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| Hey There Muskie 1st Dudes & Dudettes,
Mike and I have been trying to figure out how to market the second edition of our book, with the additional lures. We've found that most guys only want the book for their particular 3 or 4 baits. No need to have it for another 43 baits. We are considering selling just particular baits, via paypal, on our website. Our major concern, is that once we release a couple of baits, are there going to be excel spreadsheets all over the internet, rippin' our information??
Can you give me some of your wisdom please?
Donnie  |
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| are there going to be excel spreadsheets all over the internet, rippin' our information??
Can you give me some of your wisdom please?
anyone who owns a copy could post that info just as easily right now.
i don't think it'd be enough of an issue to impact sales.
i'll buy the whole book b/c i like the water-resistant pages for in the boat.
if i wanted info on a couple lures, i'd buy it and so will most people i think.
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Posts: 1316
Location: Lebanon,Mo | just my thinkin,but i think if there was a way to show the depth a bulldawg of dif. sizes being trolled with and without added weight would spark alot of attention.
and i think that having the book in the boat rather than trying to gain depth charts off the internet would be alot easier just to buy the book and not be a cheap scape. and i love the book,its great and thank you!!!
Edited by missourimuskyhunter 12/12/2006 3:14 PM
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| We have ALL of the rubber baits in the new book, WITH and WITHOUT weights....so, it is a marketable product, but a major issue is this....it is cost prohibitive to print another book, at the pricing of the printing. If we don't print 10,000, the pricing is VERY high. But, we barely sold 2,800 before...so, keep the ideas and thoughts coming.
Lambeau, thanks for the input, and I appreciate your candor about the book!
Donnie |
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| I love the first edition and the second addition would be even better to have in the boat as suggested. How about lower printing costs of a regular bound book with a water tight book holder of some sort?
Please email me your presentation by the way  |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | Just sell the one edition for a fair price. I am waiting for the second one to buy it myself. Make the pages removable perhaps so one could just take along the ones they need. Really, anyone that just needs the three or four lures will copy those pages from friends. Myself, along with most(I am sure) want it all. I didn't think I'd find it that helpful, but C.Painter had it along when he fished with me on Green Bay this fall and it was a help no doubt. |
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Posts: 284
Location: Fishing the weeds | I would rather see it in one large volume but, I'll buy it which ever I can get it. I don't troll a whole lot but, this information is invaluable for general knowledge. Keep up the good work. Pat |
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Posts: 85
| I want one for in my boat Please!!! |
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Posts: 786
Location: Minnesota | Actually my first brush with the book was a photo copy from a friend on two baits I wanted info on (No, I did not ask him for the photo copies. I just wanted to see the book to see if I liked it.) Well, I liked it so much I bought both the CD and the book. After that I liked it so much that when I got my own muskie site up I bought more to sell on it. I am not saying others should copy the book to share and get interest up but after I saw the value of the information I knew I needed one for my boat. To add, photo copies are a pathetic item in a boat! lol
My suggestion would be making sure you have good security for the CD version and not a pdf on a disk. As for the book, it stands on its own as it is a top quality waterproof tool. The fact that it is waterproof is a good security measure against the photocopy. You also have to realize that most people are honest and the ones that are not will get around most security measures.
Hope my comments help,
James
PS-Looking forward to the second edition!!!
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Posts: 786
Location: Minnesota | Donnie3737,
You sold 2800 books before.... Did you try selling these in the EU for big pike fishermen? I would suggest finding the top 2-3 sporting goods stores in the EU that sell to that crowd and approaching them to sell the book OR the main online book seller in the EU. I am sure you would sell a lot in the EU as English is the second language. Just a side thought to get your sales up.
Second would be approaching Cabelas or Bass Pro. You may not make much margin but, you would capture your cost of the books back that you didn't sell at full wholesale prices (the other 7200 books). Hell, you may even get those tight BSers to pay full wholesale for it!
