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Posts: 641
Location: Bloomington, MN | I understand times have changed, but the drop from 10+ years ago on viewers and posts doesn't make sense to me. I understand about the sharing of hot bites. This site did probably put 10+ boats extra on Vineland Bay or on Vermilion, but those days are pretty much over. We had league fishing teams many moons ago. Lots O Fun! Now it is crickets minus a couple of us old guys yapping about the past. Subscribe, and add content.
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Posts: 9
| I am a newbie here. I was thrilled to find a place to ask and learn about Muskie and Eagle lake. We don't have Muskie here in Kansas so I tried to gather as many tips as I could and also just enjoy talking Muskie fishing. I met several super nice guys that would DM me tips etc and it helped alot as we had an awesome trip. So I appreciate this site a ton.......but that pop up ad's are atrocious. I'm on a lot of fishing websites and this is by far the worst as far as those pop ups go but once you get past them I've met some nice helpful folks that I sure appreciate. |
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Posts: 1704
Location: Brighton CO. | As we speak there are 5 signed in and 190 guests. if you are a guest we're not adding content. From time to time I'll post something to get people talking and there are very few takers. I get it I'm a old guy and the worlds changing. |
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Posts: 705
Location: Duluth | Muskie world is pretty polarized at this point. A lot of guys I know and respect would rather just keep quiet and not generate any attention. |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Why take time to learn from other, more experienced fishers when you can spend a grand on some fancy electronics and , well...m |
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Posts: 11
| Lots of groups on Facebook I’m guessing. Easier to access and make posts. |
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| CincySkeez - 7/14/2026 11:33 AM
Muskie world is pretty polarized at this point. A lot of guys I know and respect would rather just keep quiet and not generate any attention.
I don't think I realized how polarized until I joined musky league last summer. At the organizational meeting, the issue of FFS was brought up for a vote. The discussion was very heated, despite most present having been in the league for some time and the folks knowing each other. The final vote was not to allow and some were still angry at the end of the season. My partner and I just kept our mouths shut but we both were struck by how heated it got. |
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Posts: 1513
| Yes, there is real polarization. I've seen some real awkward silence between people that used to yuk it up.
Also, things change. There was a time that there were 3 tv channels, and the entire nation watched only those 3. If you put something on all 3 channels, everyone saw it. Give a Hoot, don't Pollute! Now, unlimited viewing options. Same goes with everything else. Fracture into little smaller groups.
I still don't understand how anyone has an issue with pop up ads, or other targeted ads. I never get any. On any sites. If you get them, that's on you for allowing them. Take control of your browsing. |
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Posts: 8868
| The hard truth is that you have to be a little off to want to fish for these things. When you put a bunch of people together who all have a screw or two loose things are bound to get ugly sometimes, especially when you add beer. |
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Posts: 31
| Very few Millenials and fewer Gen Z have the money, OR the time to dedicate to a difficult passion to pursue. This is an incredibly niche hobby that demands a lot of resources.
Combine a massive regression in social/economic quality of life with the long decline of message boards, it's not surprising to see activity drop to single digits.
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Posts: 13
| Tyendinaga - 7/15/2026 8:31 AM
Very few Millenials and fewer Gen Z have the money, OR the time to dedicate to a difficult passion to pursue. This is an incredibly niche hobby that demands a lot of resources.
Combine a massive regression in social/economic quality of life with the long decline of message boards, it's not surprising to see activity drop to single digits.
Well put. I work in finance and would say I have a 90th percentile job for being 23 and living in MN. I live very conservatively and have no debt post-college. Despite this, there is absolutely no way I could muskie fish without my dad being into it. At the minimum, you probably need 50k cash to get on the water with a half decent boat and truck. That's a pretty insane barrier to entry for a niche hobby that no-one my age does. Yes, you can obviously shore fish or find cheaper ways to put yourself in the position to catch a fish but if you want a serious chance I think 50k is the minimum starting from ground zero to putting yourself in a position to have a 10-20 muskie year. |
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Posts: 85
| Most small forums are dying, it seems.
muskyfirst is a good example. A long time ago, when you googled something about muskies, you'd land here, probably get a good answer, and maybe become active. After that but before LLMs, SEO crap started to dominate, so you'd likely not land here. Maybe you end up at Wired2Fish instead. Now you can rely on google search and probably get unhelpful SEO crap or ask an LLM and probably get a decent answer. TLDR: People who used to land here don't anymore.
