|
|
Location: Contrarian Island | when fish follow a sucker my belief is they aren't eating it because they see a hook or hooks...my take is they simply aren't active..
just like when they follow our baits... put that same sucker out there with no hooks, that fish will still follow it around...
personally I'm not confident in small hooks on a 18 inch sucker... if it works for you great, but I'm using 5/0s and the muskies don't seem to care .. my goal is a 50 incher eating that sucker ...  |
|
| |
|
Location: Eagle Lake Vermilion Bay, Ontario | o-o-kay...??probably 35-50% or even more at times of the fish are caught after following those artificial baits you talk about. i certainly wouldnt throw out a livebait without hooks to see..ha ha. it bothers me none to follow rt behind 1 or 2 boats IF they dont have livebaits,i used to do it purposely,go to n twin on tournament days when all guides shunned it and have my best days fishing behind them. good fishermen catch some but bring way more most times out to the edge. i've boated numerous 40# fish that after days end review someone else had her follow off the same structure anywhere from 5 min. to an hr before i pulled up.
lots of things will work..even most of the time..but there's always a better mousetrap and rigs should/will continue to evolve , a 2/0-3/0 extra strength hardened gamakatsu (eagle claw is in works on a specific purpose Trokar that will be awesome) simply will do everything a 5/0-7/0 bronzed will only better in every aspect,on baits of any and all sizes and fish of all sizes. penetration ability especially through boney roof plates, less bait fatigue, even actual strength,and if you dont think or at least take into account visablity especially in clearer water on bright days and high pressure fronts,not even counting fish that seen alot of artificials all season...well... those looking for answers can take a couple diff views , digest them,give em a try and make up thier own minds whaat works for them. |
|
| |
|
Location: Contrarian Island | exactly, if you are happy with your results keep doing it...I'm happy with mine!
I guess just chalking up a fish hitting a day or 2 later after someone had it following their sucker to me just doesn't mean it ate yours because of the smaller hooks, I'd bet it was simply active.., no different than you going thru a spot and getting a fish to follow and 2 hrs later another boat goes thru and catches it... . having sucker fished for 20 yrs I've seen how 1 hour they can be following suckers to turning on and eating them an hour or 2 later...seems when they are following suckers all over the lake for other boats that is just the weather or whatever that has them neutral.... I just don't give a muskies pea size brain that much credit..
so to take it a step further and pose this question...so a musky follows a mag dawg worked slow in the fall... if you are saying there is no advantage to a bigger hook.. do you put 2/0s on your mag dawgs too?
I do agree a lighter overall rig is beneficial and that is why i keep my rigs as light as possible... but 2, 5/0 774s on an 16 inch sucker isn't much bling imo.... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 754
| How ever you chose to do it my thoughts are to just make sure you are using decent gear. This cheap POS rig, or more accurately, what was left of it after a break off, was in the mouth of the fish I am holding. The fluro is maybe 100 LBS and the hooks were tiny (1/0 ??) When I netted the fish I could not figure out why there was such a mess until I noticed the jewelry hanging off the mouth and face of the ski... It would be a shame to loose a fish like this (or any for that matter) due to ignorance or someone being cheap....
Attachments
----------------
 sr.jpg (73KB - 502 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Location: Contrarian Island | good point ....I would never use fluoro on the hook section...that is only asking for big trouble! minimum 135 lb 7 strand but all my rigs now are 175 lb 49 strand... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 999
| To add to Brad's last comment DO NOT EVER go less then 180 pound flouro on your leader section (if you use flouro) and do not use anything less then 100 pound braid. Both will snap in a heartbeat on a solid hookset into a big fish. Brad makes some pretty solid rigs that have put a lot of fish in our net the past decade. |
|
| |
|
Location: Eagle Lake Vermilion Bay, Ontario | that anology is ridiculous livebait and artificials are totally diff you cant compare . i know those rigs,heavy wire,etc and size hooks work, i designed the first brake away rig over 20 yrs ago when everyone was still using single hooks and insisted on still using it because single hook takes were 50%++ more than the big nose hook quckset with 6/0 hooks(see infisherman 1995) and whether you use clips,small hooks,whatever, the concept is the same as long as it cleanly breaks ,i used 5/0 and 6/0 hooks for 15 yrs., they work. when fish are hot, darker windy weather or darker water it may never make alot of diff. but... there is no doubt under less than ideal conditions. anyone who knows what they are doing who has adapted what i talked about will unequivocally tell you that thier catch rates went up and i've seen it countless times side by side.
