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Posts: 1938
Location: Black Creek, WI | I love to target open-water fish suspended out over the deep mainlake basin. Despite my success with this "pattern" I seem to be in a rut with my presentation and limit myself to crankbaits 98% of the time. My good friend TR lost one of the biggest fish he's ever encountered on a Jackpot in 90+ feet of water, I've heard of tournaments being won in Indiana and MN fishing Jackpots over deep water, and common sense tells me that when fish are up high in the water column other lures/presentations SHOULD be just as effective as my favorite crankbaits. But, I just can't argue with the old adage of "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" and therefore stick with crankbaits.
So, I'd like to hear some testimonials for other types of presentations/lures that have been effective in open water to help me overcome my close-mindedness towards presentation while probing the abyss. Also, any theories as to why the "other" stuff works would be of interest. Thanks for your help.
jlong |
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Posts: 1769
Location: Algonquin, ILL | A few years back when my now son inlaw first started fishing with me he came along with my son and I on what is to be his first Muskie trip to the north woods, after launching the boat I motored out to open water ( 65ft ) just to make sure he knows how to use the equipment and make a few practice casts with a Top Raider on about his third cast he starts yelling "GOT ONE GOT ONE" after a short but fierce battle I netted his first Muskie ever a fat 44 incher. This fish hit a Top Raider over 65Ft of water, I searched the entire area to see if there was a school of baitfish near by and found a huge school, we fished the school as if it were structure and boated a second fish a 38 incher and raised two more in the low - mid 40's all on surface baits
so go ahead toss that jackpot you just never know
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Posts: 7101
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | 42.5 with Boro over 45ft of water, water temps at 49 degrees. Shads popping everywhere, jakes, jerks, cranks all a no-go. I throw Crunch-N-Munch (hall of fame Jackpot) at the shad pops, and BOOM one hit and a miss....a few casts later the 42.5 inhales it. Not the biggest of fish, but it was cool to smack one over that much water.....and I've seen it other times, just not that automatic. |
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Posts: 440
| Not a Jackpot pattern but late last fall we had some luck with open water fishing. The shad were stacked in the middle of a creek channel 18' to 25' of water. No cover other than the creek ledges. A Slammer Drop Belly and Shallow Invader both took fish. The Drop Belly was fished fast and the Shallow Invader did not get out of site. Those fish were coming up and just smoking the baits. I realize the Cisco pattern on those super deep trout lakes may be a little different but similar situations. Hope to get a similar situation this spring and summer so I can test out the Jackpot thing myself. |
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Posts: 1046
| SHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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Posts: 333
Location: menasha wi 54952 | I agree...........SSHHHHHHHhhhhhh..... |
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Location: Illinois-Indiana | All I know is that you CAN'T, AND I REPEAT, YOU CAN'T CATCH FISH ON A JACKPOT OVER DEEP WATER, NO MATTER WHAT THE CONDITIONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  |
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Posts: 259
Location: Alexandria, MN | Well put Ralph! All those others trying to lead the poor guy astray. They would have him out there casting a
Jackpot in the middle of the lake, looking like a fool -- and getting in my way!
Stay close to shore, there are no fish in open water.
Steve |
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Posts: 459
Location: New Baden IL | How do you go about finding these suspended fish to start out with???
If you are motoring around looking for schools of baitfish, wont you break them up and ruin the pattern you are trying to find?
Thanks,
Rodney LaCaze |
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Posts: 714
Location: Rhinelander, WI | Jason,
Lets be honest you throw crankbaits 98% of the time NO MATTER WHAT STRUCTURE YOU ARE FISHING! Why? Because you catch fish on crankbaits. The only suggestion I would make is to ensure you, or we, are always exploring vertically while fishing that open water. I think we miss some fish because we are fishing under them. Just because the fish are over 65’ of water doesn’t mean they are 20’ down. I think the people catching fish on surface baits over open water are taking advantage of those fish that are only a couple feet down, just cruising.
