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Posts: 73
Location: Hazard KY | In This months Esox Angler a letter to the editor Stated that Danny Kurtila a writer talked to One of Kentuckys Biologist who said that the new 40" limit would ruin KY's muskie Fisheries. It doesn't give the Biologist name. His name is Lew Corman and he is against any limit changes on muskies he wants it to be 2 fish 30"s forever. Buckhorn does have a new biologist from IL Named Kevin Frye Who loves muskies and wants to make KY a real muskie fishery, but lew is In the way. You can write to KY's fisheries Department Chair and Explain why muskies need to be protected and not eaten.
Write to :
Kentucky Dept. Fish and Wildlife
Att. Tom Bennett
1 Gamefarm Road
Frankfort KY 40601-9986
Everbody that fishes KY letters counts this would help the limit possibly go state wide and discuss your opinion about Mr. Corman.
Thanks Chris
Edited by Chris Haley 9/21/2003 8:56 PM
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Posts: 20281
Location: oswego, il | You are not alone. I was fishing yesterday and before we went to lunch got a nice 42"er that was 20+lbs. We ate lunch at the restuarant on the lake and the owner asked how we did. I told him and he asked if I kept the fish. I said no and he said why. I said I want to catch it again when it's 40lbs and he asked if I knew how to clean one as if that was the reason I released it. He said they taste good a guy he knows brings them in and taught him how to get the bones out. I said bluegills and crappie would be my table fare if I were going to eat some fish and he seemed quite puzzled by it. He had alot of fish mounts in his
restaurant including one musky that does not look like it's a legal 36"er. |
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Posts: 260
Location: Kentucky | My personal opinion is that KY is still stuck in the dark ages when it comes to the muskie fishery! I grew up in Wisconsin, and have been fishing muskies when they truly were a fish of 10,000 casts! Today with CPR and teaching people why you should CPR, the fishery has gotten alot better.Not as true in KY!!!! I see more muskies in boats and on stringers in KY that anywhere. Buckhorn,Cave Run and Green River should all be 45" or 50" limits!! Then all those muskie killers would start fishing for stripers!!! I'm glad that the KY Fish & Wildlife has hired someone new to take the muskie fishery to the next level! I'll send a letter ASAP!!!!!
Thanks for the info!!!
Bret |
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Posts: 143
Location: Kentucky | I'll send a letter out asap Chris. I've been wanting to talk to someone about a statewide limit anyway. I've seen sub-legal's skinned out and thrown on the bank in the Kentucky River area I fish. It makes me sick!
Yes, we are still in the dark ages down here. However, we are making some progress and if we all stick together we can accomplish whatever we want too.
CPR
Chris |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | check out:
http://pub90.ezboard.com/fkentuckyanglingforumfrm2.showMessage?topi...
Describes one fellow keeping a muskie out of the river that feeds Cave Run. We know THAT fish won't get any bigger. You probably won't enjoy the web-guy's view on C&R either, wouldn't hurt to post your concerns there, too. m |
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Posts: 568
| Hey Chris -- Thanks for bringing this issue to the forefront. I'll get a letter fired off this week sometime. Was looking at my Ky silver muskie club catch report and saw a guy who listed 3 catches and kept all 3 ! INCLUDING 2 31 inch juveniles the same day . Was seriously debating on how to bring some attention to this guy so that someone who knows him might try to educate him on the value of CPR. His name is Charles Claxon. If any club members can get a chance to POLITELY persude him to release a few I'd appreciate it. Sorry to get off on a tangent but that has been bothering me for days. I will fight for higher size limits in any way possable. A max of 1 per day is much more reasonable also. Take Care ManitouDan (Dan Stevenson) |
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Posts: 143
Location: Kentucky | Mikie, you have to realize that just a year ago this man was keeping all kinds of muskie. Most of the people that come to his website get really upset and have boycotted it all together. I on the other hand have went fishing with this man and was able to talk to him about his catch and release opinion. These fish were released because of his new found respect for the muskie. Most of the old timer's down here in Kentucky, have grown up on the river's that have native fish and have natural reproduction. It was simply a way of life for them. You can either get mad at them and cuss them out. Then they will still continue to keep the muskie they catch. Or you can try and explain what a precious resource they are and work with them in trying to promote catch and release. Every post I make on this site has something about catch and release on it. I also sign all my posts with CPR.
I encourage your posts about catch and release. However, we have to be careful about how we go about it.
