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| Message Subject: "search" baits | |||
djwilliams |
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Posts: 767 Location: Ames, Iowa | Here is my boat control first way of putting this. If I am drifting/blowing into a what I think is a likely fish holding area, I am prerigged with at least 2 fast baits and one twitch bait. I'm trying to get in as many casts as possible before I have to start the motor/ trolling motor and possibly "spook" the area for a second pass. Two weeks ago I was quickly drifting just off a long bullrush bed between two close islands. The urge to cast to more spots faster makes me put down my favorite bait, a twitched 7 inch slammer, in favor of a bucktail or bulldawg. I guess what I am trying to say is that as my window of quality time on a quality looking spot is limited because of wind, I am going for quantity of casts in the hope of finding an active fish versus more time consuming "higher quality/higher confidence" casts. Do I get in 30 casts to blanket the area, or 6 high confidence very methodical casts. Hope this makes sense, cause this is usually in the forefront of my thinking out on the water. Don | ||
| Ranger |
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Posts: 3864 | Hmmm... many thanks for Jlo's comments. in response to the last question, which is a synopsis of many of the issues; use your motor to hold you in place and throw the right bait at that time. Don't allow the wind to control your selection. I use a 55# electric transome on my light 14' boat, and I use that beeatch such that sometimes I have waves sloshing over the transome. I always fish the wind-blown-structue. I stay in place as I hit the spots. Spooky waves, sometimes, but I know how to ride the ups and downs and the sidewayses. Ride it out and you'll move LOTS more fish. Still, I don't just blast casts to cover the water. Sometimes I'm rockin/rollin' while I slowly move a suick just on top of the weeds. | ||
| dogboy |
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Posts: 723 | right on ranger, boat control is a huge key to working areas thoroughly, wind shouldnt dictate what bait to throw. well, not all the time anyway. But now this is getting way off the topic and prolly going to start a whole new thread. | ||
| jlong |
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Posts: 1937 Location: Black Creek, WI | Steve... I've have great hook-up percentages with the Wabull as well.... but I fish the bait with pauses. 90% of the strikes I get are during the pause. Front hook... corner of the mouth... almost every time. Nice! What I am trying to understand here is when/why people fish gliders at mach 10.... as a "search bait". I see many lure manufacturers do this at pool demos too. They just keep hip hopping the lure... never letting it come to a stop... and have the bait flying all over the place. My experience when fishing in this manner is that the fish will chase but never commit to a strike.... or if they do strike... they flat out miss... or you barely get a piece of them with the rear hook. Not a situation I prefer... so I don't do it. But... obviously many people are utilizing that tactic with success.... so I'm trying to learn whether its something I shouldn't be ignoring. As for boat position and all that jazz.... its ALWAYS important and not just pertinant to "fishing Glide Baits as a Search Bait"... which is what I thought this post was about. | ||
| Troyz. |
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Posts: 734 Location: Watertown, MN | I love using glide baits for search bait, especially under tough conditions, I prefer the extreme phantom(something about rubber tails), something that I can hop along fast then pause and pick up the pace again, this has been an excellent bait. You can move it fast and have partner work a more traditional search bait such as a bucktail, topwater, or spinnerbait(like a long tail). To me the key is being able to have it stop and hang and being able to track when you start moving again some glider just won't track. If a fish comes up, I like being able to make the bait work in place, then move forward like it is escaping the fish. I think the erractic action of glide baits trigger fish on someday more that the tradition search baits, especially under blue bird days. Also love the dawgs straight retrieved with twitches, to locate fish, then going back on them once located, they always seem to move fish. Troyz | ||
| Reef Hawg |
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Posts: 3518 Location: north central wisconsin | Like Troy saird, the glider at a notch up in speed, can be a great trigger with those pauses tossed in. I used to throw big Reef Hawgs through alot of the summer to a fault. Though they come out at spot duty now for the most part in place of other higher % speed confidence lures, there are still days that quick hopping that Reef Hawg, or a Nitro can really move fish where the other search stuff does not. While I cannot move the Nitro or Reef Hawg as quickly as I can a Tapdancer, Topraider, or GP Thumper Spinnerbait, they do move fish that I can quite often come back to later on and catch. I too wonder about the pool demo guys that never pause. Do they really work the lure like that in the lake, or is that just to get alot of casts in at the pool? I too can't remember the last hit I had on a glider that came just hopping it along without some sort of pause, even if a short one. Learning to be able to shorten up my pauses(placing them at the best times of the retreive), and learning to be able to keep the lure moving during the pause, has really helped me get more casts in when using a glider for searching. Keeping the lure moving on the pause is easier with a cigar type glider than a flat sided, as the reefer or jerko type lures will keep sliding through the water on the right type of pause, keeping the lure moving along and allowing more casts to be taken while giving the fish the illusion of a stopped or paused piece of meat. Did anyone mention jigs as an alternative search lure? The jig and rubber plastic team has become a great combo over the past few years for many, when used in the same situation as a bucktail or tailbait. I have only had limited success doing it, and only in the fall. anyone here do it often and care to share any secrets about its practice? I know burned Dawgs and Joes can be a good searcher too.... Anyone? | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32880 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I have at least a dozen reasonably recent fish from 46" to 50" on gliders moving them with no pause at all until I get right next to the boat. A spinnerbait incorporates no pauses. A bucktail incorporates no pauses. A topwater....you get the idea. The 'trick' in eliciting strikes instead of follows is to run the lure in a very tight pattern, not allowing wide swings side to side, and alternating up/down. I use a Wabull over heavy cover walking it across the top surface/subsurface, when it gets to the edge, pop it down and back up, then go back to side/side three, up/down two, and at the boat, pop down and just watch her until she runs out of line, then pop it up up...look... and cast again. My only complaint is losing fish on head shakes when the lure is pinned up rear hook only; there's alot of weight in that glider body swinging back and forth violently, and I've lost a few that way. Jigs? Sure. I use them all year and have since the late 60's. | ||
