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Posts: 336
Location: Lino Lakes, MN | Just looking for some quick advice if anyone can help out. Ive been using laquer based paints on everything to this point and I am looking to make the switch over to water based paints. Just wondering if there is anything that I need to look out for while making the switch. Is the curing time the same? Will the clear coat do any damage to the paint? Just any general advice that you guys can give would be appreciated. There are some colors that I cant find in water based paints so Ill have those wait till it gets warm enough to paint outside. Now I can paint inside without having to worry about blowing the house up.  Also wont have to worry about the damage to the lungs. Thanks a lot.
Eric |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | Createx sucks. They're tougher to control and don't cover worth squat. They do have some cool colors, especially their fluoresents, pearlesants (sp?) and metalics, but don't expect to get cute with them.
I'm trying to convert over to Testers where I can. The white will cover over anything and you can really get some great detail work with them. The only problem is that it's expensive as hell. You get what you pay for.
I'm getting better with every new batch I do so someone may have a trick to them, but I've been pounding my head against the wall with them for years and have had enough. I just came up from the basement painting 2 minutes before this post so if you see some frustrations in this post you know why LOL!!! |
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Posts: 351
| Hi guys. I'm new. been lurking for some time, but I was also wondering about Createx paint.
I use enamels, but it seems like so many guys use createx.
Does it occasionally dry up in the airbrush?
What other advantages (besides easy clean up) and disadvantages does it have? |
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Posts: 336
Location: Lino Lakes, MN | Well I just got up from spraying a bunch in the basement. Seems like its gonna take some getting used to. I would much rather paint with the laquers, but with having a pretty small basement and no real ventilation system I pretty much need to make the switch. The paint was spraying alright, but the coverage and dry times are whats gonna throw me off. Treats.....you had any luck with mixing paints to tone down some of the lighter colors or darken the lights? Ill be back at it in the morning...hopefully with better results.
Eric |
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Posts: 4266
| Now you understand why I only painted during certain times of the year, and now finally bit the bullet and built myself a painting studio in my garage. Heated, ventilated, humidity controlled.
I tried waterbased for about an hour and gave the remaining paint away.
Give me automotive paints anytime. Fast drying time. Thins to water consistency and still covers light over dark in one coat. Dries hard as a rock, which is an overlooked atribute I believe.
I can't paint in the house, but in a week or so I'll be able to paint outside year-round.
Beav |
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Posts: 336
Location: Lino Lakes, MN | Thanks for the replies guys. Im gonna give it some more time and see what I can do with the Createx before I make a decision either way. Im just struggling because the blending is completely different than it was with the laquers. The drying time is also completely different. Ill report back after I get some more time in with the brush. Thanks again.
Eric |
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | I haven't sprayedauto paints because of the concern with breathing them. I only use Createx. My main concern is my health and I don't want to sit around with an auto painters mask on for hours at a time while painting, just not worth it to me. Yes Createx is a pain to spray, it clogs at the tip alot, it covers poorly, particularly the light colors like white and yellow but it's safe. I spray baits in my living room with a towel over the kitchen table while my sons are a few feet from me watching TV.
Jed V.
Edited by RiverMan 2/25/2006 6:17 PM
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | I use the createx and here are a few tips. Heat lamps help with drying (needs to be warm), each color paints different (some need thining, some do not ) and temp. sensitive. With some colors do not try and put it on thick( transparents are the worst and flouresents are 2nd), a few light passes are better (most of the time there is no waiting in between passes). Use there primer, it sticks better (I use the light one, not to hard to cover). Paint from light to dark for best coverage. You need to change the PSI for the different colors sometimes. Createx does not do sharp lines well, if you need that try Testors like Treats said. When DRY most waterbased paints (a lot of factory automotive base coat, clear coat paints are waterbased) are harder than oil based but are thinner and coat well with most clears. Eric, if I remember right you use a epoxy coat and it works fine. I wait 24 hours before coating so it is dry (heating speeds it up, and heat lamps can cure it harder also) or the epoxy does not bond as good to it. I also aggree with Jed on the clogging. Run cleaner through once and a while and it helps. This is what works for me, hope it helps. I have more tips but I can not give away all my secrets LOL.
Edited by h2os2t 2/25/2006 6:49 PM
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Posts: 4266
| Never had a problem with the paints that I use. I wear a mask and make sure that there is adequate ventilation.
The great thing about them is the consistency, great coverage without multiple coats and fast drying. I don't need warmers or lights or anything like that.
I'd have health concerns if I was using them in an enclosed area without ventilation or a mask. You should wear a mask even if you use water based paints, unless you like rainbow boogers. I don't care what you spray, some of it makes it into the air that you breathe. We all are more at risk from the fumes of melting lead or even touching lead.