That being said you don’t often here people talking about bucktails over open water. I hear much more about open water surface bait action. What’s up with that? Is the speed of the retrieve just two fast? If it is, why? My guess is that open water feeders are more stalkers as apposed to ambush feeders. I think bucktails are best at provoking ambush type strikes. Any thoughts on this?
Nail A Pig!
Mike
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Posts: 1938
Location: Black Creek, WI | Good point Mike. And I confess... I have an obsession with crankbaits, that's for sure.
As for the bucktail topic, that is interesting indeed. One tactic I plan to experiment with in 2004 is using the new Mepps Marabou out in open water. If you didn't notice, that tail can be worked super super slow and still stay only a foot or two below the surface. If the traditional faster speed of bucktails is why they MAY not be as effective out over deep open water, then why wouldn't this work? Is erratic action a necessity out there and if so, why?
In my opinion, topwater should be best earlier in the season when the thermocline is the highest, shallow cover is limited, and those fish are just cruising around in the middle of nowhere.... but only a foot or two below the surface. I'm just looking to add some confidence to that presentation so I can stick with it long enough to get bit. My Jackpots usually only get about 10 minutes of playing time to produce some action before I put my All-Star player, the crankbait, back in again.
jlong |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Mike,
It is my belief that suspended fish are best enitced to eat with an erratic presentation. That being said, I think that is why you don't hear much about bucktails for suspended fish. I have thrown them some for those suspendos, but not much luck yet. I intend to do it a little more this year. I just don't know if the bucktail has the long range fish calling capabilities that a crank has for open water fish.
Shhhhhhhhhhh about the marabous over deep water! |
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Posts: 1769
Location: Algonquin, ILL | jlong, if you insist on using cranks for the suspenders try using them more like a jerk or twitch bait at times this can be deadly I have gotten a few nice fish by casting a depth raider and cranking it to get it deep then pause for a second or two to let the bait rise then crank it or jerk it back down ususally the hit will come as you crank or jerk the bait.
Don't give up they are out there
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Location: Illinois-Indiana | I think the main reason you don't hear about more people catching fish on bucktails over open water is too many people don't really use them in open water. I think the bucktail gets stuck in a catagory that most people only use them in and over weeds. |
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| I fished for suspeneded muskies for the first time last year with no luck. I may have made the mistake of going too deep as well. I just do not have any confidence in it yet! I know I need to stick with it or even get a follow or strike to build confidence in it. It does feel weird being out in the middle of nowhere sometimes. Any other pointers would be great. I know to fish near the baitfish like structure. Is it better in the spring? Summer? Fall? Day? Night? What baits? JCranks? Jerks? Suicks? Any other good suggestions? I mainly fish the Hayward area. Thanks in advance, Tom |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | Tom, in general June and July are my best months for suspended fish. That does not mean yuo can't have good success any other month. Last year I caught them suspended right to ice up.
A few words of advice.
1)Fish erratically!
2)Don't always look for baitfish to fish around!
3)Don't expect to see a ton of fish - suspended fish tend to eat, and if they don't they don't follow a whole lot.
4) Any bait goes for suspended fish! I personally prefer cranks, but all types work.
5) Don't fish too deep! Try keeping your bait 10' or shallower. Keep it 4' or shallower in early season.
6) Prism!!!
7) Work slowly!
Hope this helps. In the very near future I will have a suspended fishing section with info actually in it on my website.
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| I read the book by Rizzo "The Summer Muskie" and I think he said he has got most of his suspended fish
with weighted buctails. I think he said he just weights them and lets them sink a bit before reeling. I think
he said to use long casts and reel a bit slower.
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Posts: 87
Location: Wauwatosa, WI | I've been going suspendo for the last two years and have had great luck on weighted bucktails and one of my favorites "fuzzy duzzit". Vertical jigging on windward side of humps, but deep(30-40'). I had my best result last November when the reels would freeze up when casting(five fish over 40" in 3 days). Also it's a good change up when your arms are tired from casting. The weighed bucktails when the boat traffic dies down at dusk.
