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Posts: 94
| This is a follow up question to JJ's about spinner baits vs bucktails. I love both spinners and bucktails around weeds and timber, but does anyone use them for casting to suspended muskies?
Chris
I forgot to wish everyone a very Merry Christmas and a Happy Muskie Catching New Year.
Edited by hotlanta 12/22/2006 9:36 AM
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | In March of this year on Skinner Lake in Indiana my wife took a 43 incher with a white and grey Bucktail(Talonz Spinline) . Water temps were cold around 40 degrees. The fish was suspended over 17 feet of water. I was casting towards shore with spoons and she chucked one out towards the middle of the lake go figure? I know there are guys up in Georgian Bay like Jody Mills who cast big Bucktails over suspended fish. Articles have been written on the subject in old issues of Musky hunter Magazine. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 1938
Location: Black Creek, WI | I'm beginning to use them more and more out over the abyss.
I still favor crankbaits for fishing true basin-related suspendos..... but after my wife lost a legit Wisconsin 40+ pounder in 50 feet of water on a Mepps Marabou two years ago.... I began experimenting more and more with bucktails and spinnerbaits "out there" with some positive results. But... I'm still experimenting so I don't really have anything constructive to say about the tactic.... yet. Thus, I'm anxious to see what others have to say.... to help speed up the learning curve.
Edited by jlong 12/22/2006 9:45 AM
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| Kingfisher not to doubt you but if she was only casting a cast length out from shore do you still consider that suspended fishing? I guess when I think of suspended fish and fishing I'm out a little further than that...and probably over deeper water...
I have only started to do more of it the last season and I did have some good action, though nothing hooked, on a medium sized bucktail, white with silver colorado over 20-25 feet of water fishing around and in suspended baitfish....in a short window I brought in 4 or 5 nice fish to about 45" ..and who said suspended fish don't follow...? false.
I think spinnerbaits counted down could be a great tactic and I'd like to experiment with the big double 10's weighted out over the schools of cisco...could be deadly... |
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Posts: 132
| Check out Abyss Bucktails and Cisco Spins at jacksonlures.com They cast a mile and run deep. Great blades for suspended fish. |
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Posts: 222
Location: Hartland, WI | high riders early in the year. burn 'em.
Edited by muskie_man1 12/25/2007 6:37 PM
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Posts: 286
Location: Eagan, MN | bn
My primary approach to basin-related suspendos is speed-related; specifically, burning a 10" Suick. While the strikes feel impressive, I'm much less impressed when these fish come un-pinned. I, too, plan to experiment w/ double 10's as well this year in an attempt to call fish up and reduce the number of fish that I dump. I'm concerned that the double 10's may be a bit too high-riding though and would prefer to run the thing down a bit more -but with speed.
I'll note that Rizzo discusses the use of weighted bucktails for suspended fish in his "Summer Musky" book(let). However, I don't know whether he was adding a keel weight in front of the lure or what. Maybe someone that knows how he presented these heavily weighted bucktails to suspendos can comment?
BrianF. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | We haven't tore them up, but have gotten bit, and seem to do better with inlines, and like bodies on them(rubber or wood). My wife does prefer her skunktail, and uses that whenever we are out in the abyss(though, admittedly, we fish in the abyss alot less than we did 6-7 years ago). In June and Early July, when the fish are riding high, and we feel we are fishing underneath them with other things, we bring out the blades and topwater. I don't think it is any different than covering a great big shallow flat.
My friend Chuck told me about a guy that used to use super magnum(13-16") bucktails with really big blades on the mani chain in the 70's and the guy cracked some real tanks. He'd cast one out and let it sink, while reeling the other one in.
Edited by Reef Hawg 12/22/2006 10:51 AM
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Posts: 1168
| Yes. Had a 3 fish 90 minute block doing this. Unloaded a crapload of hay earlier in the day so my arms were worn out to the point where I couldn't throw cranks without being in a bit of pain....just a straight retrieve was about all I could muster that night. Just wanted to get out on the water and threw on an inline bucktail. Not hoping to even catch anything, just wanting to be out on the water and over about 30 feet, keeping it within the top 4 feet of the water column they'd explode on it. Those 3 fish were between 40-43. |
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Posts: 1938
Location: Black Creek, WI | Reef Hawg - 12/22/2006 10:48 AM
In June and Early July, when the fish are riding high, and we feel we are fishing underneath them with other things, we bring out the blades and topwater. I don't think it is any different than covering a great big shallow flat.
That exact thought is how I've been keeping my confidence up long enough to test this tactic.
BrianF. - 12/22/2006 10:07 AM
I'm concerned that the double 10's may be a bit too high-riding though and would prefer to run the thing down a bit more -but with speed.
