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| Message Subject: Help a novice Muskie Fisherman | |||
John |
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| Hey guys my name is John, I am 19 years old and have been fishing Deer lake in Polk county for the past 4 years for Muskie. I have a lake house up there and I constantly go out fishing. The past three years I have on and off fished for Muskie with very little success. I landed a small 22 incher 3 years ago, got one big muskie to the boat but lost it when trying to net it 2 years ago and then nothing last year. This summer I have fished well over 75 hours on the lake for Muskie with no success. I have a standard 7 foot rod with a Shimano Corvalus cvl 300, I regularly cast either a 9 inch suick thriller, a black Hi-Fin "Creeper", and a double bladed Northland boobie trap buck tail about 9 inches long, and a small 6 inch creek chub pikie. I fished for 10 hours just in the past two days and haven't even seen a Muskie. I've heard about lots of spearing going on in the winters, but I don't blame it on the lake, I think I just must be doing something horribly wrong. I fish out of a 14ft row boat with a 5 horse motor and small trolling motor, I also have a depth finder. Man I just need some help, without being able to land any fish regardless of how many hours I have put in, I basically have no experience. I just need to start landing some fish put its seems I can't even do that. Any help would be SO VERY appreciated. Your new friend, John | |||
| Bucky_Musky |
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Posts: 152 | John, I have never fished the lake myself, but am aware that it is a fairly popular lake with recreational boaters and such. I fish a lake similar to it a couple times a year that has recreational pressure and ultra clear water. While I cannot give you any advise on spots, lures, etc., I would say that you can maximize your chances of hooking up with fish by fishing it on cloudy days and low-light conditions. If possible, also fish it during the week or at night. Being a "deepish" clear water lake, I am assuming it also has a fairly decent cisco/whitefish, etc population. On clear lakes it seems like open water fishing gives you the best chance of success, which for me at least, is also the most difficult type of fishing. I have trouble locating balls of baitfish, but if you can, cast above and through the school of baitfish like you would any other structure. I know what it is like not to have the cash to get all sorts of recommended lures that you 'need,' but I believe a regular bulldawg or medussa in a natural color could help you work some of the deeper main lake humps (if any) and points. My last suggestion would be if you can't locate baitfish on your depthfinder and the shoreline bite isn't there, try working a cast or two off of the drop offs or points for suspended fish. As I stated earlier though, on clear lakes, your best bet to get bit is during cloudy or low-light conditions, IMO. Good Luck John! | ||
| Guest |
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| Thanks for responding. I don't really understand how to fish open water well, any tips? Just use my map and locate some of the higher humps in the lake and fish over them? Also another question, should I try using smaller lures? Around 6 inches? If I were to get a Medussa, should I just get the regular size? | |||
| Bucky_Musky |
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Posts: 152 | I am not the best at open water fishing, and am trying to improve. I believe that certain basins and different bottom compositions can help determine where bait fish are. I would figure out what the predominant forage is in the lake and figure out what kind of bottoms/depths they prefer. Remember to fish above the thermocline. I wouldn't get too hung up on smaller lures. With a 7' "regular" rod ( I am guessing it is a MH or H) you cannot throw huge lures anyway w/o putting too much stress on your rod ( and yourself). If you were to get the medussa, definitely go with the mini-medussa. I believe they just came out with a newer size between the mini and regular, but have not seen it yet. | ||
| Musky Brian |
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Posts: 1767 Location: Lake Country, Wisconsin | I am not familiar with the lake you are fishing...but I think you could make a better choice on your bucktail. Grab a Mepps Musky Marabou or a Buchertail 700 series, those are a little smaller but quite effective on WI Muskies. Pound the weeds relentlessly ( assuming there are some?) and I am sure at some point one will make a mistake.... | ||
| John |
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| Gotcha. I was thinking my bucktail might not be the best choice. I think I will go and pick up a new Mepps. I definitely will look into getting a Medussa or Bull Dawg. As for fishing above the thermocline, can you explain this a little futher? I am not well informed on this subject. -John | |||
| FishingFool |