James
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Posts: 169
| I plan on buying the new book, but what about selling a .pdf version? No printing cost. |
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Posts: 144
Location: Green Bay, WI | I also plan on buying the new book. PDFs are fine when i'm at my computer but I don't want paper in the boat. I'd gladly pay more for the full and waterproof book even knowing I may never use most of the lures in it. Purchasing info on individual lures doesn't do much for me. I'd rather pay for more info than I need. It may come in handy later.
Edited by bobski 12/12/2006 10:47 PM
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| I agree with Brad. Consider selling it primarily, or additionally, as a PDF file. People can then print and laminate every page and stick it in their boat. I have done this in the past with lake maps and it waterproofs them. |
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| Grunt,
We have gone to both Cabela's and Bass Pro....to try and offset a second printing....getting them to PRE-order. They don't feel it is a big enough segment of fishermen to sell it to. The EU idea I think might be a good one...but it goes back to time for the efforts, to get it done.
Thanks for all the great ideas, and the additional info. We are currently NOT coming out with a second edition. Printing costs and advertising are too expensive at this point.
Donnie
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| We are currently NOT coming out with a second edition. Printing costs and advertising are too expensive at this point.
if that's the case, at a minimum PLEASE sell an electronic version. pdf, excel spreadsheet, whatever...just make it available somehow. you put a lot of time and work into getting the data and it'd be a shame for it to go to waste. personally i think selling individual pages would be ridiculous and too much work for you to be cost effective. sell the entire thing electroncially for a reasonable amount.
i for one would buy it, print it off myself, laminate the pages, and stick it in a binder in the boat.
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Posts: 5874
| Donnie, sorry to ear of your troubles. The concept is great, but as with everything in business, it is supply and demand.
The best advice I can give is to contact Mark Romanck, who publishes the Precision Trolling Guide, or the Bible as the eye guys call it, and see if he would be willing to incorporate your data in his book. Perhaps he'd be willing to purchase your data?
I don't think selling electronic versions will work. They'll be sent around like wildfire, and you won't see much income at all. |
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Posts: 2378
| lambeau - 12/13/2006 8:19 AM
We are currently NOT coming out with a second edition. Printing costs and advertising are too expensive at this point.
if that's the case, at a minimum PLEASE sell an electronic version. pdf, excel spreadsheet, whatever...just make it available somehow. you put a lot of time and work into getting the data and it'd be a shame for it to go to waste. personally i think selling individual pages would be ridiculous and too much work for you to be cost effective. sell the entire thing electroncially for a reasonable amount.
i for one would buy it, print it off myself, laminate the pages, and stick it in a binder in the boat.
I'd pay for it too |
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| Hey Guys,
Thanks for all the advice....I will address these suggestions with Mikey. We'll see if we can't come up with a second edition to sell...without giving it away on the net.
Sincerely,
Humbly,
Donnie |
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Posts: 1086
| lambeau - 12/12/2006 3:02 PM
are there going to be excel spreadsheets all over the internet, rippin' our information??
Can you give me some of your wisdom please?
anyone who owns a copy could post that info just as easily right now.
i don't think it'd be enough of an issue to impact sales.
i'll buy the whole book b/c i like the water-resistant pages for in the boat.
if i wanted info on a couple lures, i'd buy it and so will most people i think.
My thoughts exactly. Well said.
I love the water-resistant pages and it's durability. Once the second edition is available, I too, will buy the entire book. They aren't all that expensive to begin with....at least the first edition wasn't.... |
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Posts: 786
Location: Minnesota | My EU idea for books.
Try contacting a few places to see how hard it woudl be. May only be an email or two to find out if it woudl work or not.
Here is one:
http://www.ebf-eu.org/conferenceKillarney.html
I do like the idea of trying to co-publish with others taht offer similar books. I also bought the trolling book and like it. BUT I bought yours becasue they did not have the big baits used for muskie fishing. Maybe they would add your piece and share the proict. You could still off your electronic data specific to the muskie workd with your second edition book.
