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Trophyseeker50 |
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Posts: 791 Location: WI | I have made a sad discovery over the last few weeks. I caught my largest fish in a few years a few weekends ago. Since than talking to friend and family I have found that we as musky anglers have a long way to go before catch and release is a household concept. At least in Wisconsin. I had to repeatedly explain to people why I released this fish rather than get it mounted or even eat it. You might say, well Andy , your family and friends are idiots. While this is debateble I would argue that the vast majority of them are rather good anglers in there chosen way. Most of which do not fish for Muskies. A few months ago at a tournament in N. WI I had a similar experience where a dock attendant for the tournament commented that of the fish caught, none were "keepers". This lake has a 50" limit I had to explain the concept of reproduction mounts and 50" size limits for creating trophy waters. Don't get me wrong. We have come a long way. But the people who do catch a Muskie by mistake and keep it typically are simply unaware of the options available today. I understand that fish are mortal and we as musky anglers try our best to get the fish we catch back safe. That being said, I think the next step is educating others to importance of Catch, Photo, Release. | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32958 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Been said here more times than I can count, and to a degree, is correct. How do you propose to do that? There's the rub. | ||
| Brad P |
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Posts: 833 | It isn't just in WI. If I talk to what I would call "non-enthusiast" anglers in MN one of the first questions I typically get asked is whether or not I eat the fish. My opinion is that 99% of this is ignorance more than anything else. I "think" most people's exposure to the world of fishing is to ultimately have a fish fry whether it be sunnies or walleye or whatever. So the question is natural. Moreover, it wouldn't be a surprise if one of these folks caught a fish and kept it to pack the freezer. Wasteful and unfortunate, but born of ignorance not animosity. I agree with Steve's take really not sure what to do to solve such a problem. We'd basically be trying to educate a dis-interested party. | ||
| BenR |
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| Finishing is good these days, it has never been easier for quality and quantity. I would spend more time trying to expand stocking than worry about the percentage of folks not interested in catch and release. | |||
| jchiggins |
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Posts: 1760 Location: new richmond, wi. & isle, mn | Just remember most of us are first or second generation of CPR. It's a resource enjoyed by many. Just this summer watched a family land a 41" musky that they didn't know what to do with. I took a couple photos for them on my phone, and explained most people targeting muskie would release the fish. Sent them photos, email and text. Long story short , they were all pleased with their decision. Agreed they need a camera in the boat in case they get a muskie again. | ||
| Guest |
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| Its a problem everywhere. My cottage is in the UP and the majority of my fishing is done up there and when speaking with locals up there about muskies you would think your talking about carp. just early October I had a conversation with a 60 year Iron County resident and he told me to throw any muskies I catch onto shore as they are eating all his walleyes and panfish. I tried to explain that the lack of catch and release is why the population of his food source is down, its not the muskies fault. Its a sad story but I know where I'm at in the UP 50 inchers are rare, and it seems like every time you hear of one being caught, you also hear that it is now dead. | |||
| fishpoop |
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Posts: 656 Location: Forest Lake, Mn. | Talked to a couple of guys at the boat launch on one of the Metro lakes earlier this summer. Asked them how the fishing was. They said they had a few bass that day, mostly smallmouth and a largemouth. Asked them if they'd heard anything about muskies? They said that they weren't muskie fisherman and that they wished there were no muskies in the lake as the bass fishing wasn't good anymore. One guy said he was fighting a bass and a very big muskie came up and hit his bass. He said he had it on for a few minutes and it was fun but the muskie got away with his smallmouth bass. I asked him if that wasn't enough to get him excited about muskie fishing. He said, no and wished they'd kill all the muskies. I just shook my head at him and walked away. What do you do with that kind of an attitude? | ||
| Trophyseeker50 |
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Posts: 791 Location: WI | I guess half of the reason it started this thread was because I dont know what to do about this other than reach out to other like minded people here to get them thinking about this subject. There is a post here about how many people fish for Muskies. Although the number is debateble one thing is certain is that if even half of that number makes an effort to help others understand we can make a difference. I get that there will always be the moron who thinks that the Muskies ate all the lakes fish but every little bit starts. And really I think this falls on to the DNR and companies who have a vested interest in it. No offense Steve but you have the ability to effect more people than any of us. My hope is that we can cure some of the ignorance over time. Edited by Trophyseeker50 11/4/2013 6:34 AM | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32958 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Talking about this here is pretty much preaching to the choir. Muskies Inc. does a good