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Location: Eau Claire,WI | Pick up a few more lures...tail spinning topwater like a Top Raider or PaceMaker, a glide bait,natural color,(perch/walleye) and a single bladed bucktail,Mepps,Peterson,Bucher... Fish the weeds ... inside,outide edges and go in after em,middle too. Try early,VERY early like just before sunrise and again just before and after the sun sets. There are nice muskies there,keep after them! | ||
| Guest |
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| Well, I started to explain the thermocline, but I figured John has already Googled it by now. Sounds like he's getting "afflicted". | |||
| Bucky_Musky |
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Posts: 152 | John, I would follow FishingFools instructions. With your depthfinder, and even my Elite 5 DSI/GPS, it is tough to find baitfish to fish open water efficiently. Weeds will give you the best chance to hook up without unloading some coin on new equipment. Get out early/late and fish the weed edges, inside turns, weeds jutting out on points, etc. Without recommending "too many" lures, which is hard not to do, A musky maribou would be great for over weeds or in shallower water, the mepps musky magnum (fluted blade) would be good for the mid-range depths and the Mepps Giant Musky Killer (willow blade) would work the deeper edges better. The blade shape and blade cup of each is different, providing different lift. With that said, there are no "rules" against using the Giant Musky Killer in shallow water or Maribou in deep. I have had fair success with burning the Giant Killer in skinny water. On clear water lakes, I have found odd patterns from time to time where skis are cruising the sand flats on the inside edge in 2-4 ft of water early in the mornings. Haven't got a reason for it yet. Although I have heard of "sand" bites before. | ||
| John |
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| Thanks Bucky, Okay I will take your advice on those three different styles of bucktails/blades. One question that probably is very hard to answer would be how do I know when to change up my lure or bucktail style? This morning when I was out at 545 am, I fished the Northland double bladed boobie trap for almost 4 hours straight without seeing a muskie. However, this is not weird to me as I am used to not catching anything :(. Should I try and sit on the same edge of weeds for a long period of time and work different lures to see if anything gets hit? or do I fish a certain style say for an hour and if its not working and then switch? (I feel as if this decision would mostly come from an intuition based upon muskie experience which I largely lack.) | |||
| DLC |
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Posts: 82 | I used to fish this lake all the time so here's some of my tips. Copper and brass blades with either orange or yellow hair. Wendalls musky Harasser 's are killer out there. The muskies really focus on the small crappies out there. Find the points and flats and spend most of your time there and you will get bit. Also in the evening look for the crappies to look like someone is throwing rocks out of the water and then you know exactly where an active muskie is located. Hope this helps. | ||
| waterwolfhunter |
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Posts: 131 Location: Lake St. Clair | John I am also by no means a professional but may be able to give you a few general tips as far as baitfish and spot/lure slection. I fish Lake St. Clair pretty much exclusively when it is open and I fish rubber 98% of the time. Of course in a lake like that its pounders and big medussas but on a smaller scale this could also work for you. Muskies get used to the same straight retrieve after a while. This is why bulldawgs and medusa's can be very effective. There is no wrong way to fish them, which is also nice for a beginner. The more erratic the better. Muskies seem to go nuts when there is a larger profile bait swimming up and falling and ripping side to side. Everything that has been said about low light times should be a big help for you. Tail prop style topwater baits can be awesome first thing in the morning and right at dark. Work them very slow, just fast enough to keep the prop spinning. If you go too fast the fish will miss it everytime. I am a firm believer in fishing slowly and picking spots apart. My boat is usually moving about .3-.6 mph while I am casting. A lot of days I will not change a bait the whole day. I may change colors based on water color but usually will not change baits. I try to be more concerned about when the fish are going to eat rather than what they are going to eat. As the water warms up, 75 degrees or higher, reeling a bucktail as fast as you can is also a good option. This can create a reaction strike. If you don't give the fish any time to think about what it is that's whizzing over their head at 100 mph, they will smash it out of reaction. if you find big blobs suspended on your depthfinder, that is baitfish. In the summer this is how