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Location: Duluth | Literally some of the best days of my life were spent on Lake Vermilion in a beat to heck 16ft superhawk with a terribly running merc 50. Didn't stop us from putting fish in the boat, didn't have a pot to pee in. Fishing what structure you can, when you can is also a great teacher...found a lot of spots because the wind and waves kept us contained to certain areas. |
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Posts: 1517
| I guess if your baby food was served in a silver spoon, a $5000 tin boat is "trash." I know a number of kids who saved their night crawler and de-tasseling money and were proud as heck, of their "trash boat." And they were tickled to catch a 42" fish. If you think catching a 36 inch pike is the same as catching a 36 inch muskie, you just don't get it. You fish for muskies because they are hard to catch and you don't catch a lot of them. Muskie fishing isn't dying, it's growing. Young people are taking it up all the time. Money is not a barrier. It's the engagement on older communication platforms that are down. More spread out to various other places. What some people don't get, is that muskie fishing isn't how you start fishing, unless you are born into a muskie fishing family. You graduate to muskie fishing. You get tired of the ease of bass fishing. You get to the point that you can catch walleye on pretty much any body of water that has them, even when others are struggling. You need a new challenge. You either pick up muskie fishing or fly fishing, or both. You catch that first fish, and you knees wobble, and that's it. Your hooked. I wouldn't want muskie fishing to be any easier. What would be the point? Once you've caught enough 4 footers, you don't really care what size they are anymore. It's the chase. A 40" fish on a small low density lake is just as big of a deal as a 50' fish on Green Bay. Takes the same or more skill. It's just not for everyone. I've had friends who really like to fish, and I've taken them many times in my nice boat, with nice gear, and put them on fish. They still didn't get into it. They don't like how much work it is and how you don't catch a bunch of them in a day. And, as others have said, if you want information, use the search. Top notch sticks have answered pretty much every question you can think of, on this site.
Edited by TCESOX 7/16/2026 5:31 PM
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| Again, the minimum recommended gear to target this species is going to run $600. Saying money is not a barrier is ignoring the reality of current affairs for youth in America. |
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| Tyendinaga - 7/16/2026 7:20 PM
Again, the minimum recommended gear to target this species is going to run $600. Saying money is not a barrier is ignoring the reality of current affairs for youth in America.
Recommended by who? I would never recommend a beginner spend that kind of money just to get started. You wait until you are addicted before you do that.
Why is the reality of the current affairs for youth in America any different than in the past? Unemployment rate is lower than in the past. Interest rates aren't anywhere near as high as they have been in the past. I don't see any lines to gas at the gas station. Inflation isn't as bad as it has been in the past. Nobody is worried about being drafted into the military. Seems to me there are some pretty unrealistic expectations as to how good things should be, by the youth in America. |
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| What do the younger generation all do? They snap photo's on their phones and post the pictures. You don't find many pictures here because the holier than tho crowd rips the poster to shreds. That fish is smaller than you claim, you aren't handling it correctly, what release tools do you have, why are you holding the fish like that blah, blah, blah. Muskie fisherman are as welcoming as a NBA team at a klan rally. The last place I would post a photo is here, and I'm an old guy who doesn't care what anybody thinks. Go back 5-10 years and look for yourselves. |
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| TCESOX - 7/16/2026 7:46 PM
Tyendinaga - 7/16/2026 7:20 PM
Again, the minimum recommended gear to target this species is going to run $600. Saying money is not a barrier is ignoring the reality of current affairs for youth in America.
Recommended by who? I would never recommend a beginner spend that kind of money just to get started. You wait until you are addicted before you do that.
Why is the reality of the current affairs for youth in America any different than in the past? Unemployment rate is lower than in the past. Interest rates aren't anywhere near as high as they have been in the past. I don't see any lines to gas at the gas station. Inflation isn't as bad as it has been in the past. Nobody is worried about being drafted into the military. Seems to me there are some pretty unrealistic expectations as to how good things should be, by the youth in America.
