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Location: MN | You cannot be charged for being a bad fisherman and it is impossible to prove the fisherman's intent. You could go toss musky baits right now (pike and musky both closed) and as long as you tell the warden you are fishing for panfish you are legal. If anyone disagrees with that I would be interested to read the court case in which someone was charged doing so. I have asked multiple CO's this question because I have seen it happen so often and I always get the same response.
Personally I see no harm in casting baits with no hooks but as you can there are those here who think it's wrong. I think they are just worried you are going to smarten up "their" fish or have an advantage come opener.
I would never target an out of season species with hooks, even if you can get away with it, and I am sure you as well as most folks here have the same ethics. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Nershi - 3/16/2015 5:17 PM
You cannot be charged for being a bad fisherman and it is impossible to prove the fisherman's intent. You could go toss musky baits right now (pike and musky both closed) and as long as you tell the warden you are fishing for panfish you are legal. If anyone disagrees with that I would be interested to read the court case in which someone was charged doing so. I have asked multiple CO's this question because I have seen it happen so often and I always get the same response.
Personally I see no harm in casting baits with no hooks but as you can there are those here who think it's wrong. I think they are just worried you are going to smarten up "their" fish or have an advantage come opener.
I would never target an out of season species with hooks, even if you can get away with it, and I am sure you as well as most folks here have the same ethics.
Please, please, please, oh pretty please, go try this. |
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Location: MN | Why try it? I've seen others do right it in front of CO's and not get ticketed.
If you think it's illegal please find me a court case where someone said they were targeting an open species but got ticketed and charged because the CO and judge assumed their intent was to target a closed species due to the tackle used. It happens every year so there should be plenty of court cases right?
Or maybe you can show me in the regs where it says what type and size of baits can be used to target what species.
The question was about legality not ethics. Legal, yes if you don't admit what you are truly targeting. Ethically, obviously not.
Edited by Nershi 3/16/2015 6:31 PM
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Location: Minnesota | Last year I was up on mile lace lake memorial weekend. My mother was dragging a lazy Ike I was using a mepps magnum musky killer . Cought one 42 inch musky .half hour later dnr stop me checked license and asked me how I was doing. told him I caught one muskie and that was it. he then asked what I was fishing for and I told him Pike.he told me have a nice day and he moved on to the next guy |
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Location: The desert | If the original poster goes out prior to May 9th and throws musky baits and claims he is fishing panfish prior to the May 9th opener, I can 200% guarantee he would be ticketed,except on LOTW/rainy.
Obviously, once game fish are open there is nothing stopping this. But I don't believe that is when the original poster is talking about. |
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Posts: 3149
| So I have a question??? Along these same lines how would you ever prove someone is intentionally snagging fish??'? If some one is throwing a big bulldawg or suick or Jake in shallow water to the same spot over and over obviously seeing something and ripping it back,,,are they working the lure or are they obviously snagging???even if they snag the fish snap a quick picture of their illegal trophy and put it back like th law says to do with a snagged fish. Because some of you are saying that the CO judgement doesn't matter if he witnesses it..
Edited by happy hooker 3/16/2015 7:08 PM
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Location: Minneconia | The fact that this is even being debated is discouraging. Tolle I would try to follow the spirit of the law vs trying to find a loophole around the letter of the law. The season is in place for a purpose whether spawning success is minimal or not. |
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Location: Eastern Ontario | I'm confused how can you be fishing if your not using FISH HOOKS |
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Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | horsehunter - 3/16/2015 7:33 PM
I'm confused how can you be fishing if your not using FISH HOOKS
You are still fishing....... Hooks or not.... I know guys that pre fish Tourneys without hooks, and they still boated fish,.. It was Rubber and the fish wouldn't let go.
Just leave the resource alone until the Legal Day. That way the Muskies won't be bothered.
Common Sense...... |
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Posts: 8788
| If you're casting a lure, how can you call that anything BUT fishing?
I'm sure there are guys out there "pike fishing" before the opener, and the CO's probably don't want the hassle of dealing with them.
But there are others who know what's going on, and will watch you until you do that first figure 8, and then you're done.
Between the muskie T-shirt, the MI sticker on your boat, the musky this-and-that on your truck, and a boat full of musky gear? Good luck!
If you can look across the lake and identify who is out there musky fishing, what makes you think the wardens don't know better?
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| i do not target game out of legal seasonal regulations. But... What do the guys who commented on this post per spawning reasons feel about IA and IL lakes being open to Muskie fishing very shortly? Or any game fish season open during spawning? I'll be fishing the rainy very shortly; for spawning walleyes during legal season.
Edited by bllhogg 3/16/2015 11:30 PM
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Posts: 3
| Nersh. You are correct that there is no statute that defines what a muskie lure versus a crappie lure is. That being said Peace and Conservation officers are allowed to use discretion during their encounters with us. They could write us a ticket for throwing a cowgirl, or a 7 inch jerk bait, even if we said we where fishing for panfish.
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Location: oswego, il | Muskies in illinois spawn but not successfully. This is a silly debate, one of the silliest ever on this site.
Answer to the question, find a second interest, it's not that hard to find something to occupy your time.
Now what we should be debating:
If you put an anal vent on your lure do fish find it more real or you the anal vent?
Edited by ToddM 3/17/2015 7:05 AM
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Location: MN | Sure they can write you a ticket but it isn't going to hold up in court. There is just no way to prove intent unless you admit to it.
