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| I've read much about different techniques for setting the hook on muskie, but due to my long-established habit of not setting the hook on other species combined with the fact that it is awful hard to describe to young children how to set the hook, neither my kids nor I make any attempt at a hook set, we simply concentrate on not allowing the fish any slack in the line at any point.
We haven't caught tons of fish, but we haven't lost a single muskie yet (4 for 4), and we also land over 70% of other species (except for bluegill) without setting the hook. And with my relative inexperience netting muskies, things got pretty hairy at the boatside last week when my sons' 38" muskies got close. Yet the hooks held and the muskie were landed. The hooks have been in pretty good on all 4 of our muskies.
I've never been a fan of teaching youngsters to set the hook, because it is really tough for an inexperienced angler to maintain proper tension in the line before and after the hook set. It's also dificult to communicate to inexperienced anglers how "hard" to set the hook for a given target species, line type, etc. I also feel that setting the hook only makes the holes bigger which gives the barb a better chace to back out of the line angle changes in an unfavorable way.
I am inviting a couple of young men fishing soon and these guys are probably capable of a decent hook set while maintaining proper line tension if I explain the basic concepts to them. Would I be doing them an injustice if I teach them just to maintain tension, but not to set the hook? We'll probably spend most of the time trolling, if that matters.
There's a tricky balance here, it's not just a matter of the best way to catch a muskie, but rather a matter of the best way to teach a new muskie hunter.
What do y'all think?
Thanks,
Michael Courtney
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| Unsound strategy imo.
I question whether you have only had just 4 musky strikes.
If you have only had 4 musky strikes, I would say your population of musky strikes is not high enough to show you the variabilities in those strikes and the need for at least a minimal hook set. |
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Location: oswego, il | Micheal, I think hook choice has alot to do with how well a musky gets hooked during the strike and a hookset. I know this is a redundant post for some to read but I have had to many fish come off a lure or sucker using those big thick 4x hooks. Does not matter how much you sharpen them either. Compare that to a light wire hook which can in most cases have full hook penetration during the strike, especially trolling which is where I really lurned the hard way this valuable lesson. I find hook selection even more critical than the hokset which is still important. |
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Posts: 227
Location: Southeast Wisconsin | Not teaching your kid to set the hook is like not teaching him to use the brake on a car.IMO The hookset is everything. Sure, keeping a tight line is important too, but nothing good will come from not setting the hook. Even when you get a good hook set and keep a tight line, a lot of times,the second the fish is in the net the lure will pop out of its mouth.
Ben
www.benkueng.com |
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Location: Fishing the weeds | You do what works for you. I'll continue to set it hard! Someday you will too. |
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| firstsixfeet - 7/3/2006 5:23 PM
I question whether you have only had just 4 musky strikes.
We troll exclusively. My kids are too young to cast safely. We may have had some strikes that let go before we got the rod out of the holder. How do you know for sure when you get the rod out of the holder and nothing there? Was it a weed bed, a walleye, a muskie? But it doesn't matter whether or not you decide to set the hook on a fish that is gone by the time you get the rod out of the holder, does it? All four times there was a muskie on when the rod came out of the holder, the muskie was landed successfully.
firstsixfeet - 7/3/2006 5:23 PM
If you have only had 4 musky strikes, I would say your population of musky strikes is not high enough to show you the variabilities in those strikes and the need for at least a minimal hook set.
You're right, it's not a large sample size, but even if we lose the next fish, we still batting 80%. How many relatively new muskie fisherman land 80% of their strikes by setting the hook?
Michael Courtney |
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| Ben Kueng - 7/3/2006 5:48 PM
Not teaching your kid to set the hook is like not teaching him to use the brake on a car.IMO The hookset is everything. Sure, keeping a tight line is important too, but nothing good will come from not setting the hook. Even when you get a good hook set and keep a tight line, a lot of times,the second the fish is in the net the lure will pop out of its mouth.
The lure pops out with a "good hook set" because setting the hook tears a bigger hole for the barb to pop out of when the line goes slack or the angle changes. By not setting the hook, we have had no cases of the lure popping out "the second the fish is in the net." In fact, it took some time to get the hook out in all cases. In my opinion, you only want enough tissue torn to insert the hook just beyond the barb.