I am getting weary of young adults talking about how easy the Boomers had it. Yeah, we went to high schools designed for half the number of students. The college I entered in 1969 had twice the students it had in 1964. And when you did get a degree, the employer got a hundred apps from other recent grads. Yes houses were cheaper but interest rates were double and in some cases triple what they are now. My first year in banking, 1981, fixed rate 30 year was 16.5%. So yes, houses were cheaper because virtually no one could afford a mortgage. |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | 1984, we signed on to a 13.5% 3-year adjustable 25 yr. mortgage. The kind loan officer explained that likely we would be paying $100,000 more in interest than what we borrowed. Dang if we didn't pull it off, tho! m |
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Posts: 617
Location: WI | Went on my old employers website to see what a starting wage for the role I had back in 2006 when I graduated from college. It was $21 when I started. It’s $40 now. There are great income opportunities for young adults today. Wages haven’t been flat. It feels ominous starting out to every generation. You are just being told how bad you have it more than previous generations. You’ll be fine. |
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| I am not bashing today's youth. I have met some amazing young people, and seen many features extolling the talents and drive of younger folks. If they are the ones that end up running things, we are in good hands. It's just that there also, is little perspective for many of them. When I graduated college, the unemployment rate was almost double what it is today. And yes, the house I bought almost 35 years ago, was a little less than $100,000. The job I had at that time paid a little less than $35,000. If I were to sell that house today, I would get about $300,000. That same job I had at that time, would have a starting pay of over $85,000 today. When my great uncle went to the same college I did, it cost about the same as a new Buick. 25 years later, when my mom went to that same college, it cost about the same as a new Buick. 25 years later when I went to that college, it cost about the same as a new Buick. And today, that school charges about the same as the cost of a new Buick. The more things change, the more they stay the same. |
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Location: Brighton CO. | First thing, Steve runs a tight ship! It's a great place to talk and have fun, but bad mouth other users or drag too much politics you'll be blackballed or disabled in a heartbeat. (that's a good thing) Question is why do we long in? For me the time on the water is short, so it's looking forward to the next trip or thinking fondly of the last. |
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| TCESOX - 7/17/2026 8:05 AM
I am not bashing today's youth. I have met some amazing young people, and seen many features extolling the talents and drive of younger folks. If they are the ones that end up running things, we are in good hands. It's just that there also, is little perspective for many of them. When I graduated college, the unemployment rate was almost double what it is today. And yes, the house I bought almost 35 years ago, was a little less than $100,000. The job I had at that time paid a little less than $35,000. If I were to sell that house today, I would get about $300,000. That same job I had at that time, would have a starting pay of over $85,000 today. When my great uncle went to the same college I did, it cost about the same as a new Buick. 25 years later, when my mom went to that same college, it cost about the same as a new Buick. 25 years later when I went to that college, it cost about the same as a new Buick. And today, that school charges about the same as the cost of a new Buick. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
TCESOX,
In the example you give you show the exact sentiment you are claiming is a farse. If you bought a house for under $100,000 back then, let's say $90,000 for example and you can sell it now for $300,000 then inflation over that period for a house is 300/90=3.33 but your starting salary only inflated 85/35=2.42 so there's a disparity in which housing prices have inflated as compared to wages. And you can read many articles stating the same thing about wages vs. cost of living. I think this hobby in general has progressed similarly. Just go and look at lure prices they've changed for the worse in the last ten years and well outpaced inflation during this time. Just because a New Buick and College Tuition cost the same about 60 years ago for one particular college does not mean that wage inflation has kept up with all the other millions of things you need to pay for as you grow up. Correlation is not causation. Housing, healthcare, and (in fact) college tuition are all vastly more expensive today and have outpaced wage inflation. And this isn't hearsay; there are multiple published studies around the subject readily available. When you say our generation has no perspective, I encourage you to put yourself in our shoes and you may find that you are in fact the one missing the perspective.
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Location: Springfield, IL | I appreciate that this forum exists and have to admit that there have been times when I stop by to search one specific lure or situation, and I don't always log in if I don't have my password handy. So some of the guests may be users who didn't log in, like me in those cases. I'll try to be better about logging in. I too have benefited from not only the forum posts here but direct DMs from other users on how to modify a bait, etc. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Some folks blame the internet. This IS the internet. |
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| Hey folks, a couple of observations. Thank you Steve for continuing to run this for all our enjoyment. At the end of the day I think this thread proves the point it’s all about personal choices. Ie; fishing out of a ranger boat loaded with latest electronics plus six Thorne bros custom rods vs used 16” aluminum with 25hp engine, or shore fishing! I’ve been blessed to be at this game a long time, my current and favorite rod/reel combo is: Shimano Curado 300 on and 8’6” Diawa ProRex rod, w 65# tuff line, with 124# solid steel leader i make myself. Under $400 if you shop wisely. Not intended to toss pounders & double tens all day, but solid for the other 80% of lures most folks use. So maybe instead of dismissing someone else’s perspective (too expensive, too cheap, under 40”, over 50”), soak it all in, and see how it might make you a happier, better fisherman! |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | You'd be amazed how many evenings myself and Steve W have talked into the night about why we don't see the posting we did, why the "community" we had kind of melted away.