You guys that like water-based paints, I'm glad that you like them and that there are new and better ones every year. I just have never found any that were worth the extra time and effort that it takes to get them to cover in one coat and dry fast without outside assisstance.
Beav |
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| Beaver - 2/25/2006 8:38 PM I don't care what you spray, some of it makes it into the air that you breathe. Beav
Nothing like having color-shifting kleenex after blowing your nose!
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | The amount of drying time for water based paints isn't really even a consideration for me. I spray on one part of the lure, set aside and grab the next. By the time I get back back to the first after a color change which is usually just a couple minutes it's dry and ready to go. If I am painting just one bait which I seldom do, I will use a hair dryer to speed things up between coats. The biggest draw-back by far that I see is not drying time but clogs...water based paints clog and can be a hassle to spray.
Jed V. |
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Posts: 1207
Location: Pigeon Forge TN. | What Beav said goes Ditto for me.
And I have tried most everything out there.
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Posts: 910
Location: Hastings, mn, 55033 | is there less hassle when switching colors with water based paints?
i have also been told that clean up is MUCH easier with water based, that you can just spray some windex through to clean it out, is that true?
are the createx auto air colors water based or laquer, enamel or something else?
i am in the same position as some of the others here, must paint in a small area with little or no ventilation, and just trying to figure out what to try. i have been told by a friend whose opinion i trust and whose quality speaks for itself that createx is hands down the best. then i see stuff like this where others just HATE the stuff. hard to know what to do!
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | Hey Stan, I tried your link a few times and couldn't get it to work.
Don't use Auto-Air if you are using Etex, they interact with one another causing the finish to blister. Use regular Createx colors. I paint in the kitchen just a few feet from the sink. Between colors I take off the bottle and run HOT water down through the brush for 10 seconds or so then go to the next color. About every three color changes I use a bottle with windex in it to provide some additional cleaning.
The water based paints can be a hassle for sure but again they are much safer to use. I have no doubt that auto paints cover better but require ventilation and a mask, it's all personal choice. I also like being able to clean up between color changes with water. And, if I make a mistake on a bait I simply go over to the sink, rinse off the paint, and start over.
jed v.
bikini bait company
Edited by RiverMan 2/26/2006 11:55 AM
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | I aggree with Stan and Beaver on the covering and drying part. Also some of the colors that they use are just not very good in waterbased, like the color changing stuff. I do have a ventilation fan where I paint and lead. I also wear a mask that works for lead and one for paint if I do a lot of painting and the fans can't keep up. I do not like the multicolored Kleenex much either. If I did this full time I would consider using oil based paints, someday I would like to be as good as Stan which would be hard to do. Beaver, I have not seen any of your work but the pics look great also (pictures just are not the same). Beaver,you ever build that drying rack? I learned with waterbased and figured out how to deal with the drawbacks. Which for me beats the thinners and fumes. |
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| I have a limited amount of experience with both water-based and auto paints. It seems to me like all the above comments are accurate, but for the casual/hobby painter it just makes more sense to use water-based paint. I can understand commercial (i.e. high volume) painters justifying the use of laquer paints, but not a hobby or even a "basement bait co." guy.
I hate using anything but water based paint in my airbrush because it's such a pain in terms of ventilation and cleaning. Createx does everything I need it to do. My only concern is long-term duarbility, but since I'm painting them for myself that's really not too big a deal . I use a heat gun to set the paint and it seems like a few coats of spray can clearcoat will work just great.
By the way, I have had great luck so far on plastic baits using spray can plastic primer (rustoleum) and clear coat (also rustoleum). I just got a few cans of the envirotex spray and it looks to be pretty good on the few baits I've put it on. I spray the cans outside and hang inside with a fan in my utility room ... it's a great system for me. I'm in the process of building a portable spray booth using plywood and a bathroom fan (total cost <$50), and I'm pretty sure it's going to rock.
John |
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| I have a box full of Createx, Palmer and other water-based paints in my basement.
I thought that I gave it all away, but I found more.
Anybody interested? I have pearls and metallics.......interested parties e-mail me at [email protected]
Maybe we can work out a swap for what I have.
Beav |
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | John,
You shouldn't have a concern with the durability of Createx over any other paint. With all lures, the paint is only as good as the clear-coat protecting it. Once the water gets in it's over regarless of the paint used.
jed v.
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Posts: 120
| HI
A few tips for Createx and Auto Air.
You need to heat set these paints. Air dry will not cure them. I use a heat gun i'm sure a hair dryer will work.
Reducers are available for these paints. you will need it for some paints and not for others this will help a ton.