Pointerpride like I said I have seen it happen right in front of a co when only panfish and rough fish were open. One time a guy was throwing a large daredevil and the other time someone was throwing a 6 inch stick bait. No tickets were issued.
Happy hooker I don't find your example of snagging fish relevant because snagging fish is an illegal method of fishing. Targeting panfish and rough fish with bulldogs, suicks or hookless baits for that matter is not illegal tackle or method.
Edited by Nershi 3/17/2015 7:17 AM
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Posts: 255
| Stupid debate. Shouldn't do it. Sure there are loopholes you can get through, but intent is the whole issue. The guy wants to see fish, cast for fish, and would love it if a fish hit. I think that is what the legal fishing season is for. Wait for an opener somewhere.
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| Nersh
I"ll admit I'm no legal expert it sounds like what your saying is it all boils down to confession and physical evidence?? A sworn officers account doesn't matter?? also then how do cops write tickets for U-turns,loitering,jaywalking when there's no physical evidence to bring to court or a confession.
In any case I want the CO"s to write a citation for somebody obviously targeting muskies. Even if it doesn't stick the offender will have to take the time and hassle and possibly time off from work to show up in court which may discourage them from doing it again. |
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Posts: 5191
| This fish was caught on a phantom by Irish Esox .So why can't you fish for trophy panifish using big lures?I can't download the biggest crappie I have ever seen .0723
Edited by 0723 3/17/2015 9:16 AM
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Location: MN | happy hooker - 3/17/2015 8:34 AM
Nersh
I"ll admit I'm no legal expert it sounds like what your saying is it all boils down to confession and physical evidence?? A sworn officers account doesn't matter?? also then how do cops write tickets for U-turns,loitering,jaywalking when there's no physical evidence to bring to court or a confession.
In any case I want the CO"s to write a citation for somebody obviously targeting muskies. Even if it doesn't stick the offender will have to take the time and hassle and possibly time off from work to show up in court which may discourage them from doing it again.
The difference is all of the things you listed are illegal. It is not illegal to target certain fish with certain tackle. There is just no way to prove intent unless it is admitted. Again you can't be ticketed for being a poor fisherman.
I don't want people targeting out of season fish any more than the next guy but I do not want authorities issuing tickets that aren't going to stick in court. Waste of taxpayers money.
Agreed stupid arguement. I just thought I'd share my opinion since I've talked with several co's on the subject since I see it happening so often on certain bodies of water.
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Posts: 1000
| I'm amazed this engaged so many people. I think my questions have been answered fully. Thanks for the help.
Q1. Can I cast musky lures out of season fi they have no hooks because I want to?
A. Do it on a pike lake after May 9th and you're good
Q2. Is casting hookless muskie lures on muskie lakes prior to the season legal?
A. No answer straight from the book (yet). You can risk the mood of the CO and spend fishing time figuring it out in court.
Just to be clear about my second question, I'm not looking to mess with spawning fish. I care about this resource as much as you do. Being relatively new to this sport, I was just wondering if there was some way I could legally locate the fish earlier so I didn't have to start from scratch in June. Throwing lures with hooks and saying I'm chasing pike is not ethical or responsible. Throwing six inch lures and saying I'm chasing panfish is just stupid. Throwing hookless lures seems like a gray area with a lot of risk. |
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Location: MN | Throwing hookless lures seems like a gray area with a lot of risk.
If you throw a hookless toy boat you should be okay. |
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| Tolle, the fish you locate in preseason are not going to be in the same place come June. |
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Location: oswego, il | Toy boat toy boat toy boyoat toy boy, I can't type it either. |
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| Hey MR. Ramsey,
If you're going to make fun of my partner with one of the many photos I know you have......first, you have to learn how to get the photo to show up in the post. Oh yea, I forgot what day it is, (Saint Patty's Day) probably no way your fingers are going to hit the right key. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA GO GREEN ALL DAY LONG (the other days, Green and Gold! |
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Location: Sawyer County, WI | Junkman - 3/17/2015 2:22 PM
Hey MR. Ramsey,
If you're going to make fun of my partner with one of the many photos I know you have......first, you have to learn how to get the photo to show up in the post. Oh yea, I forgot what day it is, (Saint Patty's Day) probably no way your fingers are going to hit the right key. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA GO GREEN ALL DAY LONG (the other days, Green and Gold!
He's a white sox fan Marty, you have to make some allowances for that |
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Posts: 3149
| Muskies Are Attracted to toy boats,,in fact it's a great pattern,,,a kid used to rent remote control sailboats on lake Harriet in MInneapolis lhe had about 4-5 going in the same waters all day long on the weekends and there were always muskies in that area fired up. Then the wonderful city kicked that poor kid out for not having a vending permit and no more hot spot. |
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Posts: 5191
| Marty I will send it to you .Maybe you can post it.That was one of the greatest catches I have ever seen....0723 |
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Posts: 5191
| dfkiii - 3/17/2015 3:57 PM
Junkman - 3/17/2015 2:22 PM
Hey MR. Ramsey,
If you're going to make fun of my partner with one of the many photos I know you have......first, you have to learn how to get the photo to show up in the post. Oh yea, I forgot what day it is, (Saint Patty's Day) probably no way your fingers are going to hit the right key. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA GO GREEN ALL DAY LONG (the other days, Green and Gold!
He's a white sox fan Marty, you have to make some allowances for that
Kind of an uneventful St.Pats sewer backed up waiting for the water jetter.Happy St.Pats everybody. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Geez. |
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