| bn |
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| I agree with SWorrall on this one..I have caught fish and moved alot of fish, granted not very often, on days when they wouldnt show or eat anything else on a very fast moved Hellhound...no pauses.....and I mean fast... JS, yes Joes and Dawgs can be great search baits too...Joes can be worked very fast and kept high over structure... | |||
| Reef Hawg |
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Posts: 3518 Location: north central wisconsin | Looking at some photos since my last post to refresh memory, alot of Muskies do come when the bait is working quite quickly, but they are still gliders, and there is some sort of inherant pause when using them, no matter what or we'd be reeling them straight in. I think the length of pause or time between taps is really the hangup for alot of folks, and really, one needs to be albe to incorporate several types and lengths..right? My pauses might be what you guys consider moving the lure along without any pause at all I guess. The next guy might consider a pause, allowing the lure to come to a stop(which I do in cold water or on certain followers, but rarely on a normal retreice). I prefer the cigar type glider(hawgs, jerkos etc) because I can get the same type of glide that a flat sided job can get, but still get the up down pop as well. My pauses, though very very short(bait still moving, but just a bit 'off' cadence) are still ultra important most of the time, so important that I wouldn't even think of running it without one mixed in. I'll still bring the lure to the boat as quickly as my partner moving a spinner, but will change up the style of the cadence, which is where the slight pause comes in. Good point about keeping the thing in a tight pattern. I notice that when the fish want em' fast, that the 6" Hawg often shines over the 8", as does the Jerko, as these lures have less swing and work a bit more tightly related to the centerline of the retreive. So, you guys get alot of hits on your gliders in mid pull? I know I get a few, but still, most do hit when I am picking up the slack to make the next tap.. Also, I 'fluff' the spinnerbait or bucktail on each and every retrieve. This is something I learned from one of the best some years ago(Charlie Schauer). this is a pause of sorts, or at least creates the illusion of one, as does the rod pump while trolling. The 'fluff' is another thing that can;t even be seen by my partners when I'm doing it, but is definately noticable by the fish, judging by response timing. Do you burn your jigs Steve? I know you have been using jigs since Moses wore short pants(no dig on your age of course...lol) with great success, but I don't think alot has been said about using them in the exact manner a bucktail or spinnerbait is used, with no jigging at all, save for a slight dip or mini pause in the middle or end of the retreive(Doug Stange style...). bn, still trying to klearn all of the ins and outs of the big swimmers like dawgs and joeys. So far, just been sticking to my confidence mags, jerked fairly deep. I have just ordered a couple shaller dawgs for this fall on the river. You hear of people burning the shaller ones in situations where one would bulge a 'tail in shallow weeds or in the 'no mans land' areas in between structural elements? Edited by Reef Hawg 8/31/2006 10:33 AM | ||
| dogboy |
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Posts: 723 | Hey reef hawg, I have followed stange's J-mac thing for a while, pretty much use the J-mac exclusively till I master it, but, I have luck not "buring it in" but a steady retrieve, fast enough to keep it from sinking, but slow enough to keep it down into tops of weeds and structure, I incorporate the pause, or kill the bait for a second, and commence reeling using a little pumping of the wrists while reeling, I have found this works better than the jigging\hopping action, but, I get more fish to bite the tails off these baits than I can shake a stick at. it never fails to have one follow behind, you do a quick pause, and continue reeling, and they overtake it, but usually swim off with 4inches of tail in their mouth, have been working on a way to rig a weedless stinger for that. If I have a tough day, I will usually be rooting a fish out of thick cover with this bait. | ||
| Ranger |
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Posts: 3864 | Ok, getting back to a focus on the glider, and I recognize I'm chatting here with folks who know lots more than me, I almost always use pauses with a glider. I'm a big believer in letting a follow run into the bait. This includes bucktails, Steve, particularly Hirsches Ghosttailes that will dive with blad slowly turning with slack. Now I have to let the posts above sink in, most of these guys catch lots more fish than me and listening to them is how I get better. I will offer another observation...once I fished with a guy who had just read an article about speed-retrieving jig-creatures back to the boat. He threw a jighead thru a rubber fish body, a flaptail, about 6" long. After 5 hours he had one follow that I saw. (He didn't figure-8 and was color blind and didn't wear polor shades so he couldn't see sheeet.) He was helping me in a match so I was pretty serious about watching both his and my baits for follows. The mid-30's fish was screaming along just behind his bait and he was into his next cast as I pointed out he pulled the bait away from a fish. By the time we were done I concluded he wasted a lot of time and water doing his thing. I boated a nice fish in hour #2 of my 18 hours that day and moved into the final against....Lambeau. | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32880 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I timed my retrieve against a spinnerbait today, TommyV ripping a Violent strike as fast as he can against my Wabull. I was nearly dead even, cast for cast. Slamr got a 43 and Tommy lost a mid thirties on the spinnerbaits, I moved two on the Wabull. | ||
| Grunt Lures |
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Posts: 786 Location: Minnesota | Burn the bucktail or spinnerbait! JMO James | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32880 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | The question was what to do when burning a bucktail or spinnerbait was not working. | ||
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