job, as does several other clubs, but the idea that all muskies should be released is a tough one to get out to folks who do not fish them, don't talk to those who do regularly, or follow the sport The issue is there is no affordable vehicle to carry the message to those who wouldn't see it here, at Muskies Inc, etc other than the signs at the landings and billboards MI places. The DNR has no responsibility to 'tell' people they 'should' release legal muskies unless the fishery is being managed as catch and release. Lots of reasons to not want a complete CPR management plan; it's better to get limits where the big fish are better protected. | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32958 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Here's an example of what we try to do regularly. A piece written for those who are not the Holy Grail muskie addicts by OFM. http://www.basspro1source.com/index.php/component/k2/19-muskie-fish... Last paragraph. | ||
| fins355 |
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Posts: 280 | I'm going to chime in on this one. I think part of the problem with the education of CPR is the approach taken by some "advocates" of C&R. C&R is an option on many waters with a size and bag limit. It allows for a choice to be made by the angler. That choice also plays into the management of the respective DNR on waters not C&R only. I have always supported the practice of C&R, however I think the idea of an anglers choice is even more important. I have had had many occasions to discuss this concept with avid musky anglers and "activists" and have come away with a less than favorable view of the promotion of C&R by some who should certainly learn a better approach to PR. Frankly, in some of my discussions on the internet the name calling by some advocates of 100% C&R became brutal and actually childish. It is an attitude that I believe can and will do more harm to the musky community by alienating many who would eventually, maybe, embrace the musky fishery and the idea of C&R. Unfortunately rather than explain the C&R idea in the form of "education", many I have come in contact with have taken the approach of mandatory "indoctrination" and acceptance of their version of a C&R mandate. Not everyone will choose to release a legally caught musky, even after being educated in the benefits of C&R. That's OK with me. I think excercizing the freedom of choice is more important than being intimidated into doing something one would not otherwise choose to do. Just me....and many others. DougP | ||
| fins355 |
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Posts: 280 | Trophyseeker50 mention in his original post; "the people who do catch a Muskie by mistake and keep it typically are simply unaware of the options available today." That may be true in many instances but certainly not all. Many "educated" anglers choose to have what they consider a special fish done as a skin mount rather than a replica. I think that is a choice to be respected and not demeaned or villified. If you want to try to change their mind, fine. I just think it needs to be discussed in a respectful manner without an "I know better than you" attitude. DougP Edited by fins355 11/4/2013 11:21 AM | ||
| short STRIKE |
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Posts: 470 Location: Blaine, MN | Perhaps utilizing tems such as "Ignorant" and "moron" has something to do with how certain messages are received? Just a thought... but someone doesn't believe/practice the same things we do, and they are automatically negatively labeled? Not the best way to entice individuals who maybe haven't made up their mind one way or another to be Pro CPR or not. | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32958 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Agree with the last two strongly. | ||
| keithtrophyfishn.com |
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Posts: 42 Location: Ontario | This year Ontario started a voluntary program for educating anglers . It test them on all species and the regulations that go along with them. They give people new to fishing or our country an opportunity to learn the right way the first time. It is only in Toronto now but they hope to expand the program. In it students are also taught how to target them. The way I see it is any little bit should help. | ||
| mecoltin123 |
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Posts: 146 Location: Alsip, IL | keeping fish is a fisherman's RIGHT. If its legal and you think it would look great above your fireplace in the living room then you have a RIGHT to keep it. Personally I just love to fish for muskies, nothing like seeing or 4 foot shadow just emerge from nowhere and blow up on your lure at your feet. I have never and will never keep one, but I have an uncle that mounted a 38 inch fish from tomahawk a while back, I chuckle every time I see it. I know a lot of guys around Chicago that fish around here but don't get the treat of traveling and catching muskies as many of you do. to them a 42 inch fish is the fish of a lifetime and they are so excited in that moment lifting it out of the net that they decide to mount it, also don't forget about the people that depend on nature for food. A good size muskie is a delicacy to a lot of people I talk to up north. It is what it is, do your part and release all the fish you catch safely and try to promote CPR when the opportunity arises. | ||
| Trophyseeker50 |