Plus it's musky fishing so if you accidentally give anything important away, you'll certainly catch fewer fish in the future. |
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| esoxaddict - 7/14/2026 6:27 PM
The hard truth is that you have to be a little off to want to fish for these things. When you put a bunch of people together who all have a screw or two loose things are bound to get ugly sometimes, especially when you add beer.
LOL, lot of truth in this. My son is a good fisherman and actually did well on musky the few times he went out. But, his message to me after college was, "yeah, I like to fish but I like to catch them, that is why I am not a big fan of musky fishing". |
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Posts: 705
Location: Duluth | esoxaddict - 7/14/2026 6:27 PM
The hard truth is that you have to be a little off to want to fish for these things. When you put a bunch of people together who all have a screw or two loose things are bound to get ugly sometimes, especially when you add beer.
This was also the best part. Even if you were a rich kid back then you had to be a crazy one that was willing to grind, and a lot of dudes took/take pride in that.
The 50k number posted above is laughable but also shows you where things have gone. |
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Posts: 456
Location: SW Ohio | I don't think it has to do with the costs or effort required to chase these fish. Maybe, but it doesn't cost much to log into a site and post. I also don't think its the ads...I can't speak for everyone or anyone other than myself but I see no adds on my iphone or my laptop. Yeah, there are a ton of other sites but very few dedicated to muskies. FB is loaded with pages but those are a fecal matter show most of the time.
I do think that this site's traffic dropped off after the "ffs wars" or discussions that happened a while back. Members attacking members solely based on their perspective of ffs (no pun intended). Some of the things that were posted were astonishing. I know I backed off a great deal from coming on here for a while. I now check the site every morning and see the same thing...one or two "registered" users and a whole bunch of guests (bots?). I post occasionally but I'm "way down south" from most of the members...my weather, lake conditions, etc. are far from what most of you see up north (well, maybe not now that the water temps are up all over). Heat will let up next week but I doubt the water will cool off as quickly.
Just my two cents on the OP's question. |
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Posts: 1513
| SouthernMNMuskie - 7/15/2026 9:10 AM
Well put. I work in finance and would say I have a 90th percentile job for being 23 and living in MN. I live very conservatively and have no debt post-college. Despite this, there is absolutely no way I could muskie fish without my dad being into it. At the minimum, you probably need 50k cash to get on the water with a half decent boat and truck. That's a pretty insane barrier to entry for a niche hobby that no-one my age does. Yes, you can obviously shore fish or find cheaper ways to put yourself in the position to catch a fish but if you want a serious chance I think 50k is the minimum starting from ground zero to putting yourself in a position to have a 10-20 muskie year.
This is so wrong, I almost don't know where to begin. You do not need anywhere near 50k to start muskie fishing. You can get a 16 ft. tin tub with a 20 horse motor, for 5 or 6 grand. Won't be pretty, but will float just fine, in those little lakes in your neck of the woods. few hundred more gets you an electric trolling motor, batteries, and a fish finder. That rig is light enough to pull with a car, so no need for a truck. You can splurge a few hundred on a nice rod and reel, net, release tools, and some new baits, and you are set. You could even trim it down more with used rod, reel, and baits. With that set up, you can easily catch 10 to 20 muskies in southern Minnesota and northern Iowa. Many more if you have time to fish a ton.
Edited by TCESOX 7/15/2026 6:26 PM
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Posts: 2098
| A lot of factors, 15+ (especially 20+) years ago most would share every detail, current patterns, hot baits because there really wasn’t that many guys chasing them. I can remember 2005 telling a member I had never met(in person)to go fish the saddle as you enter Monument bay, raised a couple giants on topraiders… told them 10 other spots to hit, it just felt like spots were endless and pressure minimal on lotw back then… times change! Also..Those of us that still check in have beat almost every topic to death over the years, my favorite part of this site anymore is using the search function, if you’re new to musky fishing go read some threads from 2004-2009…great discussions ya there were lots of debates, heck I often stirred the pot just to see reactions ... but there was also some really good information shared. Very few want to share info anymore, or they want paid to do so! |
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Posts: 31
| TCESOX - 7/15/2026 7:24 PM
SouthernMNMuskie - 7/15/2026 9:10 AM
Well put. I work in finance and would say I have a 90th percentile job for being 23 and living in MN. I live very conservatively and have no debt post-college. Despite this, there is absolutely no way I could muskie fish without my dad being into it. At the minimum, you probably need 50k cash to get on the water with a half decent boat and truck. That's a pretty insane barrier to entry for a niche hobby that no-one my age does. Yes, you can obviously shore fish or find cheaper ways to put yourself in the position to catch a fish but if you want a serious chance I think 50k is the minimum starting from ground zero to putting yourself in a position to have a 10-20 muskie year.