we fish LSC. try to figure out exactly where they are in relation to your boat and cast into them. If you find baitfish, there are muskies nearby. If you have cabbage in your lake, focus on those areas. This is what they call the spot on the spot. You may have a large weedbed but if you can locate the portion that is cabbage, that will be your highest percentage spot. Don't forget that what you are doing, casting for muskies, is not easy!!! it took me a long time to catch my first one, but you learn from every fish you catch. Pay attention to the details. If you raise a fish, try to figure out why that fish was there and start to develop a pattern. Always revisit spots where you raise fish right before dark, odds are they haven't moved and may then be ready to eat. Keep at it and keep fishing hard. It will pay off!!! Good Luck!! | ||
| Bucky_Musky |
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Posts: 152 | As to how often to change lures, it is a judgement call. Obviously if you move a fish on a lure, but it is a lazier follow, you can change up your lure choice, or come back to the same fish at moon rise/set, weather change etc. However, when you are not moving fish (I fall in this category plenty on my own), it is best not to get too lure change crazy. Feel out the conditions and go with your instinct. If it is a hot time (sun/moon rise/set, weather change, etc), search lures such as a bucktail or topraider style bait are probably your best options for quickly looking for active fish. During PROJECTED low activity times, you can try to feel out what you think fish will want, but this is generally when glides, jerks, twitchbaits, etc will get the most nods. These are by no means "rules" though and once again, do not get caught up buying a lot of lures. The number one thing I can recommend to you is to purchase Jim Saric & Steve Heiting's book, " Complete Guide to Musky Hunting." It is available on their website muskyhunter.com. It provides a lot of good info for starters and even some good reminders for seasonal vets alike. | ||
| Bucky_Musky |
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Posts: 152 | To go along with water WaterWolfHunter said in his closing remarks, do not get discouraged. I am only in my 4th year musky fishing and in my first two years, I only landed 1 fish. Didn't catch a fish my 2nd year. Had plenty of missed opportunities and tried to learn from them quick. Musky fishing is addicting after that 1st one and after that, I started reading everything I could on them (which is how I stumbled across this website). With all the info and suggestions that will be made though, the #1 thing that helps people is just time out on the water applying what they have learned. Starting out, I spent too much time running and gunning, hitting all of the "musky spots" on the lakes. I started to learn my 2nd year, it is much more efficient in the learning curve to SLOW down on spots. Pick apart them from different angles and really learn the ins and outs of each spot. Just running from spot to spot and firing off a few casts doesn't teach you much about where the fish are relating or the spots themselves. | ||
| Jbodeau |
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Posts: 14 | Thanks so much guys! Looks like heres what I will be taking away from this thread and the lures I am going to buy this week: -I need to find the points and flats and pick apart the areas, .3-.6 mph slowly while carefully placing my casts. -Try and fish right before sunrise into early morning and then right before and after sunset, working all sides of weeds, inside, outside and right in them. -Find bait in open water on my depth finder and try to countdown my casts with a medussa or bull dawg to try and place it in the midst of the bait -Use overcast days and wind to my advantage I will be most likely buying: Mepps musky Marabou Mepps giant Musky killer, Mepps Musky Magnum or Wendalls musky harasser Topraider and hopefully a Medussa or Bull dawg preferably going with a black, orange or yellow hair -fish above the thermocline if fishing open water. Thanks so much for the help, if you have more I would love to keep getting advice, I am trying to take in as much information as I can, I want to land one of these suckers! (and then hopefully post a picture after this weekend) Edited by Jbodeau 7/10/2013 10:57 PM | ||
| Ranger |
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Posts: 3861 | Well, in addition to the good ideas above, do a bunch of searches on this site for lots of info. This is an old general question that has been hit so many times. For open water, dial up the contrast on you finder until you can see the thermocline, that is the primary structure you will be fishing. Pods of baitfish usually drift between the thermo and the surface. Muskies stalk the pods. Find the average depth of the pods and you have found how deep your bait should be. Figure that anytime your bait is not in or just above that depth you are on "downtime", time that you should expect to not move a fish. With every cast max out the time that your bait is in or just above the zone where the baitfish are hanging out. Bucktails are not the best go-to for suspended fish in open water, unless the fish are up toward the surface. Then rip away but it is my limited opinion that really big fish rarely cat/mouse any bait that is screaming by. Much better to tease those fish into a strike with a twitched crank, a weighted glide, a jig/creature, or a jig/minnow. Keep the bait in their face, make them turn back to take another look over and over. 2 cents | ||