Thanks
CPR
Chris |
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Posts: 688
Location: Northern IL | What dose it take them to stop dumping there old dish washers into Buckhorn lake? |
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Posts: 73
Location: Hazard KY | The Trash flow into the Lake has slowed the last few years but with major flooding like we had this spring every peice of trash and anything else that would float came down the river. We have Lake clean up twice a year but it flooded 4 times. It slowed us down some but we are working on it. If you dont like the trash come down and help our next clean up is the 3rd week in April. we need all the help we can. as you know it is a senic lake. Heck every flood control lake in the ohio river vally has a refrigerator or a dish washer floating in it. tow them in the Corps will pick them up at the ramps.
let em Grow
Chris |
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Posts: 392
Location: KY | Jerry
This is a little off subject, but keeping our lakes and rivers free of trash is a big big problem. One tool the state has implemented is the certified clean county program. As part of the certified clean county program counties must have mandatory trash pick up. In return the state gives 75% of the cost of cleaning up illegal dumps to the counties. I think there are about five counties in KY that have been certified and another half dozen or so that are working on certification. A good source for information on this subject and other environmental issues in KY is the online magazine Kentucky Land Air and Water.
http://www.environment.ky.gov/nrepc/landairwater/summer03/index.htm |
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Posts: 392
Location: KY | Jerry
This is a little off subject, but keeping our lakes and rivers free of trash is a big big problem. One tool the state has implemented is the certified clean county program. As part of the certified clean county program counties must have mandatory trash pick up. In return the state gives 75% of the cost of cleaning up illegal dumps to the counties. I think there are about five counties in KY that have been certified and another half dozen or so that are working on certification. A good source for information on this subject and other environmental issues in KY is the online magazine Kentucky Land Air and Water.
http://www.environment.ky.gov/nrepc/landairwater/summer03/index.htm
BruceKY |
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Posts: 63
Location: Indianapolis, IN | |
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Posts: 20281
Location: oswego, il | There are places with no trash pick up? Der-der-der-der-der-der-der-der-der... And here I thought we were in a new century. |
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Posts: 73
Location: Hazard KY | Trash or no trash our muskie program needs In with the new (Kevin Frye) and Out with the old (Lew Corman) Lew has help establish the fishery but he will not let it grow. One good thing he is up for retirement. when he retires they plan for a state wide 36" one fish aday instead of the current 30" two fish aday.
I belive that even 40"s is to small it should be 50"
Chris |
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Posts: 688
Location: Northern IL | Chris,
It's a real shame to see such a thing anytime on any lake. Buckhorn is a real gem of a lake and loaded with a lot big fish. It's in one of the most beautiful areas of the country. I've been to your area about a dozen times and we have never failed to land a muskie. Ky has done a great job with all the lakes and it sounds like things are moving in the right direction. Keep it up! |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Rivermuskie - thanks for the advice, I will try to tone it down a bit. My concern is that some folks think they are doing the resource a favor by thinning out the samll fish. Maybe that works with bluegill but I'm not convinced that is the way to run a muskie fisherie.
Hey, if you ever want to go out sometime let me know. We'll be down at the Cave Oct. 10th weekend. hang a biggun. m |
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Posts: 143
Location: Kentucky | Mikie, if you only knew how I felt when I seen that he had kept a muskie. I was freakin out! I really had to bite my tongue. So, somehow that's what I did. I set back and watched several other people have at him and watched this feud develope before my eye's. I seen that it wasn't going anywhere and he was set in his way's. I thought I would try a different approach and try to educate him and bring him to his sense's. I still have away's to go. However, everyone else that cussed at him and threatened him bodily harm. LOL They didn't have any impact on his opinion whatsoever. At least he is listening to what I have to say about C&R. I need your help. Don't leave me all alone. LOL I love ya man! LOL
I'll be on the Cave that weekend. I'll look you up.
CPR
Chris |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | OK, I wrote to the KYDFWR in support of a 40 inch limit and just received a courteous response from James R. Axon, the assistant director of the fish & wildlife commission. In his letter, he says they are NOT planning an increase to the size limit for Cave Run and Green River Lakes based upon creel surveys conducted this year on those lakes. Only 24% of the anglers surveyed at Cave Run supported such an increase, 22% at Green River. They are 'currently evaluating' a 40 inch limit at Buckhorn, since 61.5% of those surveyed there supported it.
I'm just wondering how scientific these creel surveys really are, and if other Muskie States base their resource decisions upon them. To be fair, he also stated that Muskies, Inc.'s ranking of Cave and Green from Lunge Log data shows they are 'providing world class numbers of 40 inch fish without a trophy size limit', due largely to voluntary CPR. Any ideas? m |
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Posts: 342
Location: Passaic, NJ - Upper French River, ON | Mikie-
New York state has netting data going back over 75 years on Chautauqua Lake, and uses annual info to adjust size and/or numbers limits. It seems that the big muskie states would share info on methods, and cause and effect to be a little more scientific in their approaches.