This is so wrong, I almost don't know where to begin. You do not need anywhere near 50k to start muskie fishing. You can get a 16 ft. tin tub with a 20 horse motor, for 5 or 6 grand. Won't be pretty, but will float just fine, in those little lakes in your neck of the woods. few hundred more gets you an electric trolling motor, batteries, and a fish finder. That rig is light enough to pull with a car, so no need for a truck. You can splurge a few hundred on a nice rod and reel, net, release tools, and some new baits, and you are set. You could even trim it down more with used rod, reel, and baits. With that set up, you can easily catch 10 to 20 muskies in southern Minnesota and northern Iowa. Many more if you have time to fish a ton.
It's that dropping $5,000-$6000 right now, to the Millenial/Gen Z audience, for a hobby like this, let alone having enough in savings to justify, is a frankly irresponsible decision, or an unfathomable one. That is where the perspective shift is. |
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Posts: 32973
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Clark,
There's still traffic on OFM et al. worth hanging on to; otherwise, we would have shut things down long ago. Plus, as mentioned, there are a couple of decades of very valuable discussion we don't want to lose.
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Posts: 641
Location: S.W. WI | last 30 years kids have been more and more consumed by a screen, not doing things. Parents use as babysitter. IMO, it has gotten to the point of they have almost zero interest in anything that takes effort having been raised on instant gratification and 30 second clips. People live with their nose in a phone. I see it all day every day. everywhere. Ridiculous. Pathetic.
I call BS on the financial part being a big deterrent. It has always been a little pricey for muskie fishing, They have zero interest.
Not everyone...... just most......
Edited by Rudedog 7/16/2026 6:15 AM
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Posts: 616
Location: WI | I think the image of fishing is just more expensive. Boats are bigger. Screens are bigger. Motors are bigger and everything is shiny. Reality is young adults don’t usually have much money and while you can fish with less than what some guy on YouTube does, the perception of a large mountain of cash/debt in front of them probably turns them off. |
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Posts: 456
Location: SW Ohio | I’ve seen a small uptick in the numbers of younger fisherman on our local lake, even during the week. Usually, it’s 2-3 per boat. May or may not have electronics above a trolling motor. Not sure what they’re fishing for as I see all sorts of baits being cast. But our Muskies eat just about anything from walleye jigs to big rubber so who knows. Boats are nothing fancy…small alum bass or v-hulls but they’re on the water. The weekends are so crowded that it by itself could be a turn off. Who wants to sit for an hour waiting to launch then wait another hour just to tie up to get the boat out? And get pounded all day but all the other boats. It’s lessened since the end of the pandemic but is still really bad. Glad I can choose to fish weekdays now.
There’s not much in the way of musky clubs around here. Since most of the musky lakes are north and east of here, all the clubs are located that way. The MI club here folded years ago from what I understand, well before I started chasing them. Unless a kid has someone willing to take them out, not much opportunity for them to fish. Bass clubs and tournaments are still predominate with weeknight and weekends occasional weekend tournaments. They seem to get a lot more attention. |
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Location: PA Angler | IMO Muskie fishing is becoming more popular especially since our state finally started to stock and get into them more .Changing size and creel.
Seems like forums are dying and becoming more of the past. I was on a bunch and only a handful left. Most went to politics then shut down. Seems like everyone just attacking someone, I know some forums were worse. A lot just want to be spoon fed. Seems like they started to be more trolls than people wanting to talk and help out.
Have to agree about the adds here tho. Every time I click on something I get an ad.
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Posts: 13
| I find it funny that everyone is attacking the money aspect on it when that is the exact reason my friends don't muskie fish. I have asked my friends. We do talk every once in a while (even face-to-face if you would believe it). Mille Lacs, Vermillion, LOTW, Leech, Cass, Minnetonka are all huge lakes that require a little more than a 16ft boat. Yes, you can fish the small lakes in Southern MN just fine with a 16ft boat pulled by a SUV (look at used car prices, still very expensive) but you're going to spend hours upon hours chasing mid 30s to low 40s fish. Mind as well just pike fish lakes instead with the same size structure and more action.