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Posts: 791 Location: WI | As with all posts I thought about the reprecussions of putting a post out there about this. You think about how it will be received and what parts might be taken out of context. Maybe I shouldn't use words like moron or ignorance but in the context they where used I didn't think it to be offensive. For that I apologize. That being said, I brought this up because like I said if we make a concerted effort to teach even one person about the options available to them for replica mounts. And instill the thought process that that fish might be enjoyed again by them or someone else. Obviously if we go about this in the wrong way we might do more damage than good. You can never change everything and I never suggested a 100% catch and release policy but I find it alittle disconcerting that on a website that revolves around musky fishing, so many people would take what was simply a hope for protecting a resource from a different direction and pick it apart. Not saying that everyone must jump on board and no one should keep fish. Just don't understand why in this day and age you wouldn't just get a replica. Easier, more durable, in most cases cheaper, and a great way to let someone else enjoy that same fish. | ||
| DLC |
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Posts: 82 | Our MI chapter (54) in Mn has done the state fair and county fairs. These are great places to meet other anglers that aren't the hard core muskie nut jobs like the rest of us. The best approach we have found is having a high quality reproduction and a high quality older skin mount and letting people see the difference and all see the difference. (Sorry Bill) Explain the tools you need for a successful release and NEVER belittle someone for keeping one because it is their choice after all. Also it helps to have scientific info from biologists that explain the benifits of muskies in the lakes they are in. It all takes time and we are muskie anglers after all, so we should be used to patience. | ||
| Sidejack |
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Posts: 1082 Location: Aurora | I'm down with DP on this one. Pushing anything on people just pushes them the other way. Also, everyone hates secret societies so be aware that if people are asking, they're open to listening so be a listener yourself. Inform, tell them what to throw, give'm a bait to use, show them some "appropriate" pictures of yourself hoisting a few biggies or, ~gasp~ pull out a map and mark a few spots for them. If that's too much work, stick to the 3 point plan below: 1) Reach out to youth by organizing/volunteering at fish camps & outings. 2) Continue to grow the sport/industry all inclusively (i.e. invite people in to your cliques, MI meetings, backyard chili cook-offs). 3) We all pitch in on a series of bill board ads stressing C&R, Mythbusting, and realities of skin mounts (shrinkage, discoloration, foam-not-fish, etc). | ||
| Trophyseeker50 |
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Posts: 791 Location: WI | That is awesome. What a great way to go about things. Most people I have talked to have never heard of a replica mount much less seen one. Most of them are respective and intrigued by the idea. The more I learn about musky clubs the more good I find out they do. Between stocking locally and events like this they do make a difference. | ||
| dfkiii |
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 Location: Sawyer County, WI | I couldn't have said it better myself. Amen brother ! fins355 - 11/4/2013 11:01 AM I'm going to chime in on this one. I think part of the problem with the education of CPR is the approach taken by some "advocates" of C&R. C&R is an option on many waters with a size and bag limit. It allows for a choice to be made by the angler. That choice also plays into the management of the respective DNR on waters not C&R only. I have always supported the practice of C&R, however I think the idea of an anglers choice is even more important. I have had had many occasions to discuss this concept with avid musky anglers and "activists" and have come away with a less than favorable view of the promotion of C&R by some who should certainly learn a better approach to PR. Frankly, in some of my discussions on the internet the name calling by some advocates of 100% C&R became brutal and actually childish. It is an attitude that I believe can and will do more harm to the musky community by alienating many who would eventually, maybe, embrace the musky fishery and the idea of C&R. Unfortunately rather than explain the C&R idea in the form of "education", many I have come in contact with have taken the approach of mandatory "indoctrination" and acceptance of their version of a C&R mandate. Not everyone will choose to release a legally caught musky, even after being educated in the benefits of C&R. That's OK with me. I think excercizing the freedom of choice is more important than being intimidated into doing something one would not otherwise choose to do. Just me....and many others. DougP | ||
| Supertanker |
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| It seems as though the point here was missed completely. Yes, we all have a right to keep or eat Muskies. But to say that lots of people consider Muskies a delicacy?! I have lived in northern wi for 50 years. NEVER have I heard some one say musky is there favorite fish and they rely on it for food. Also no one said anything about vilifying some one who chooses to mount a fish. The point was to help spread the word. That's all. | |||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32958 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Trophyseeker50 - 11/5/2013 6:16 PM As with all posts I thought about the reprecussions of putting a post out there about this. You think about how it will be received and what parts might be taken out of context. Maybe I shouldn't use words like moron or ignorance but in the context they where used I didn't think it to be offensive. For that I apologize. That being said, I brought this up because like I said if we make a concerted effort to teach even one person about the options available to them for replica mounts. And instill the thought process that that fish might be enjoyed again by them or someone else. Obviously if we go about this in the wrong way we might do more damage than good. You can never change everything and I never suggested a 100% catch and release policy but ---I find it alittle disconcerting that on a website that revolves around musky fishing, so many people would take what was simply a hope for protecting a resource from a different direction and pick it apart.--- Not saying that everyone must jump on board and no one should keep fish. Just don't understand why in this day and age you wouldn't just get a replica. Easier, more durable, in most cases cheaper, and a great way to let someone else enjoy that same fish. Harsh reality intervenes sometimes. | ||
