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Posts: 553
Location: 15 miles east of Lake Kinkaid | I agree with many of the responses given. I also believe you create your own luck in musky fishing and life. This past week I fished Tuesday afternoon through Friday with two fish to show for it. In half a day of fishing on Tuesday and a full day Wednesday I caught nothing. I got a 36"er in my first five casts on Thursday. Lucky....yes. Skill....I like to think so. Right place at the right time....definitely. More hours fishing high petcentage areas with proven tactics means more "luck". And most days 1 "luck" fish makes 12 hours of casting worth it.
Edited by MuskyMATT7 2/25/2012 9:08 PM
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Posts: 286
Location: VA | If you believe in luck then why does so many big fish have familiar faces holding them. And what Jon said is so true. "The only place success comes before work is in the dictionary." |
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Location: 31 | JKahler - 2/24/2012 5:48 PM In the end, they're just fish and it means almost nothing in the bigger picture. This is so true, great statement!!! I would add that unless you are out there for yourself (matters not why), you are off center somewhat if your only goal is to show how good you are to others because at the end of the day... nobody else really cares about how many or how big except you anyway.
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Posts: 458
| I am lucky that I have good friends and family that I share a boat with whenever I can. |
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Posts: 8780
| One factor nobody mentioned is time on the water. You don't have to be lucky or skilled to be successful if you're out there 3-5 days a week and you're in tune with what's going on out there. You know where the fish are, you know what patterns are working. You might have stumbled on both completely by accident. You might have had 10 fishless days flinging every bait in your box at everything you can find. You might just know the spots on your lake that are productive right now, and have found a presentation that trips their trigger. Trial and error is not skill. It's the people that learn from that process, who can take what they have learned, and apply it, under different circumstances, on different lakes, at different times of the year. There are plenty of people who have their home water(s) dialed in. But take them to a different body of water, at a different time of the year, under completely different conditions, and you might get a different result. To me, "skill" is being able to go anywhere, at any time of the year, under any conditions, for any species of fish, and find them and catch them with some consistency. And that's something that few people can do. |
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Posts: 833
| I think Pressure is also a big factor. If the fish see baits all day everyday like they do here in the Metro, they will be much more challenging to fool. Also there is a lot of skill in converting/triggering fish. Sure if you get your lure in front of one when it is on a binge, then you'll probably get bit. However, how often does that happen? Skill is when you can trick or coax that fish into striking. That to me is one of the differences between a guy who averages 3 weeks between fish and a guy who averages 6-8 hours or less between them.
Some of the best advice I got last year was to learn how to trigger on 3 or 4 baits, ie becoming a master with them. This is one of my goals for 2012.
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Location: Money, PA | k2muskie - 2/24/2012 12:07 PM
Interesting and I hope my comments are in line with this thread.
Out here in the west we get lambasted by the bucket list anglers looking for a notch on the rod-butt. They'll send me PMs on the fishing forums I frequent asking where did I fish what lure did I use. When I simply relpy any lure will catch a fish plus the lures we use 95% aren't sold in Utah. Including I kindly tell them put time on the water and learn. I don't and won't give them the play-by-play nitty gritty details.
Now what I will do is give them info on proper tackle, having release tools, and proper handling and links to information. If they are serious and want to improve their skills they'll read and go from there. If they continually contact me I go from there.
However most of the time here's what goes down.. I see a thread and I get lambasted in the open forum as we should share all we've learned on our own with them. They just want to take their trout light tackle fishing gear with 6# test line maybe heavier and catch a Tiger Musky.
For us we have a passion for what we do, have taught ourselves along with expending numerous hours on the water many never seeing a fish and always employing our 3Ps (passion, persistence, and patience).
So I've come to realize I just try and let it go with them but it does irk me that some folks want everything handed to them disregarding trying to learn on their own. So for our skills we continually learn and improve skills and our own techniques as each outing is new and we learn something else...skills are alls improved as I see it.
Dude! I'm with you 100%....this is the day and age of instant gratification!! And the INTERNET created that attitude without a doubt. I, like you, got lambasted on another website because I hammered a guy about wanting spoonfed....He used a quite creative approach...The 'Ol "If you had to choose your favorite lakes in Ohio, what would they be" The thread grew to ellaborate details of individual lakes....It grew into just what that guy was skeeming for. Unreal!