There are many, moderators included, that refuse to see what overharvesting can do to a fishery.
My letter to KY is in the mail.
Caverun - Photo - Release
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Posts: 33
Location: Louisville, KY. | Chris,
I did not see this post when you originally put it on. I'm glad I did now. I will send a letter right away. I think we would start crying if we knew how many muskies are kept at the Cave and Green River. I have tried to educate a bunch of guys that keep any muskie over 30" at Green. It may have worked. They thought the muskies were naturally reproducing there.
I have talked to most of the well known guides at the Cave and none of them seem willing to support a 40 inch or higher limit. I think this is a problem for us. I went to my first KY Silver Muskie Club banquet last year, and they gave an award for kept muskies. I think the guy that won kept a 36 incher. I couldn't believe it. I am a Kentuckian, and our lakes are beautiful, bt we have a long way to go with muskie fishing. |
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Posts: 364
Location: Kentucky | Glad to see this topic is revived, and thanks to Esoxalot for e-mailing me a sample letter. If anyone wants to send a letter, just check my profile and e-mail me, and we'll be happy to share the template. I, too, fish the Cave and Green River and have also heard first-hand the KY DNR hide behind the same rationale that it's not what anglers want and that we should be grateful for what we have. Taking the time to write the DNR, politely educating fellow anglers, and keeping the topic alive may bring change. Perhaps it could go a long way in dispelling the hillbilly KY musky hunter myth if more progressive fisheries management is undertaken. Might be a good thing for signatures on a petition at the Chicago Muskie Show. |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | ...and if you put a petition together, maybe Steve could bring it to the Columbus, Ohio, muskie show at the MF booth. I just wonder how 'scientific' these creel surveys are: do they really get a statistically representative sample of Cave Run's anglers or is it just whomever happens to be on the water during certain days?
There are certainly better food fish than muskies, and anything over 30" is prolly not a good eating size anyway. Hard to believe the taxidermy business is that busy around Cave Run and Green. thanks for the help on this, I can't help but think that if some of those fellows would have left just one or two more muskies in the lake, I might have even been able to hook one during my last dozen trips! m |
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Posts: 7123
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Guys, I hate to potentially stick a fork in your plans, but have you thought that maybe a large portion of the residents really ARENT in favor of the size increases? Just a thought. I am all for big muskies everywhere, and as much as I applaud your efforts and passion, I do think there is a possibility that people are missing, or just downright ignoring: maybe the Kentucky residents DONT care for bigger muskies? |
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Location: Athens, Ohio | Good point, Slamr. I'd respond that Cave Run Lake (dunno about the other two) is part of Daniel Boone National Forest; the dam and lake maintained by the US Army Corps of Engineers. The area boasts a federal fish hatchery for muskies that stock the lake.
That said, I figure folks from Ohio, West by-god Virginia, Wisconsin, Minnesota, all of us have a stake in the management of this national treasure. Despite posts I've seen on other boards from locals about us Buckeyes fishing 'their' lake, this resource belongs to us all. m |
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Posts: 7123
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Point taken, probably a good point to show to those you are trying to convince at a state level. I state (at least partially) corrected.
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Posts: 642
Location: mount prospect illinois | I have never fished Kentucky waters but have spoken to alot of people who have and who live down there. I feel the general climate (attitude) needs to change before anything really starts to move. This doesnt happen overnight by a longshot (ie: the oldtimers have always done it a certain way and THATS THAT!). Education and experience is the way to go. Easy for me to say though. I also cant see why there would be no desire for larger muskies. The only reason i could see is the mis-guided thought that larger fish would eat everything else. |
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Posts: 342
Location: Passaic, NJ - Upper French River, ON | Slamr-
The locals that I have spoken to at Cave Run don't want size limits for one reason. It is that rare fishery that offers size and numbers, and this is how it attracts so many guys.
Somebody told me that the muskies don't spawn there because the water gets so hot and low on oxygen in the summer. The hatchery is there to make up for what nature can not provide. Who knows howe many they put inthere each year.
The question on this individual lake seems to be what is the limit on what the lake can provide - before it gets overharvested - and jeopardizes its' own future, vs. what it is stocked with.
It is not fair to regulate this lake with the same methods used on lakes that naturally produce muskies.
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