| jasonvkop |
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Posts: 618 Location: Michigan | I'm still surprised at how many muskie anglers don't know how to handle fish when they catch them. I see tons of videos on youtube from muskie fishermen in which fish are lifted into the boat and dropped on the floor or held up vertically with a boga-grip. These aren't just random fishermen who accidentally catch a muskie, these are individuals targeting them all year long. I thought with all the information out there people who target muskies all the time would know simple things such as leaving the fish in the water while unhooking it. | ||
| miket55 |
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Posts: 1352 Location: E. Tenn | ignorance (noun) a lack of knowledge, understanding, or education I don't think that word was used out of context at all.. Edited by miket55 11/7/2013 5:19 AM | ||
| Ja Rule |
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Posts: 415 | jasonvkop - 11/6/2013 10:37 PM I'm still surprised at how many muskie anglers don't know how to handle fish when they catch them. I see tons of videos on youtube from muskie fishermen in which fish are lifted into the boat and dropped on the floor or held up vertically with a boga-grip. These aren't just random fishermen who accidentally catch a muskie, these are individuals targeting them all year long. I thought with all the information out there people who target muskies all the time would know simple things such as leaving the fish in the water while unhooking it. I agree. I feel this is just as big of a deal or more so than a couple non muskie anglers catching a random fish and keeping it here or there. The guys specifically targeting them are more than likely contacting and handling many more fish than the average anglers not targeting them. And if they don't handle them properly they are killing more fish over time than the non-musky anglers. I've seen lots of fish handling on youtube videos or even pretty big name TV shows or DVD's that is deplorable. Just look at some of the pics that show up in the "Big Fish" contest. We all know there are a handful of those fish that stood no chance. | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32958 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | miket55, The point was that those terms should not be used in the delivery of the message to anglers who are not as well informed as most of us here on CPR. Ja Rule, The fisheries management folks for the most part consider muskies a renewable resource. It's up to them, unless the lake is 100% NR, to stock what they feel will sustain the fishery, and up to them to set size limits to meet angler expectations and match realistic management of each system. A 'handful' won't crush the sport, and management and angler CPR has made the muskie fishing better now than it has ever been. Sure, we all know CRR education is important and needs to be forwarded at every opportunity, but at the same time we all need to remember back to the time we each were 'ignorant' of that information...and how we learned. A really good way for me to start the conversation once it's brought up is, " I used to feel the same way you do. Please let me tell you what I have learned about Catch, Photo, and Release from some of the best anglers in the world and the good folks at Muskies Inc." Beats "That's really stupid, you ignorant moron! How could you not know about CPR?" Or, "How can you be so stupid to handle a fish like that?" I was one of the first folks up here in this area to promote Catch and Release (about the same time as Dave Snoddy and Roger Sabota began spreading the message), and was encouraged to do so by the very early efforts of Muskies Inc. and Al and Ron Lindner. Everyone thought I was nuts to toss back a Wisconsin 48" fish. Before that, I killed every single legal fish I caught, that's how it was back in the late 60's and early 70's. Polaroid cameras made it easier to sell CPR to the average muskie fisherman. Then came digital cameras. And the internet. And here we are now, talking to hundreds of thousands of muskie anglers a year. Hopefully, especially if the CPR protocol is properly expressed, others will become as informed as you and I. | ||
| Ja Rule |
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Posts: 415 | sworrall - 11/7/2013 8:43 AM A 'handful' won't crush the sport I agree. My point was more that some of the CPR muskie fisherman are killing more fish or harming the fisheries more than the occasional accidental catch being kept, not that this poor handling is crushing the sport. So instead of people getting bent out of shape about the occasional musky being harvested, I feel many of these people need to look in the mirror at how they are handling fish themselves first. Edited by Ja Rule 11/7/2013 9:36 AM | ||
| AndyM |
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| I only read the initial post and my initial response is: "It is not up to you what others do." I understand your love for the musky and hey it could also be one of your desires to put one in the boat,only to put it back so someone else MIGHT get that chance to experience what you just did. Esox Masquinongy aren't on the endangered species list yet! It doesn't look like they ever will be in our lifetime, either. Does it? I love musky fishing and thanks to size limits, most of the fish I do catch are illegal to keep. The one's I'm going for are the ones that made it. The true trophy fish. I respect that you can do whatever you want with it. | |||
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