds buying 17 footers without mom and dad doing the buying or taking on bad debt? I would also add that your dismissive nature towards the opportunities that are available to folks with smaller rigs may be a better indicator of the challenges fishing in general faces with today’s youth. "What generation had 20-year-olds buying 17 footers": I never made the case that any generation was. I was making the case that muskie fishing requires a large capital investment, which is now exasperated by the fact that our generation is plagued by inflation out pacing nominal wage growth. Again, it isn't that I'm making some claim that every 20-year-old should be able to buy a large boat. I'm making the claim that coupled with higher living expenses many younger fishermen are staying away from the sport in favor of lower barrier to entry options. As to my dismissive nature, I'll let you think what you want. I've fished in a small boat for most of my life until recently. Bought my 1976 lund at 16 for $3K using the money I saved from walking beans and detasseling corn for three summers. Believe me I know the options available with smaller rigs haha. I fished every muskie lake south of Mille Lacs with that thing. But when my dad finally broke down and bought a 18-footer, man did we catch more fish: - No more fishing with one hand because I had a transom mount trolling motor with a handle. - No more wasting two days of vacation because the wind started gusting and you got blown off the lake. -No more hand winching the boat onto the trailer on a windy day because your motor didn't have tilt or trim. But maybe I don't know the opportunities presented to me... | ||
| TCESOX |
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Posts: 1519 | And there we have it. You were talking about "entry costs', and using costs of non-entry, but avid. Entry costs are not too high, as you know through your experience. The costs escalate rapidly, once you become an avid angler. However, these are not "entry costs." That is the point we have been trying to make, while you have sounded like someone shouldn't even try to get into the sport if they can't afford a big boat and truck and drive long distances to prime muskie waters. The entry point, is an inexpensive boat that you can tow with the vehicles you have or can afford, along with used rods, reels, and lures, which are quite affordable, and you go to the nearest waters that hold muskies. We are all better fishers for having struggled with limited equipment in difficult conditions. We are better at handling boats, and we are better at using all of our equipment. It's really off putting when you use terms like "trash boat" and dismiss smaller fish and smaller waters, as unworthy. Nice big boats, top end gear, and elite waters, are not the norm for many muskie fishers. | ||
| TCESOX |
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Posts: 1519 | Ranger - 7/22/2026 6:47 PM In the voice of M. McConaughey..... "When? When? When. Time's a flat circle, man." $10 to the first person who names the reference. . I only know this through Nietzsche. I have no idea how it relates to Mathew McConaughey. | ||
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