With ALL that said, however, I'd be the first to take a newbie out on the lake that takes the initiative to ask in person and want to go out and work and see how its done. The consistancy of success in fishing is most definitle NOT luck, but its getting closer and closer to just that with this age of instant gratification and information at our fingertips....along with the help of some people who feel the need to post EVERYTHING and EVERY little detail on specifics of whatever. Is it fair to the guys who work their ARSES off to find success? Probably just another matter of opinion and ultimately beyond our control, I know....But I refuse to just let it roll without voicing my opinion about and accept the fact that I may sometimes pee some people off....
As for people calling consistancy luck....ummm, thats just jealousy shining through IMHO.
Time and Confidence are Key!
Edited by ShutUpNFish 2/27/2012 12:51 PM
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Skill in reading the water and finding the fish (knowing where they should be and why), then controlling the boat so a presentation can be placed where they are....learned skills all the way and not a thing to do with luck. Which fish there you catch? That's luck unless you can see the fish or know a particular fish is there...and all has more to do with hard work than good information about the water body no matter where it comes from. Whether one stumbles on to a pattern and learns how to exploit it or figures it out and attacks more directly, it's learning that sharpens skill sets.
I get a kick out of folks new to muskie angling in the last 15 years complaining about the open exchange of information and blaming the internet in the process. Seriously? Where did you get your information when you started out, and if the entire process is so horrible, what are you doing reading this?
I got mine from other anglers, and learned a ton from my elders and my peers. Still am.
Fish where there are good numbers of big fish do the above well, and you will catch big fish in good numbers. No one truly gives much of a darn what you catch any way, and if they actually do, and you don't know them...you are probably past the point of worrying about your angling skill sets anyway. |
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Posts: 8780
| sworrall - 2/27/2012 12:53 PM
[...]
I get a kick out of folks new to muskie angling in the last 15 years complaining about the open exchange of information and blaming the internet in the process. Seriously? Where did you get your information when you started out, and if the entire process is so horrible, what are you doing reading this?
I got mine from other anglers, and learned a ton from my elders and my peers. Still am.
Fish where there are good numbers of big fish do the above well, and you will catch big fish in good numbers.
Interesting question, and one that I never really thought much about. Where did I get my information from? Well, prior to muskie fishing and the internet, it was Saturday morning fishing shows on Channel 38. Babe Winlkelman and Bob Iszumi. In the decades before that? I just went fishing, my myself. The only information I had was what I could figure out on my own. "Why was that fish there? Is there ALWAYS a fish there? There's always fish over THERE. What makes that spot a place that fish like? Why do I catch fish when the weather turns cloudy or before it rains? Who don't I catch fish the day AFTER it rains? Fish must hate the sun, because they always come out when the sun goes down. Why do I always catch fish before and after a storm, and not during the storm?"
I'm not sure I understood much of it as a kid, I just put the pieces together based on when/how/where I caught fish and when I didn't.
That's not to say the internet is not a valuable tool, it certainly IS. But if you're armed with nothing other than that, what do you do when everything that is supposed to work does not? Some people just go home and blame the fish. Other people have the desire to figure out what went wrong. Those people aquire skill. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Addict, exactly.
Magazines, TV, the bait shop, and other anglers and peers were the network. Oddly enough, they still are in some measure, it's just that the information is available faster and to and from more peers. Ain't no one so special out there I need their 'secrets', and neither do you, but I can always use good information. How skillful I am in learning and applying that information is the key.
I freely admit to being lucky. I'd much rather be lucky than good. 
Some of us offer our advice about becoming a better angler to other muskie fishermen in 'seminars'. I'm fortunate enough to be talking to the Milwaukee Muskies Inc group tomorrow night. I won't give much advice on how to catch a muskie or where to catch a muskie, because no one would care enough about what I think about that to apply it anyway....muskie fishermen are like that.
Instead, I'll talk about what the underwater world is like and what muskies actually can and can't do...and about learning. And I'll enjoy it immensely. |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | Time applying yourself on the water is the game changer, it opens you up to more experiences and you'll hopefully begin connecting the dots. The internet is a valuable resource, no doubt. The little tid-bits you can pick up on forums like these get used or built into your vocabulary sometimes without you ever realizing that's where it came from and product reviews can be your best friend if or when you decide it's time to upgrade your equipment for whatever reason you come up with.