Personal feeling: Facebook is more attractive than forums. Why go to one page for one type of info when there's a platform with the ability to see ANYTHING with a few clicks. Videos galore, arguments fed by algorithms allowing people to be that "internet persona" that may or may not match who they really are. Cool stuff flashed before your eyes, a topic is yelled about for a day, then on to the next outrage. I can't be totally wrong, just look at any public place: heads down, reading your phone.
MuskieFIRST was different (I like to think): fighting had to be "civilized", being a "richard" got you deleted or banned (probably still people who hate me and Worrall for this), and threads would last days (if not weeks, years - hey some still get a little love) with the same "core" groups that "seemed" to be open to learning and sharing info. BSTs (BS theories) were debated, I THINK few people took something from it.
We had online chats with guest speakers, Matchfishing, photo sections, etc. etc. Some of these stuff appealed to people, others (blogs) no one used. There really hadn't been a place to do that, heck the internet wasnt nearly where it is now. Other sites popped up, offered different "approaches", some of which we learned from, others we realized we never wanted to do.
Then Facebook gave all of this, in a way, across the world to everyone. So I think that is much more "attractive" versus a circa 2007 UI that we still have. Even at our MOST busy reading every thread was a couple hours' endeavour, and while there was always some political or sports bs in the basement, it was all muskies. FB gives the chance to do the same, but you'll never find the end.
AND, in the end....this place slowed down because of all of us. I'm sure most of the "long timers" can see when I or Worrall are starting a threat to just "get people talking". Forcing our voices (though we probably did and still do use this too often and for the wrong purpose) was never what this was about, it was about everyone having the ability to ask a question, start a topic. and others would dive in to help, disagree, whatever. But everyone stopped this, for the reasons above, and Steve and I never really dedicated time/effort/money to "beat social" with new features that would have matched FB/IG/Insta, etc.
We're still here (amazingly), a lot greyer and older, but if people wanted to start using this again, we'd love to see the community come back. But, you can't force it.
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| I've only been fishing a few years, but here are a couple of my thoughts:
1. The search function allows me to find many threads on the topic I want to talk about. Not using the search function is a great way to get roasted. Posting redundant threads is quickly called out.
2. I've quickly learned that talking about how to fish is a hell of a lot less effective than just getting out there and taking my lumps.
3. Facebook is an utter cesspool and I deleted my account a decade ago. This place would work for many of us, but the simple fact is that so much has already been discussed and I don't have a ton to add to the discusssion. |
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| I don't think many over 50 prefer Facebook over the forums such as here. If anybody wants to learn anything about Muskie fishing this is the place. However you may take your lumps from some here who think they invented Muskie fishing. The other thing that bothers me is the constant beating on people who post a photo who might not have the perfect hold on the fish. If I caught a 65" fish I wouldn't post a photo here......just saying.
It's a good resource for infomation and if a person lasts long enough to get a PM the info will flow. Stay humble and stay persistent. |
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Posts: 707
Location: Duluth | Just picked up a 97 Tuffy Esox ltd as a project boat, was inspired by Jr's 50K mark to see how cheap I could assemble a rig that allows me to chase big fish. With the states budget of 50k I could buy 9 more rigs after this one. Everything works as it should, a guy could go use it this afternoon if they wanted to.
Im going to paint, rewire and maybe put new carpet in it this winter because I always wondered what a Tuffy would look like in Off white AwlGrip with blue lettering |
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| I'm glad it's still here. It's the closest thing to "social media" I'll ever do. Would not have time to do anything else, and would not want to, from what I've heard. |
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Location: Bloomington, MN | I'm sorry I started this. MuskieFirst has been a fun part of my life. I've meet great people through this forum, and my MF jacket still fits me. Is there still a chance to get hats or bumper stickers? |
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| CincySkeez - 7/20/2026 7:04 PM
Just picked up a 97 Tuffy Esox ltd as a project boat, was inspired by Jr's 50K mark to see how cheap I could assemble a rig that allows me to chase big fish. With the states budget of 50k I could buy 9 more rigs after this one. Everything works as it should, a guy could go use it this afternoon if they wanted to.
