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Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | I did a search but didn't come up with anything this specific. Just wondering what leaders you guys tend to use when throwing big rubber / plastic baits like Mag Tullibees, Mag Dawgs, Super D's, etc, etc. Do you want a single-strand wire leader that you would typically use for a glidebait? Or would a standard fluorocarbon leader work? I didn't use a whole lot of big rubber baits last year but I really want to broaden my bait horizons this year and learn more tools of the trade.  |
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Posts: 717
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | I used to use Flourocarbon. It was nice, because it never kinked if the front hook got wrapped around the wire. The problem with rubber swimbaits like Dawgs, fish eat it at the head 95% of the time. That puts the leader in the fish's mouth, and flourocarbon doesn't hold up well. I use 124 lb single strand. Here's a pic of a flouro leader after it went into a 45"er mouth.
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Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | ugh. Thanks for the photo! I appreciate the information... |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | In 6 years of using fluro leaders for 90% of my lures I've never had a problem with them.
When they start to get nicked /frayed I will change them out.
I've had 2 wire leaders (well used) break on snags/rocks, but they were also well used......Truth be told.... change them when they are kinked,nicked,or frayed......Use common sense.
Jerome |
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Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | Let me ask this and be even more specific... is there any particular leader I should use for these types of baits to obtain the best action from them? I'm aware that I'm using a pull/pause technique but I'm wondering if any one leader works better than another.
I've no inclination of tying a frayed, used or well worn leader onto my line so I don't forsee that as being part of the equation.
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Posts: 3240
Location: Racine, Wi | I think you'll find most of the guys throwing rubber baits are using floro. I use 130# minimum for throwing rubber and at times will up to 150# test. Like Jim said, many of the fish eat the head of the baits, but the heavier floro seems to hold up well. Like Jerome said, make sure you're checking and changing the leader if there's any nicks in it. |
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Posts: 717
Location: Grand Rapids, MI | I don't know, maybe I'm just always a bit too much on the cautious side. If someone tells me this has failed, or that has failed, I listen before it's too late. I don't WANT to find out for myself. A friend of mine had an 80lb get bit through like it wasn't even there. Literally just sliced right through it. So he stepped it up to 130. Brand new leader, and 1 fish on a Dawg. The leader went into the fish's mouth, and he was lucky enough to net the fish with only a thread of flouro connected. He doesn't even use flouro except for bucktails or trolling now. |
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Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | That's insane... it's tough to imagine something like 130# flouro being sliced like warm butter on a hot day. On the other hand, with the fish typically eating the bait head first - I can see how/why the flouro would be punished by all those teeth even more. |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | I used to use 174# single strand wire leaders that I made myself and caught fish using that. Last couple years I have been making my own 150# fluoro leaders made from Seaguar leader material and have not had any issues. I replace them at the first sign of a nick or abrasion. Have never had anything that made it look like they could fail.
I guess you can't discount the picture from JimtenHaaf, but that really surprises me. Was that leader in the picture the 130# one that you talked about in your last post?
Every once in a while you heard of sombody having a problem with a 130# leader, but several guides will say over thousands of fish they haven't had an issue. I'm not sure what that means. Sometimes it's enough to make a guy 2nd guess fluoro, but like I said, I have seen no signs of problems yet.
Anyway, regarding action of rubber baits I don't think it matters much. You can get most rubber baits to walk the dog a little, but I don't really think it's pronounced enough for the leader to make much difference. At least not to the same degree that you'd see with a wide swinging glider.
Tucker |
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Posts: 2037
Location: lansing, il | 130# or 150# fluoro is plenty good enough for throwing the plastics you mentioned, dont be afraid to use it. For Mega Ds, Big Curly Sues, Pounders etc. alot of guys are going to the 180# and even 200# test. From looking at that picture it would seem there is either a material issue or something else goin on there. A single fish doesnt make the material fray like that. |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | I agree with John. I now have over 1500 fish on Flouro leaders and not a single bite off, over EVEN CLOSE TO A BITE OFF or break. All flouro is not made the same, and if you use light stuff (under 130) you will have issues. I now use 150 lb for rubber baits and like I said, I have yet to ever have an issue with flouro leaders. So to answer your questions...what should you use for rubber baits....simple answer 150 lb Stealth Tackle Flouro Leader |
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Posts: 906
Location: Canada | I tie my own 200lb Seaguar fluorocarbon leaders and not had a problem and this is what I use on my bulldawg rod and my bucktail rod. |
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Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | Thanks a lot for all the replies, you guys... I'm going to order a couple of packs of heavier flouro leaders today on my lunch break at work.