"Setting the hook" tears more tissue and makes it easier for the hook to come out, especially with a relatively inexperienced angler who can't keep constant tension or keep a constant angle.
Michael Courtney |
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| ToddM - 7/3/2006 5:26 PM
Micheal, I think hook choice has alot to do with how well a musky gets hooked during the strike and a hookset. I know this is a redundant post for some to read but I have had to many fish come off a lure or sucker using those big thick 4x hooks. Does not matter how much you sharpen them either. Compare that to a light wire hook which can in most cases have full hook penetration during the strike, especially trolling which is where I really lurned the hard way this valuable lesson. I find hook selection even more critical than the hokset which is still important.
I think you may be on to something here. On 75% of out muskies, we were using lures with 1/0 treble hooks, which are about the smallest you'll fine on lures used for muskie. |
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| Are they sharp hooks?
HAHHAHAHAHAHHA!
I''ve never set the hook trolling either. good post. |
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | Hi Michael,
Your observations are interesting. I have never thought about "not setting the hook" since I have done so as long as I have fished. But, if the hooks are "really sharp" and one keeps tension on the fish I have no doubt you could land a good many of them. This would be particularly true if you are trolling since the forward momentum of the boat essentially "sets the hook" for you.
I still think tho that overall you will land a greater number of fish by setting the hook one time when the fish takes and then maintaining tension from that point thereafter. Your comment about the hook set causing a tear in the fishes mouth allowing the barb to get free may be true on some occassions. However, there would be an equal or greater number of times in which the hook point had failed to penetrate to the barb in the absence of a hook set. In these cases "setting of the hook" would be to the anglers advantage.
Finally, think about this, if I hand you a treble hook at the end of 60 feet of line and have you close your hand around it and then I just start reeling...do you think you could shake your hand loose? You might be able to. Now, suppose we do this same thing and I set the hook first, then start reeling, I'm willing to bet you will find it far more difficult to shake the hook under these circumstances.
kind regards,
jed v.
bikini bait co. |
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Location: oswego, il | Micheal, the 1/0 hook is relative to the size of the bait you are using. If you are using a 6" ernie or a bagley monster shad, a 1/0 hook is ok. I like the mustad short shank round bends for those baits. They are a light wire. The standard 4x j-hook that comes on an ernie just does not hook up well and I have had issues catching fish with those style hooks while trolling. |
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| Take the hooks off your favorite bait.... Run 30 feet of line out and have your buddy hold onto it tight. Set the hook big man... You'll rip his arm off right?
hahahhaha Actually test this with your wife holding it then bet your big strong manly buddy a drink he can't rip it from your hand...much less move your arm much....
Free drinks... what could be better?
I think you are onto something versus being on something Mike...
Edited by Steve Cady 7/4/2006 12:58 AM
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| You will be surprised how little pressure you are able to exert when you strike due to your rods spring like effect, using braid and sharp hooks with a thinner gauge wire are the key to successful hookups.
Fish hook themselves when trolling if your set up is right, and when using suckers I think its better to take up the slack line as you get a take then lean hard into the fish rather than slam the rod upwards. |
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| RiverMan - 7/3/2006 11:43 PM
I still think tho that overall you will land a greater number of fish by setting the hook one time when the fish takes and then maintaining tension from that point thereafter.
I think you are probably right, but this requires an angler with enough experience to maintain tension throughout the hook setting process. It's all I can do right now for my kids (ages 5, 6, 7, and 10) to keep constant tension while reeling in. If they were to start imitating me setting the hook, I think there would be significant slack either before or after the hook set.
RiverMan - 7/3/2006 11:43 PM
Finally, think about this, if I hand you a treble hook at the end of 60 feet of line and have you close your hand around it and then I just start reeling...do you think you could shake your hand loose? You might be able to. Now, suppose we do this same thing and I set the hook first, then start reeling, I'm willing to bet you will find it far more difficult to shake the hook under these circumstances.