| Brad P |
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Posts: 833 | That lake is not likely to have a strong Cisco/White Fish population, it is far too south and the water will be genrally too warm for that kind of forage. (they migh be in there, but the conditions are not ideal for them) More likely the open water fish will be perch and panfish. Check your DNR reports to confirm. John, my advice to you is to do some research on Seasonal Progression. There is a great Musky Hunter article by Bob Mesikhomer (Sp?) about Muskies by degress which describes seasonal movements based on water temps. This is a good place to start. However, remember that this season we are dealing with a very extreme factor in that for most of the WI/MN range the ice didn't come off the lakes until early May vs. early April. That means the Calendar is also coming into to play and seasonal temp factors are not entirely accurate. How this plays out on your body of water will only be learned via experience. In general, the Twin Cities is in a trolling pattern right now, ie open water. The guys I know who are having success are trolling blades fast. Now you probably do not have the tackle to run a 10 or 13 at 5MPH as that is about as brutal a presentation on gear there is. Howver, that doesn't mean you are out of the game. What does that presentation tell us? Reading between the lines a bit, it says the fish want baits high in the water column and are responding to high speed. So grab a shallow running crankbait and run it on a short leash, so 15-20' back of your rig in the wash and troll it as fast as your gear will allow. Given where the pattern is at right now, this would seem to me to be your best bet for getting slime in your net. That being said, structure fishing is good as well. Even if you are not contacting fish (which sucks) you are gaining important information on the layout of the structure, weeds, of your chosen body of water. That will help once the fish start using said locations. Edited by Brad P 7/11/2013 9:10 AM | ||
| Jbodeau |
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Posts: 14 | Thanks a lot Brad, very helpful post. Do you have a recommended crankbait for the trolling setup you are talking about? | ||
| Brad P |
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Posts: 833 | Lots of good brands out there, I like Slammers, Big Games, and Custom Xs just to name a few. The big thing is depth, so avoid deep divers. I'd problaby stay in the smaller 6"-8" range. When trolling make sure to drive erratically and to switch up your speed occaisionally. Speed and Direction changes are good triggers. It is way too easy to over think these fish. I'm very guilty of it. At some point you just have to recognize you are chasing a musky which is a low density critter. So ultimately the old adage of "shut up and fish" is true. Just go out there and put your time in. Keep your eyes open and observe what clues nature gives up. Evenutally you'll find success. | ||
| MD75 |
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Posts: 682 Location: Sycamore, IL | Trolling is a great suggestion for learning this lake. Try trolling a Rapala Super Shad Rap in perch or chrome 25 ft back along steep breaking shorelines and deep weed edges. If this lake doesn't have a bunch of floating weeds just hold the rod in your hand and pump it every so often to impart some extra action to the lure...if lots of weeds you'll need a rod holder to put the rod "down" to collect the floaters. Good luck! | ||
| Rainman JD |
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Posts: 260 Location: Lockport, IL | Sent a PM | ||
| Shep |
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Posts: 5874 | Only fished the lake one day, but we moved fish on smaller bucktails like Boo-Tails and Ghost Tails. Chart/Orange blade with black or yellow hair seemed to work for the Boo-Tails. We moved the most fish on the east end off the weed edges, and also on the big flat on the south side of the lake. That was also toward the eastern end. Pick the weed edge apart, and work those flats out to 15-20 feet. There's a fellow on here and a great guide, Howie Meyer, who can do a great job of explaining the thermocline. He calls it the thermo-refuge. Try to look him up and ask him to give you a few thoughts on this. Search for thermocline on here, and there will be some good discussion found. Also, try to get in touch with Travis Kopke, the Cisco Kid. He's one of the best at fishing out in the abyss.