JMO,
James |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Have you gone to Kinko's and see what they'd do as far as a short-run? You could do it on a much smaller scale possibly. Maybe not at the margins you'd like, but then again you've already done the work so something is better then nothing.
Also you can contact our printer/MI member and see what she'll do for you. I'll PM you with her info.
-Shawn
BTW, I love the 1st eddition |
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| How about selling some advertising in the book to offset costs? |
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| Mack & Lambeau,
Thanks for the comments! It was well needed, and we appreciate it! The book is awesome, and I am proud to have been part of it. We just need to make it economical for the muskie fisherman, and economical for us.
Guest,
We did sell advertising....if you have the book, you know who "committed to funds" to help offset the printing. I was stupid, and actually believed some of these advertisers, (not all, so please don't bash everyone in there) and expected to get some help....we didn't! This came out of our pocket!
Donnie |
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Posts: 1086
| How about pre-orders? See how many pre-orders you get then go from there? Just a thought..... :shrug: |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I'd pre order now. I tried to get the first edition from Rollies with my last order this fall, and they told me they were waiting for the second one, but that they had alot of people asking about it. Sounds like 'some' demand..?.. Sell a bunch to Musky clubs at a certain rate. Musky clubs could use them for a fund raiser, or raffle deal. You could get a few out there to get the word out, make a few clams, and the clubs could benefit too..?... Just thoughts. I'd vouch for our club buying some for different events. We commonly buy books for raffles/door prizes, etc..
Edited by Reef Hawg 12/13/2006 2:30 PM
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Posts: 2378
| I actually bought 2 copies of the first one. I was dumb and lost the first one, and I bought a new one when I needed it |
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| I too have been waiting for "the second comming" Heck I would buy several as gifts for my muskie hunting buddies, barring they wouldn't knock the next fish off with the net!!! I'll pre-order my share if thats what is needed.
Dean |
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Posts: 786
Location: Minnesota | Donnie3737
I for one would love to get my bait in your book and would pay for the opportunity. With that said, that would be a very slippery slope as I know you guys qualify the baits that make it into your book. You could pre-qualify baits and then ask for a small amount of money from the bait maker(s). To me just having my bait in this book qualifies it as one of the best ads I could get and I for one would pay if one of my baits was good enough to make it in your book. If not, don't tell anyone Just an idea but, you would want to make sure you did it in the right way so your customers would not think your book was just full of crappy lures who paid to be in it.
JMO,
James
PS-50 baits at $100/bait would be $5000. Not sure what 10,000 books cost but I would think that would help..... |
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| Mack & Reef Hawg,
We considered the pre-order idea, but we didn't want to be taking money from folk's, and then not getting enough funds to do it. To underwrite the project, BEFORE advertising, would be about $7,200-7,500. I am currently looking at a smaller scale, and seeing what it would cost to do, say 300. The main issue is simple...300 is as much as 2,000, if we ran a big print job.
Grunt,
The idea is great...but in today's world, too many guys think they have the bait worth billion's and that they don't need to run it in our book, OR pay for it. So, to be honest, we had done this as a service to the muskie industry. I thought it would be a HUGE benefit to the muskie fishing public, and quite honestly, I've had 100's of people send e-mails telling me that! What surprised me though, was not being able to sell individual books at presentations. I was somewhat shocked that guys at the muskie club meeting I was speaking at, wouldn't part with a $20.00. So, Mike said "ENUFF!" I have tried to get him to consider some sort of way we could run the second printing, with all the new baits....he had "hung it up" just a week ago. So, I am struggling to come up with an answer. Thanks for the ideas about the book and paying for your bait to be in there. As was mentioned earlier, I am shocked we got hung out to dry by some of the countries leading manufacturers or fishing equipment.
So, back to the drawing board...we're gonna come up with something!!
Donnie |
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