Interesting way to look at it. However, I wonder how close your analogy is to what really happens when a fish hits a lure being trolled along at 3 MPH. I think that fish close their mouths with a lot more force than most fishermen handle fishing lures. I also think that most fish turn after hitting a lure and the forward momentum of the boat exerts a pretty good force trying to heep the fish moving forward at the trolling speed.
So I think a more appropriate analogy might be for a man to grab a lure as hard as he can and turn and run in another direction and then get jerked back around by the non-stretch fising line tied to the lure.
Michael Courtney |
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Location: WI | Mark this one on your calender because for once I agree with Steve. Having done the hooksetting test I can say he is right. Since then and because of that I have kept the home run casts to a minimum.
Todd is also right on, I have lost more fish to the 4x hooks than I care to think about. Sharp, thin wire hooks are definatly the way to go. Just learn to work the drag properly and they wont bend out on you. |
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Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Trolling, no, don't set the hook in most cases. I know some Charter Captains who get REALLY upset if the client trys to hammer the hooks home on a trolling hook up. Casting, on the other hand, requires a hookset IMHO. Even those who know and understand how a fishing rod builds and releases energy won't be able to put out more than a couple pounds, and with the big baits, big hooks, and all the stuff the Muskie can get her teeth clamped down upon, it's my belief that if you don't set the hook at least one time you will lose better than 50% of the fish you talk into eating your lure.
I can put out about 6 pounds on a hookset with a spinning rod, and about 2/3 that with a casting rod because of the physics and dynamics of the way a spinning rod and casting rod are held. Mr. Cady is correct, I did exactly what he suggested in seminars for years and never once had that lure taken from my hand until superlines were invented. No stretch means more energy trnasfer from the rod blank to the lure, so one CAN set the hook too much/too hard with the new lines. One good pop should do it, and if you feel the bait slipping in the fishes teeth (feels like 'static' sounds in the rod) set her again.
I fish jigs alot, and can tell you for sure if you don't set the hook on a muskie using that technique, you won't net many. |
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Location: oswego, il | Micheal, one other thing that I think has only lightly been touched on with the trolling subject. Drag setting is critical too. I set my drag to have enough tension so that line does not peel off the spool while trolling. If it is craned down tight, you will be ripping the biats right from their mouth on the strike. |
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Location: Oregon | Michael Courtney - 7/4/2006 7:28 AM
I think you are probably right, but this requires an angler with enough experience to maintain tension throughout the hook setting process. It's all I can do right now for my kids (ages 5, 6, 7, and 10) to keep constant tension while reeling in. If they were to start imitating me setting the hook, I think there would be significant slack either before or after the hook set.
Hey if it is working for you Michael then stick with it. My sons are 16 and 19 now and both learned to fish on carp, bluegill, and tiny bass. I started them "setting the hook" right away but to be honest they would often just "reel them in" as youngsters, lol.
Michael Courtney - 7/4/2006 7:28 AM
Interesting way to look at it. However, I wonder how close your analogy is to what really happens when a fish hits a lure being trolled along at 3 MPH. I think that fish close their mouths with a lot more force than most fishermen handle fishing lures. I also think that most fish turn after hitting a lure and the forward momentum of the boat exerts a pretty good force trying to heep the fish moving forward at the trolling speed.
As I said above.....if trolling it's probably not necessary.
Michael Courtney - 7/4/2006 7:28 AM
So I think a more appropriate analogy might be for a man to grab a lure as hard as he can and turn and run in another direction and then get jerked back around by the non-stretch fising line tied to the lure.
I would agree entirely with you here Michael but keep in mind there will be a certain percentage of fish that pick up the bait and swim directly toward you...particularly when casting.
Cheers!
Jed V.
Edited by RiverMan 7/4/2006 11:41 AM
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Location: IN | I don't think any one method is 100% absolute. I would take a venture to say that most guys do whatever "feels good" at the time. I probably have several different ways of reacting to a strike and setting the hook. I really couldn't tell you because i've always gone on my natural reaction without really thinking about it. It works well for me. I think alot of times we lose fish because we are setting hooks when the fish is trying to shake the lure and it's mouth is wide open. Maybe it's not so much of how to set the hooks, but when. |
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| ToddM - 7/4/2006 11:14 AM
Micheal, one other thing that I think has only lightly been touched on with the trolling subject. Drag setting is critical too. I set my drag to have enough tension so that line does not peel off the spool while trolling. If it is craned down tight, you will be ripping the biats right from their mouth on the strike.