Im going to paint, rewire and maybe put new carpet in it this winter because I always wondered what a Tuffy would look like in Off white AwlGrip with blue lettering
Still gotta have a truck to tow it, insurance to cover it, gas to drive it, and time to do it SR. Maybe one day the older generation will listen when they ask why something is dying instead of just talking over others saying they're inherently wrong. You ask why the forum is dying and the younger generation tells you the exact reason and then you say what we're saying isn't true, yet we are the ones experiencing it. Some people just can't be helped...sigh |
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| It's been really disappointing to see the responses to MNMuskie's perspectives as well as my own, to say the least. |
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| Tyendinaga - 7/21/2026 9:28 AM
It's been really disappointing to see the responses to MNMuskie's perspectives as well as my own, to say the least.
inter-generational peeing contests will always be a thing, unfortunately. They do it to us and we will more than likely do it to the generations that follow us. There are plenty of us that recognize the challenges presented to would be musky anglers' pocketbooks. I don't know how we deal with it, tbh. |
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Location: Duluth | SouthernMNMuskie - 7/21/2026 8:15 AM
CincySkeez - 7/20/2026 7:04 PM
Just picked up a 97 Tuffy Esox ltd as a project boat, was inspired by Jr's 50K mark to see how cheap I could assemble a rig that allows me to chase big fish. With the states budget of 50k I could buy 9 more rigs after this one. Everything works as it should, a guy could go use it this afternoon if they wanted to.
Im going to paint, rewire and maybe put new carpet in it this winter because I always wondered what a Tuffy would look like in Off white AwlGrip with blue lettering
Still gotta have a truck to tow it, insurance to cover it, gas to drive it, and time to do it SR. Maybe one day the older generation will listen when they ask why something is dying instead of just talking over others saying they're inherently wrong. You ask why the forum is dying and the younger generation tells you the exact reason and then you say what we're saying isn't true, yet we are the ones experiencing it. Some people just can't be helped...sigh
I hear you, I still feel like a young angler and I have been musky fishing for almost 20 years. It is a pursuit that has always required a great deal of sacrifice, this isn't the part where I tell you to save harder because I know it sucks out there. Making a living isn't as easy as it was when I was coming out of college in the tail of GFC. At least houses were cheap, for my generation.
But the musky fishing opportunities closest to you only exist because of the hard work of many young and old guys. Guys who would sometimes only get to fish musky once or twice a year if they took at trip to LOTW or somewhere in Wisconsin. Thats it, and they did it out of tin boats and shoe string budgets with old equipment. Most of them thought "how can we bring this closer to home and to more people. What can we do to help spread the gospel."
Now, I fear there's a lack of respect for fisheries and the pursuit. No social knowledge of how things were built or why, "it's just a crappy low density fishery." Is the flip side of the internet I guess.
P.S. owning a boat over 19 feet is more trouble than it's worth anyway. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It can be done by pretty much anyone out there who wants it badly enough. My son is self-employed building lures and guiding, and he has all the gear and a 19' Lund with a buck and a half. He runs a 2015 Dodge pickup. He catches a lot of fish of all species on his lures, and they are getting popular. He certainly isn't getting rich, but he's doing OK.
I made a living for 4o plus years selling boats as an independent rep. It was the only job I could think of at the time. Then one of the guys I sold a Tuffy to suggested I help him with Walleye Central to get muskie guys in there. Neither one of us got paid for a long time, so we decided to start OFM. That was about 23 years ago. Does it make a living for anyone? No, not even close, but that is my fault for not trying to sell what we offer. At 73, the selling fire is flickering out. I'll probably never really retire, but I'm not spending my days on the phone and road like I used to.
Yet here we are still. I make my living managing social media for a dozen outdoors industry clients. I work with some really great people in the business and consider myself really lucky. Interestingly, the skill set is the same as it took to get OFM popular... community management.
It's expensive keeping this place online, but so far it's paid for itself. |
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Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | SouthernMNMuskie - 7/16/2026 11:12 AM
I find it funny that everyone is attacking the money aspect on it when that is the exact reason my friends don't muskie fish. I have asked my friends. We do talk every once in a while (even face-to-face if you would believe it). Mille Lacs, Vermillion, LOTW, Leech, Cass, Minnetonka are all huge lakes that require a little more than a 16ft boat. Yes, you can fish the small lakes in Southern MN just fine with a 16ft boat pulled by a SUV (look at used car prices, still very expensive) but you're going to spend hours upon hours chasing mid 30s to low 40s fish. Mind as well just pike fish lakes instead with the same size structure and more action.
I see how you may think it costs less than that to get into the sport but in reality, it IS that much. You can't expect any sane person (even the type that wants to muskie fish) to drop 10k for a trash setup that lets you fish small southern MN lakes for low density fish.