Bob Ryan
I also love my crankbaits!! |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | I've been fishing suspended muskies for two years now. Two years ago I had pretty good success. Last year I kind of struggled. So either I got lucky my first year. Or the pattern that I established two years ago just wasn't going last year when I tried it.
A lot of people are mentioning slower speeds and/or very erratic action. My secret two years ago was neither of these. It was speed. I was trolling from about 4 to 7 mph over 25 to 100 feet of water. When I would drop below 4 mph, not much would happen. So speed really seemed to be a key. Although last year I had NOTHING happen when going that fast. What little action I did have was at slower speeds.
So what are people's opinions on speed trolling the open water? Great way to cover a lot of water, that much I know.
AWH |
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| I'm not trying to start anything here, but I have a question.
Are you releasing these caught fish over the open water or bringing them to a shallower depth before letting them go?
Brett Waldera |
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Posts: 1243
Location: Musky Tackle Online, MN | Brett brings up a good question. I haven't caught a lot of open water fish. But the ones I have caught have been released in probably 20 feet of water or less. Should we be bringing these fish in for shallow water releases?
Come to think of it, I've probably released a fair amount of fish over fairly deep water that have been caught shallow because of just drifting off the breaks while fighting and landing the fish. More concerned about just getting the fish back in the water, I haven't always taken the time to make sure I was in shallower water. Only if a fish has appeared to struggle a bit will I bring the boat in shallow for a release.
For these fish that are released in deeper water though, if they're very lively and take off right away, can there be any negative effects on the fish?
AWH |
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Posts: 544
Location: Alsip, Il | Very good questions? What do you guys say? Al |
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Posts: 1906
Location: Oconto Falls, WI | I release my fish over deep water, and feel the fish are just fine by doing so. It may be different if the fish were very tired and distressed, but most fish take off in a very short time. Why bring a fish to shallow water if it spends its whole life deep? If the fish can survive coming to the surface to feed on ciscos and such, it can survive a 2 mintue battle with me and my clients. My lure is usually only 10-15' down max, so I don't have to worry about the fish having to equalize or anything.
The problem I can see with going shallow is the extra stress the fish could see that wouldn't happen if it was released where it was caught. At times I may have to travel a good distance to get to shallow water. Putting a fish in a livewell adds stress. Motoring shallow with the fish in the net is not a good practice! If you go fast enough the fish could die by drowning.
At times a fish may not swim down right away. If this happens I will stay very close to the fish until it swims down to make sure no pleasure crafts or boaters hit it. |
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Posts: 356
Location: In the slop! | The concern, I believe, is that a tired fish, released over deep water, will go to the bottom. If there is no oxegen, or very low, the fish will die. |
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| After fishing for Sailfish and Baracuda over 1500' of water the day before yesterday pulling dead Leezars(big shad/cisco looking things about 13" long) on the surface, and watching the follows and subsequent eruptions that occur, I plan to experiment much more with muskies at mid day with the same type of presentation(surface).
Jason Schillinger |
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Posts: 32950
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I have caught numerous big fish with topwater over open, deep water. Usually that pattern for me is casting OUT from the breakline boat position (15' casting to as much as 50')while everyone else is casting IN. I don't target suspended open water fish as much as I should,. but always give the deep it's due when on sharp breaks and in the boat with a couple other anglers. |
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Posts: 2061
Location: Belgium | all the fish that I took on giant jackpots, have been caught over deep water, casting from the shore. Usually they skyrocketed with the bait cross-wise in their mouth. Cool sight! I think, not sure though, that most strike occured when the bait moved over in shallower water when it crossed the drop-off from deep to shallow water. When fishing from a boat, you might expect the reverse situation |
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| Super Topraiders and Giant Jackpots are great open water baits working pods of bait fish or goofy current breaks!
Steve |
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