Great point. I keep my drags pretty light when trolling. If I speed up from 2-3 MPH, I often need to tighten down the drags because the increase in line tension that comes with increasing speed.
Michael Courtney |
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| Jed pointed out:
I would agree entirely with you here Michael but keep in mind there will be a certain percentage of fish that pick up the bait and swim directly toward you...particularly when casting.
Good point, this situation seems to require a hook set. When casting I'd probably be aware that this is happening because of the change in feel while reeling in. However, if a fish takes the lure and swims toward the boat while trolling, I'd probably be unaware of it for several seconds at least until the fish turns and the reel starts to click. With the bursitis in my shoulder, I may never be much of a caster. I can cast for an hour or so sometimes while the kids take a break from trolling and fish for crappie or blugill, but the shoulder might not ever be up for 4-8 hours a day of casting.
Michael Courtney |
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Location: Holly, MI | No hookset here when trolling Lake St Clair. The fish "crush" the bait and turn hard away from the 4-5 mph boat. I absolutly agree about hooksets tearing the holes larger and giving the fish a chance to throw the hook easier. I have also been out with charter captains who insist on no-hookset while trolling. Razor sharp hooks pay off! |
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| never ever set hooks when trolling at 4-6mph the fish does it all if you own a hook file |
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| Nice Post!
I have to take exception to Dave G though and his sucker hookset strategy. Worst piece of logic I have ever heard. The hooks are attached to the sucker in a way as to break freee, at least with a quickset rig, and must be hammered as hard as possible to break them free from the sucker and slam them into the mouth of the muskie. The hardest hookset I ever made was on a 50.5" muskie I caught last fall on a sucker. The hook ended up through the middle of the top of its' mouth. Would that have happened if I would have just casually leaned back? NO WAY!!!!!!Go ahead and just lean on a fish that grabs a sucker and they will spit it every single time. |
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Location: oswego, il | DJS, if you read DaveG's post carefully he is talking about thin wire hooks. I don't want to assume if you use store bought rigs or make your own but the store bought rigs have big 4x hooks on them. I make my own rigs and use 1/0-3/0 short shank mustad round bend hooks(again sorry for this redunduancy about hook preference) and I don't have to do one of these massive hooksets and my hookups are very good. Getting overtop the fish or making sure it is swimming away is very important which most everybody knows. If I had a single 4x 5/0 hook does not matter how sparp, you gotta knock your hat off on the hookset. Sucker size can be important too, I use suckers up to 16" and that can dictate some on the hookset as well.
Edited by ToddM 7/4/2006 9:32 PM
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| Trolling, hooks set themselves
Casting, firm hook set just making sure the musky is hooked properly
Sucker fishing or soft plastics, full body hook set sometimes more than once if you feel the musky is not properly hooked the first time |
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| I can't believe anyone would set the hooks when trolling, just like I can't believe anyone would not set the hooks when casting. You guys really pull the rod out of the rod holder and give 'er a rip? That's a terrible idea, in my opinion. Set the drag light so that it a firm pull on the line (from the end of the rod) will take drag. When a fish hits, just reel 'em in. Seems to me like Michael Courtney is doing it just right so far as trolling is concerned.
Seriously, some people set the hook when trolling???????? With or without rod holders? With rod holders, how the heck does that even work? Equivelant is setting the hook half-way through fighting a fish! Good grief. |
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| quick question for you trollers, do you prefer mono or super lines, and what # test? |
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Posts: 20212
Location: oswego, il | You will get two answers on this. I use graphite pucktail rods for trolling. I use mono and flourocarbon line 20-30lb test. Mono is big game line. I like the graphite rods because they show me really well if a lure is running well by the vibration in the rod tip. Another reason i use mono is because I use planer boards. I usse the church tackle boards and the releases have a silicon coating whixh superlines would wear out quickly.
Other people use braided line. many of them use braided on fiberglass rods which are more forgiving. |
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