Myself, I enjoy being on the water any time I can be there with the exception of windy days and dead trolling motor batteries... Since musky are no doubt one of the most difficult freshwater fish to target with high-number results, someone who primarily targets musky would seemingly be doing themselves an injustice by not improving their edge and know-how of the when's, where's, why's and how's of musky fishing. This is especially true with the limited time many of us have with other priorities like day jobs, homes and families, not to mention other hobbies. Increase your skill-set, increase your odds... Increase your odds, increase the mood you leave the boat launch in. You know how us musky people are, sometimes we go home happy we saw a couple fish.
Perhaps those folks in the unknowing, take the likes of someone who doesn't fish for example, simply don't understand that "fishing" isn't always what they might envision. I can't speak for others, but my opinion is that the types who aren't fisherman/women themselves or aren't closely connected to the sport through someone else (husbands, siblings, close friends, what have you..) view "Fishing" to be the art of sitting on a dock or boat hunched over with a pole and a bobber bouncing on the chop 10 feet from the boat - you know, the cartoon vision of fishing. We as fisherman/women understand the complexity of the sport, and most of us to the extent of many more species than musky. We're generally a proud community who for the most part are out to catch a fish AND enjoy being outside doing something other than yardwork or something. When someone invests themselves and more into a hobby, like fishing, it can be hard to overhear a comment about that hobby not taking skill or talent. In times like those we sometimes want to say, "Excuse me, what you said there is wrong on so many levels...", but I think letting it roll is the best way because you can't put into a few words all the things those of us who really care about what we do on the water would have to say to change their mind, anyways.
Edited by Sam Ubl 2/27/2012 3:32 PM
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Posts: 1036
| Couple of random thoughts.
In my opinion, Sworrall is right about skill concerning "reading" water and spots. And also boat control. I've fished with a lot of good guys on many lakes and what separates a good angler from an average angler is boat control and intimate knowledge of structure. Luck has nothing to do with knowing your lake and your structure. And once you have that knowlege, or skill, your confidence will increase along with your catches.
Luck? Well that is what happens when preparation and skill meets an unfortunate situation. Sometimes you win, sometimes you loss.
As far as hearing comments? Well Sam, just let them go. Some people aren't smart enough to know what they don't know.... |
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Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | I have always thought that a person can make their luck, or chances, better in any type of chance game. Fishing does involve a great deal of luck, but one can increase your chances by making good choices and one can greatly decrease your chances by making bad choices. Lure selection and presentation, boat control, fish location, and amount of time on the water play huge roles in catching Muskies. Decide wisely and your chances increase. Decide poorly and your chances decrease. Anyone that says otherwise has either not fished much or has not been overly successful yet.
Catching big fish, like getting multiple Yahtzees in a single game, takes some luck. But one can increase your odds by making good choices.
Just my thoughts. |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | On any given day of fishing LUCK can outfish a season pro !!!!!! |
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Posts: 1036
| Any given day, yes. Any given season, no. |
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Posts: 829
Location: Maple Grove, MN | One would think that over a period of time that a seasoned fisherman would outfish a ten-year old kid with a Zebco casting a 4 inch Rapala from shore. The seasoned fisherman with a fully rigged boat and many rods and lures should be able to increase his chances much higher than the ten-year old's chances.
But don't we still hate it when the kid fishing from shore outfishes us on a given day? It is kind of humbling, isn't it? |
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Posts: 1220
| Fishing in a charity pro-am many years ago, I was able to draw a full day with my boy's fishing idol. Mike Iconelli. Fairly early in the day, I had more fish in the boat than Iconelli and my kid says, "Hey dad, you are outfishing Mike Iconelli!" The top Elite Series pro graciously said, "Yea, he sure is." I responded to my young son, "By the time this day's over, Mike is going to have twice as many bass as I will, and I am going to have twice as many as you--that's just the way it is!".......and that's just the way it was!!! All it takes for skill to outperform luck is a matter of time! |
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Location: Ogden, Ut | sworrall - 2/27/2012 12:59 PM
I freely admit to being lucky. I'd much rather be lucky than good.
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Instead, I'll talk about what the underwater world is like and what muskies actually can and can't do...and about learning. And I'll enjoy it immensely.
You best start taking this stuff seriously and get over this whole 'enjoying it' thing or you'll never amount to much in this arena buster... 
S. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Sorno, that is the absolute fact of the matter. Too late for me, but you may still have a fighting chance... |
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Posts: 253
Location: On the water | We could all use a little luck sometimes. |
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