I see how you may think it costs less than that to get into the sport but in reality, it IS that much. You can't expect any sane person (even the type that wants to muskie fish) to drop 10k for a trash setup that lets you fish small southern MN lakes for low density fish.
I also find it funny the older generation always blames phones, attention spans, and lack of ambition for why hobbies are dying out. No, it's the fact that a double cowgirl is the same cost as two hours at most kids' minimum wage job haha. Not everyone lived in a time where college was cheap, you could buy a house for $100K, and your state pension and social security could allow you to safely float through retirement. Yes, the younger generations are far from perfect and have their problems but accessibility and barriers to entry are to blame along with the surly gatekeepers of information that refuse to help anyone out. I'm all for putting in the work and figuring it out yourself but just remember someone taught all of you to walk, talk, and read. But maybe I'm just wrong and "spoon fed" for realizing that I was fortunate enough to have someone help me get into the sport. |
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Posts: 32973
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | There are about 29000 views on the first page of the board. It's also summer, which is a slow time here. Not awful at all, and given the shift to social media, impressive that this community still takes some time here. We appreciate it for sure.
It's always been free, and it still ranks number one for a muskie information search. Could be a lot worse.
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Posts: 1
| Actually this forum was the top result on my search. In fairness it was specifically regarding Crow Lake in Ontario. Happy to have joined this forum for my time here at Crow and LOTW. |
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Posts: 108
| Has the aura left the sport?
As for a young guy starting out, when I did the hardest fishing in my life I was between 22 and 38 years old. I fished out of a 16 footer with a 25 horse. Took that boat everywhere, including LOTW, Eagle, Vermilion and parts of the Great Lakes. |
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Posts: 616
Location: WI | SouthernMNMuskie - 7/16/2026 11:12 AM
I find it funny that everyone is attacking the money aspect on it when that is the exact reason my friends don't muskie fish. I have asked my friends. We do talk every once in a while (even face-to-face if you would believe it). Mille Lacs, Vermillion, LOTW, Leech, Cass, Minnetonka are all huge lakes that require a little more than a 16ft boat. Yes, you can fish the small lakes in Southern MN just fine with a 16ft boat pulled by a SUV (look at used car prices, still very expensive) but you're going to spend hours upon hours chasing mid 30s to low 40s fish. Mind as well just pike fish lakes instead with the same size structure and more action.
I see how you may think it costs less than that to get into the sport but in reality, it IS that much. You can't expect any sane person (even the type that wants to muskie fish) to drop 10k for a trash setup that lets you fish small southern MN lakes for low density fish.
I also find it funny the older generation always blames phones, attention spans, and lack of ambition for why hobbies are dying out. No, it's the fact that a double cowgirl is the same cost as two hours at most kids' minimum wage job haha. Not everyone lived in a time where college was cheap, you could buy a house for $100K, and your state pension and social security could allow you to safely float through retirement. Yes, the younger generations are far from perfect and have their problems but accessibility and barriers to entry are to blame along with the surly gatekeepers of information that refuse to help anyone out. I'm all for putting in the work and figuring it out yourself but just remember someone taught all of you to walk, talk, and read. But maybe I'm just wrong and "spoon fed" for realizing that I was fortunate enough to have someone help me get into the sport.
If the bar for entry to the sport is fishing big water in a 17+ foot boat, then yes it is expensive. It’s not a barrier though, it’s a choice. I would argue that bar was expensive back in 2006 when I got out of school as well. Probably would have been expensive in 1986 too. My first 3 years were small rig, small water and they were an absolute blast.
Edited by raftman 7/16/2026 2:13 PM
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| I would argue that older musky guys don't help. I have seen a number of posts over the years by young guys asking about what it takes. They make clear they are on a budget and the responses would have you believe you must have four St. Croix Legend Tournament rods for multiple presentations, each with a $400 reel, plus two big boxes of lures. And don't even think about using a little tin boat. Must have a deep V fiberglass boat, and top of the line electronics or you might as well bank fish for bluegills. And that after they say they are on a budget. |
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Posts: 172
Location: Cedarburg, WI. | "but you're going to spend hours upon hours chasing mid 30s to low 40s fish. Mind as well just pike fish lakes instead with the same size structure and more action."
This makes me sad. I think the internet has ruined musky fishing for new comers. Maybe i read this wrong, but being bummed on chasing mid 30's to low 40's feels wrong.
If your getting into Musky's to chase internet numbers on big waters i feel bad for you.
Edited by Slopski 7/16/2026 2:50 PM
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