I also find it funny the older generation always blames phones, attention spans, and lack of ambition for why hobbies are dying out. No, it's the fact that a double cowgirl is the same cost as two hours at most kids' minimum wage job haha. Not everyone lived in a time where college was cheap, you could buy a house for $100K, and your state pension and social security could allow you to safely float through retirement. Yes, the younger generations are far from perfect and have their problems but accessibility and barriers to entry are to blame along with the surly gatekeepers of information that refuse to help anyone out. I'm all for putting in the work and figuring it out yourself but just remember someone taught all of you to walk, talk, and read. But maybe I'm just wrong and "spoon fed" for realizing that I was fortunate enough to have someone help me get into the sport.
I went back and read this. Can't say you're wrong.
What I think is too bad is that there aren't older fishers out there wanting to take newer fishers out fishing. We ALL had that guy that had a boat before we could afford one. But honestly, wouldnt surprise me one bit with the rise of the elitist attitudes by many in muskies, that no one is helping anyone get on the water. |
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Location: Germantown, WI | Yeah I have been around here for just over 20 years and it was awesome, so much sharing of information, new posts, etc. I hardly come out here myself much, because when I look at what is new in terms of posts, things being discussed, sold, ect... not much has been added from the last time I visited the site a few weeks prior. And I used to visit at minimum once a day and sometimes twice.
I used to sell and buy a lot of lures here, but i stopped listing about 2 years ago. Seems like little interest from anyone (and I have nice stuff), so i just moved to Facebook ( ugh! hate doing it). But I did meet 5-8 good dudes from those transactions that I still text with a few times a year.
with that said, funny enough, I have a few lures I was looking to move- as I was packing for one of my two Canadian trips this past weekend.
Think I will list them out there for kicks and giggles. I would rather sell to people on this forum, but I'm not going to hold my breathe. but maybe I will be surprised...
Good discussion and makes me realize I need to pop back in a bit more often.
It's unfortunate...
Edited by dward 7/22/2026 4:00 PM
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| That's kind of what soured me on the whole muskie scene. The elitist attitude... You fish trophy waters, you put in 200 days a year. You catch a lot of fish because you basically live on the water. That makes you lucky, it does NOT make you an expert. You're using this and that gear because they guys who make and sell that gear basically handed it to you so you could promote it for them. You're not making a fortune at it, nobody is. You've either got someone else's money to spend or you're poor. Boat and truck parked in the driveway of a house that's worth less that the boat and truck...
That's not to dismiss the level of experience and insight those folks can provide. Not at all. I've fished with a bunch of them, and learned a lot of what I know from my time on the water with them. But from where I sit it's only about 2/10 that actually care about teaching you how to catch more and bigger fish. I've found that the ones with the biggest musky egos to be largely useless at that. You don't need this or that to catch muskies, or catch big muskies. You need solid gear that works, you need a variety of lures to cover different depths and conditions. You need to fish where the fish are. And if you're going to listen to what anybody else says, you need to pay attention to who it is you're listening to. These forums are great for that. The discussions are priceless, especially when folks disagree. |
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Location: Germantown, WI | Just saw I had registered on 9/12/2002... coming up on 24 years... Actually on that day this year I will celebrate Muskie 1st as i will be arriving on Eagle Lake that morning!
But serious question, I've been around since 2002... when did the site begin out of curiosity.
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| dward - 7/22/2026 3:47 PM
Yeah I have been around here for just over 20 years and it was awesome, so much sharing of information, new posts, etc. I hardly come out here myself much, because when I look at what is new in terms of posts, things being discussed, sold, ect... not much has been added from the last time I visited the site a few weeks prior. And I used to visit at minimum once a day and sometimes twice.
I used to sell and buy a lot of lures here, but i stopped listing about 2 years ago. Seems like little interest from anyone (and I have nice stuff), so i just moved to Facebook ( ugh! hate doing it). But I did meet 5-8 good dudes from those transactions that I still text with a few times a year.
with that said, funny enough, I have a few lures I was looking to move- as I was packing for one of my two Canadian trips this past weekend.
Think I will list them out there for kicks and giggles. I would rather sell to people on this forum, but I'm not going to hold my breathe. but maybe I will be surprised...
Good discussion and makes me realize I need to pop back in a bit more often.
It's unfortunate...
You did indeed sell some good stuff, even told a couple of younger anglers to check for your posts. I didn't buy, 'cuz last thing I need is more lures. |
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