I really appreciate all the input! |
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Posts: 944
| I would use straight wire leaders from Stealth or his weighted leaders. I have seen fish cut off #130 floro on Big Joes and BullDawgs and lots of other floro leaders shreaded in the net. Will not let clients use floro on Rubber or jerkbaits. I know Scott Kieper and Bill Beuchner do this also. Bill told me Sat. at the muskie school during our pool class he had 2 fish chew off floro leaders last year so he quit using them for rubber. Lots of the big fish we get have the Big Joes or bulldawgs and up to 2 inches of leader in their mouth. The Muskys love to hit these baits in the head. Anything you can cut with a knife a musky can cut with their teeth. IMO
Jeff Hanson
madisonmuskyguide.com |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | 200lb flouro is real intense... Even 150lb is some thick stuff, but really you have nothing to lose going that heavy, only gain. I "got away" with using 80lb for the longest time and it held up for three years without a hitch; I even recall catching over 20 fish on a single leader before replacing it because it was holding up so well. When you actually compare 130lb to 80lb, while their is an obvious thickness difference, it's not significant enough to feed stubborness so i switched to 130lb for throwing rubber and it makes two differences: 1) Your sense of security intensifies and worry is left in your wake, 2) You won't have to say, "I got away with three years of using 'something lighter'"
I hear what you're saying, Jeff... |
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Posts: 15
| What about titanium? Here in Europe many guys use that stuff for jerkbaits and big rubber. I personally like the 100 lbs Titanium Single Strand. A single leader will hold up really long and you don't have to worry about dawgballs or gliders that swing into the leader. The only problem with titanium is that you don't see any problems and so it might (actually it never happened to me) break when you don't expect it. |
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Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | I've heard a lot of quality fluctuations are inevitable with titanium... for some reason, it seems to be a hit or miss. I'm not certain why that is but evidently, flourocarbon seems to be the way to go.
I believe what you referenced as far as not really "seeing" the imperfections up close and personal may be the biggest fault. I think for me, personally, I'm going to opt to go with the 130# flouro leaders from Stealth. |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Don't guys use floro leaders for deep sea Shark fishing?
I think I'll use 150 lb. floro since it's worked just fine for the last 6 years....and I throw big rubber a lot.
Jerome |
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Posts: 185
Location: On the water | 220# hi seas fluoro with solid ring works great for me |
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Location: Contrarian Island | been using 180 lb fluoro long before you could buy them and most were using them .... no bite offs, work great for all baits, all sizes |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | Brad, you tie your own? I'd have no problem going thicker if I could tie them as nicely as I'd like. I can tie an 80lb without an issue, 130lb is a little tougher but I got it down by now.. I'm exaggerating, but I would thinking 180 would be like trying to tie solid wire. |
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Nelson ties a mean leader. Sick sucker rig too.
For some reason he likes me so I get to play with them.
JS |
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Posts: 315
| Im with these guys! The heavier the better! I actually use 250# flouro leaders and they rock. I do not even want the thought of a break off going through my mind. There are def times when you want to go lighter but for blades and rubber you can not go wrong with heavy! |
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Location: Contrarian Island | did I say I like you JS???? I just like the salsa! lol
I don't tie 180...use double barrel sleeves and a good crimper...done right they are rock solid and as good as any knot....imo no need to do a knot then crimp...you get a nice clean leader with just a crimp...some say doing both isn't overkill...well the weakest link is the weakest link..unless you are using 180 lb braid your line's gonna break well before a crimped leader ...
http://www.leadertec.com/tipsandtechniques/crimp_techniques.html |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | I've heard about guys having a hard making good knots in 130 pound fluoro. I have been making my leaders from 150# Seaguar and use the (I think) Centuri knot. I feel like the knots are fairly easy to tie and seem to snug up and hold well. I also crimp them for added security. If you are having a hard time knotting 130 or 150 pound fluoro you might want to give the centuri a try.
http://leetauchen.com/lees_leader_knot.pdf
Note, this knot will slip a little if not crimped when you put strong, even tension on it. In the link Lee tightens it all the way up. I leave it with a loop and crimp it so I can replace the snaps if I want to.
Tucker |
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Posts: 2427
Location: Ft. Wayne Indiana | Stealth Tackle has tieing flouro down to a science. His knots are super clean, super strong, then the also puts a crimp on the tag end and uses glue as well on the knots. I have never had a leader by Stealth Tackle fail, so to me that means alot. His products are the highest quality and you won't regret getting them and using them. Just be sure to get the 150 to 180 pound leaders from him. You will be highly impressed. |
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Posts: 1030
Location: APPLETON, WI | Went with the 2-pack of 130# from Stealth. |
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Posts: 906
Location: Canada | Sam Ubl - 3/26/2011 4:47 PM
.. I'm exaggerating, but I would thinking 180 would be like trying to tie solid wire. I use the perfection loop pulled tight over a smooth peg bolted into my work bench then a small dab of glue is added as cinched tight and let dry a few seconds before the knot is complete. |
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Location: Contrarian Island | 180 is pretty hard to cut w a sharp filet knife...guess imo if a guy is worried about them eating a dawg and cutting the leader why not other baits? |
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Posts: 4053
Location: Land of the Musky | 130# Stealth. Used one on my XH rod/Shimano setup for 3 yrs and it boated over 50 fish for me. I retired the leader and a SuperD after I got my largest pike. The leader hardly looks used. All I can say about the above picture is that the flouro used may not have been of high quality. JMO |
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