Mix the paint Just shaking the bottle wont cut it. these paint really settle. I use some thin sticks to stur up the paint from the bottom. and then shake the sh!$ out of it.
also on clean up i do the standard spray through cleaner/water while im working. But when finished I take apart all the paint flow parts and soak them in water. the left over paint won't dry and it will break up. the parts are superclean for the next use. Havent tried the windex
Practice I have seen some great work with these products so it can be done.
Keith
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Posts: 364
Location: Kentucky | Where can I get the spray cans of EnviroTex? |
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| Keith, what kind/brand of clearcoat do you use over createx on plastic baits like Jakes and Jerkos? They're different kinds of plastic, but I assume the same finish works for either? I think you've said some kind of automotive sealer in the past, but can you recommend a few that work well and mention a few that don't? Spray can stuff seems to work well (Jed V. recommended it, too) so far...
Oh, and how about primer on plastic baits? Yes, I'm trying to get all the secrets to a good looking, durable finish.
Also, for the other guy: I got envirotex spray over the internet: http://store.creative-wholesale.com/Home/tabid/118/CategoryID/20/Li... I got about 10 baits (plastic baits) out of one can and the finish seems a little thicker/harder than the rustoleum spray clearcoat. ~3 coats, a few minutes apart put a good finish on plastic baits with either product, but I haven't tried the envirotex spray yet for durability. Still, it looks to be good stuff.
John |
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Posts: 1207
Location: Pigeon Forge TN. | Riverman,
My link isn't working as the site is down for repair and updating but you can always reach me at my email.
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| riverman -
you seem hell-bent on diverting auto-air users away from e-tex...i use both, together, with no problems.... you just have to be sure you have a clean surface before applying the e-tex.
what version of e-tex did you have problems with when using auto air?
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Posts: 1207
Location: Pigeon Forge TN. | John23,
If you want to keep it cheap and simple with your spray booth. Try soletex aluminum backed foam insulation board. You cut it with a knife, tape it together , run a bead of 99 cent caulking compound along the seams and your good to go. Holds up well and is fast and easy to replace when need be. It's lighter and cheaper than plywood. |
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| Thanks for the advice, Stan! I had enough plywood lying around for the fan box below the grate, but I think will take your advice for the hood. Sounds like a great idea. |
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Posts: 120
| John23
The plastic material used for the" lure" has nothing to do with the clear used.
I use an automotive clear cote. Bought in volume and it expensive, really to expensive for Hobby work. But any quality urethane automotive clear will work. A filterd ventalition system is a must for this!
I was never really worried about the durability of the clear as long as it held to the paint. The durability comes from the lures being plastic, if the finish gets chewed to the bone you don’t have to worry about it soaking water expanding and splitting the finish. On wood enviro is used to help prevent hooks or teeth from getting down to the wood. So the durability of the clear is very important. When the "Seal" is broken on a wood lure it’s on its way to splitting/cracking. In my opinion enviro clears are unnessary on plastic lures and add alot of extra weight.
Another note on Clears. I am using all 2 stage Paints. What that means is these paints are designed to be cleared (auto air and I think Createx are 2 stage paints) the paints themselves are not durable. Most paints from the can are single stage paints, they are made with added durability so clears are not necessary to "finish". In fact even the best clears will sometimes have trouble holding on to single stage paints.
Most primers will work on plastic. I have tried "plastic primers" and I really didn’t see a difference to warrant the cost. The"secret" is in the prep work. This means cleaning blanks with a good wax and grease remover or mold release cleaner. Plus scuff or sand the surface so the primer has something grab.
This is where you should be spending the time developing.
Have fun and practice.
Keith
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | Anyone found a good source for testors acrylics?
Jed V.
Edited by RiverMan 3/17/2006 10:00 PM
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Posts: 1438
| Keith
The "plastic primers" you mentioned are for automotive use. They use them on the flexible plastic parts in the car, usually the front and rear bumpers and or body mouldings. The primers flex and do not crack like a hard coat primer. You can tell when someone had their car repainted by someone who didn't use the proper primer. Just look for the telltale spiderweb on the bumper.
As for using that plastic primer on a bait??? I agree with you. I don't think there's as advantage to it on a hard plastic bait. Stick with what you've been doing. It looks great.
Scott
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Posts: 1207
Location: Pigeon Forge TN. | For those of you whom like the water based paints, Lacquer comes in both, solvent based AND water based. But Beav and I use the solvent based for many reasons.
Keith is right about the Automotive two Part clears, They are UV resistant and hold up to the outside elements very well,but always make sure you have proper ventilation and wearing a mask isn't that bad.
Edited by Stan Durst 1 3/18/2006 2:06 PM
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