|
|
| |
|
Location: Contrarian Island | sure maybe at times your smaller hooks in the ultra clear water will get a hit versus one w a bigger hook...I don't fish gin clear water so my 2/0 on small suckers up to 5/0s on the bigguns, work fine for me... You can have your beliefs but dont try to belittle others that dont agree with you and whos results are pretty impressive as yours... do what works and you have confidence in. I also would not personally use 60 lb wire on the hook section, I have had fish shred 90 lb... just too light for my taste. |
|
| |
|
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | I have to agree with Herbie on this. On gin clear water I've noticed a huge difference in fish actually eating instead of just playing with a sucker that has hooks that are bigger than 2/0. Oddly I haven't noticed any difference in flouro vs wire leader which leads me to believe it's more about how the bait swims than about what's hanging from it. |
|
| |
|
Location: Contrarian Island | that I can agree with... ie, I don't think the musky 'knows' or cares if the hook is a 2/0 or 4/0...but like you say, keeping the overall rig as light as possible is my goal as well as a lighter rig will allow the sucker to swim easier... put 5/0s on a 12 inch sucker and what does it do.. tips sideways.... use the hooks appropriate for the size of the sucker to get the best action ... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 108
| I think muskies are dumb. They don't know what a hook is or a quick strike rig! I have seen muskies (large) caught on a sucker twice within 6 hours on two different occasions. When they are hungry they have short term memory. I have also caught a 52" muskie on a sucker that was reeled in while fighting another fish and the rig was literally 6" down under the surface and 1-foot away next to my 225hp Suzuki...it didn't seem to care.
I do see the point of "finesse" though...you see it fishing for all species of fish. Sometimes a lighter rig may allow your sucker to move quicker and more natural and that sucker may provide more "trigger" during a period where muskies are inactive.
I agree with the "fish the way you are confident in" statement, but make sure your rigs are heavy enough so you are not breaking off and hurting fish. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | I'm my experience, the most natural presentation of live bait, wins. I realize that most guys despise circle hooks, but in my world, when combined with fluro leaders, they can't be beat. |
|
| |
|
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Gander Mt Guide - 10/5/2016 10:16 AM I'm my experience, the most natural presentation of live bait, wins. I realize that most guys despise circle hooks, but in my world, when combined with fluro leaders, they can't be beat. How big are the suckers you're running? My experience with the suckers I run is that circle hooks just don't work but they really do get eaten twice as much. I've tried a few methods to make it work but simply can't get an acceptable hookup percentage.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 246
Location: Grand Marais, MN | Anyone out there tried Larry Dahlberg's technique "magic musky hook"? Looks intriguing, something I'd hope to try one of these years. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 2515
Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Will Schultz - 10/5/2016 12:05 PM
Gander Mt Guide - 10/5/2016 10:16 AM I'm my experience, the most natural presentation of live bait, wins. I realize that most guys despise circle hooks, but in my world, when combined with fluro leaders, they can't be beat. How big are the suckers you're running? My experience with the suckers I run is that circle hooks just don't work but they really do get eaten twice as much. I've tried a few methods to make it work but simply can't get an acceptable hookup percentage.
12-13" max. The keys to being successful? Patience and boat control. |
|
| |
|
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | Gander Mt Guide - 10/6/2016 9:53 AM Will Schultz - 10/5/2016 12:05 PM Gander Mt Guide - 10/5/2016 10:16 AM I'm my experience, the most natural presentation of live bait, wins. I realize that most guys despise circle hooks, but in my world, when combined with fluro leaders, they can't be beat. How big are the suckers you're running? My experience with the suckers I run is that circle hooks just don't work but they really do get eaten twice as much. I've tried a few methods to make it work but simply can't get an acceptable hookup percentage.
12-13" max. The keys to being successful? Patience and boat control. I've had good success with 10-12 but the 14-18's just don't work. My guess is the head of the sucker is too large and doesn't allow the circle hook to do it's job.
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 20248
Location: oswego, il | Alot of the advice is from the perspective of where you fish. My sucker fishing experience comes from indiana and southeast wisconsin. Pressured finicky biters, clearish water and small to average sized suckers. A different scenario than someone fishing lakes with alot of big fish. Advice is relative to the person giving it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 221
| bigfoot - 10/5/2016 3:21 PM
Anyone out there tried Larry Dahlberg's technique "magic musky hook"? Looks intriguing, something I'd hope to try one of these years.
It works, but you might sit there for 30 minutes waiting for the fish to eat and in doing so, miss out on another fish. I definitely wouldn't suggest it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 7088
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | What happens when you rig poorly?
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/videos/10.10.2015/8213/Water.Wolf.U... |
|
| |