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| curleytail |
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Posts: 2687 Location: Hayward, WI | I'm not an expert at this but a simple way to find the thermocline is turn up your depth finder till you see a line of "clutter" in the water column. It will look like you're marking pods of bugs or something, but will be a line that looks maybe 1-3 feet thick on your depthfinder. Basically, that line represents a fairly abrupt change in water temperature and oxygen levels. Below the thermocline the water is cold but commonly has low oxygen levels. Not favorable living conditions for many fish below the thermocline. At the surface of the water, the summer temps can be too warm and stressful on fish. Muskies preferred temp range is around 70 degrees, give or take a few. The area in the few feet above the thermocline tends to be about this temperature and will often hold fish. I've never fished Deer, but I'd guess the thermocline will set up there with the top of it in about 16-18 feet of water. I'd probably be trying to run my baits about 8-14 feet deep when you see the thermocline setup, and rarely or never fish below it. If the weedline grows in 15+ feet of water, that's a good situation as the fish can sit at the base of the weedline and be in their preferred comfort zone. Also look towards any structure like humps that come out from deep water and top out at or above the thermocline. Finally open water. If the lake has small crappies they like to suspend a lot and muskies will follow. Look for them anywhere from a cast length to a hundred yards out from weedlines, points, humps, etc. Sometimes they will be in true open water seemingly relating to nothing... Baits that will let you fish at these depths include rubber baits like Bulldawgs, Medussas, Super D's, or Curly Sues, and crankbaits like Depthraiders and Triple D's (one of my favorites). Fish are caught all year long on topwater, jerkbaits, and bucktails, but for me, when the water gets warm and I can see the thermocline on my depthfinder, I like to head out a little deeper. About the shallowest my baits land is right on the edge of a weedline, with my boat often in 25+ feet of water. Fish a little deeper and try to get your baits down deeper and you might have some luck. A couple words: 1.)The thermocline might not be set up yet with the late spring we had. I still start to see fish moving deeper when the surface temps are consistently 75+. 2.) Don't expect to get many follows fishing like this. My experience is you probably won't see a fish until it smokes your bait. Most of them just seem to eat rather than follow. Don't rule out fishing the shallower weed spots since a lot of guys fish weeds all year and catch fish doing it. However, if you've pounded the weeds for days with nothing to show, try sliding out another cast length or two and try that for a day or two. Good luck. Post pictures of your success! Tucker Edited by curleytail 7/12/2013 10:53 AM | ||
| Jbodeau |
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Posts: 14 | Thanks guys, stopping at Cabelas this afternoon to pik up some of these lures then I will fish all weekend and hopefully have some pictures to post up after this weekend!! -John | ||
| Jbodeau |
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Posts: 14 | Hey guys! So I went out fishing this weekend. I fished Friday night 6-930, saturday morning 530 - 9 and saturday night 6-930 , all with no luck. Then on sunday morning I hooked a real big one on a bull dawg (walleye color) in about 16 feet of water on the edge of a weedline!! So excited. I was fishing alone though and messing with the net with one hand while trying to keep tension on the line with the other allowed the muskie to thrash boatside and spit my lure. Really excited even though I didn't get her in the boat, she was ws at least 3 feet, but probably quite a few inches bigger. I hadn't seen a fish in so many hours fishing, so this is really nice encouragement. Edited by Jbodeau 7/15/2013 7:44 AM | ||
| Bucky_Musky |
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Posts: 152 | Good to hear John. Keep at it. | ||
| Rainman JD |
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Posts: 260 Location: Lockport, IL | Thanks for following up with a report. It's good to hear you hooked one. Hopefully next time you will be able to get her in the net and take a pic. Good luck out there. | ||
| curleytail |
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Posts: 2687 Location: Hayward, WI | Nice to hear you had some action! It doesn't take much to gain confidence. One other thing to pay some attention to is the moon. Some people seem to have different experiences but I normally have much better luck when the moon is down. This weekend the moon was down in the mornings. It rose at about 11:00am on Saturday and 12:00pm on Sunday. You can find moonrise/moonset calendars if you search Google, or each issue of Musky Hunter has them listed too. I fished fairly hard this weekend (two of us in the boat) and had slow fishing but caught a 46 on a Hardhead (kind of similar to a Bulldawg). I was in about 22 feet of water casting towards a 10 foot weedline, so that pattern may be picking up. That was the only fish we contacted in about 18 hours of fishing between Saturday and Sunday. It certainly isn't always fast fishing! I practiced with my net a little when I first started fishing alone. It seemed a little silly but I hooked a long stick to a bait and "netted" it a few times. It gave me a rough idea of how much line I should keep out, where to hold the net, etc. Also make sure you have a file and sharpen your hooks! They aren't nearly sharp enough from the factory. Getting them to bite is 90% of the challenge so congrats on hooking into one. Looking forward to seeing pictures of one you catch next weekend. Tucker Edited by curleytail 7/15/2013 11:00 AM | ||
| buckup |
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| John, that is called a "quick release". If you decide to troll and have trouble with weeds, a down rod works, but so does a "hooker". I use a 5 ft, 80 lb fluorocarbon leader with a 150 lb or greater barrel swivel tied to the line and a 150 lb snap to connect the leader to the bearing and allow the barrel swivel snap to hang free. To this, I attach a LARGE treble hook. This will catch (hook) the floating weeds well before they can get to your lure. As you'll be fishing within 30 ft of the boat, you can see when the hook loads up and needs to be cleared. For me, this reduces by 80% the number of times I must pull the lure to clear fouling. Good luck! | |||
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