Ummm..... sounds like you need a LongTale Spinnerbait.  |
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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | BN, we were a cast length from shore and I was throwing up into the shallows . she tossed one out over open water. That makes two cast lengths away from shore. Skinner doesnt get much over 25 feet deep. The drop off was pretty quick and we were sitting in maybe 15 feet on an inside turn. I figure she took the fish from 17/18 feet. No where near the weed edge so Yes I would call it a suspended fish. It didnt hit near the boat either. I found it quite amazing that one would hit a Bucktail in water that cold. It was the first time I had ever seen this happen. Im normally twitching or slow cranking small Crankbaits on those Indiana lakes that early in the spring. Our next trip there netted us two more but on all white and yellow 4 inch spoons.Kingfisher |
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| While trolling some deep water whitefish lakes this fall after several hours of no action but seeing fish stacked(Tullies) on deep breaks 30' to 80', we cast to these areas using a sinking deep diving style cranks and I ran a 3 and 4 oz Sonic Chinook and Super Chinooks from Muskiemachinery being the only baits I really had that I felt could get in these fishes face, unfortunately the fish were just off that day but I think that a 4oz lure could really be the ticket if fished slowly though these lines of bait and Mr Voigt makes several different spinners that can be coptered down to these depths over open water and deep structure, you can see them all at mmspinnerbaits link in my Sig below he's a heck of a bait maker and a wealth of knowledge. |
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| Fool
im with you there. killer spinners..and Steve is a great dude.
i love my MuskieMachinery Spinners, specially the double bladed heavy ones. |
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Posts: 1636
| This year I caught fish casting in 30 plus fow. It works, however, that water was very clear. |
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Posts: 551
Location: Columbus, Georgia | The MuskyMachinery site has many links not working properly, and no links whatsoever to order lures. There happens to be a nice animated helicopter covering the contact email or telephone number.
I would greatly appreciate if anyone could supply with their contact information.
Thanks a lot,
Craig |
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| Just email Muskie Machinery Mr. Steve Voight at [email protected] |
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Posts: 551
Location: Columbus, Georgia | Thanks Muskyboy! |
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| Sorry cjrich I shoulda posted his addy for you guys since IE seems to cover the E-mail with the animation. |
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| I have had tremendous success over the years throwing 700 series Bucher Willow Bucks over deep water for suspended fish. Here in Ohio the standard walleye bait on Lake Erie was a weight forward spinner to fish suspended fish, it is the same application for muskies. I like a willow blade for this application and I also add a rubber core sinker to either the shaft of the bucktail or the leader for a little bit of added weight. I then use the coiuntdown method which can be different for different baits, but a foot a second seems to be the norm. I have taken fish up to 25-30 feet down over 40 plus feet of water using this countdown method. Cast the bait out and count it down to the depth you want then slowly retrieve it back. I like to use an erratic retrieve while in open water because it distinguishes your bait from other baitfish and gives it a wounded appearance. Also, keep a taught line when the bait is falling as I have had fish hit it on the way down. Cisco based lakes work best for this method but I have taken them in stained water lakes as well, especially if there is a cold spring early in the season. Bladed baits are every bit as effective in open water as in the shallows if you know how to apply them correctly. |
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Posts: 191
Location: WV | We too have been casting bladed baits for suspended muskies. Only we are using 5 oz. safetypin spinner baits either counting down 2-3' @ second or slower rolling. These are the same baits we short-line/speed troll over shallow water in weeds and over timber, even up to 7mph. jw |
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Posts: 28
| I've also had some luck with big suspended fish on those heavy spinnerbaits(Willeys).I personally like to troll them and by playing with your trolling speed you can run those 5 ouncers down pretty deep.They can be used for a lot of applications and i also like to use them for slowly grinding along bottom in deep water in the late fall.Just get them moving along quick enough to get the blade turning and the flash and vibration of the blade attracts the fish ,and the large profile of the spinnerbait seals the deal.If trolling is not an option you can also cast and countdown these heavyweights to what ever depth you want and crank em back in.Excellent all around bait! Mike |
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| It depends on the conditions, and if I'm over baitfish or not.
I like to use gliders over baitfish that are 15' down or less, deeper I'll go to cranks and blades that I made, and pull them right through the baitfish which theoretically makes them scatter. I know that blades do that to shallow schools, but can't prove it happens in deep water.
Anyway, I made some 2 ounce single bladed spinnerbaits with either a heavy Indiana or a Willowleaf, and even with 3 skirts on a lure, I can keep them down 10 to 15', or when I count it down, I'll hesitate and let it helicopter every once in a while and then rip it or you can just slow roll them and keep them down. The 2 ounce lure with an 8/0 wide gap hook and 3 skirts and a 5-6 inch trailer is actually easy on your arms, and gives me a change up when gliders and cranks don't get any attention.
I like using them off of steep breaks too. I'll cast them shallow and helicopter them down the break.
Beav |
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| I think out over open water is one of the situations the big bucktails and especially spinnerbaits can shine, and not just casted but trolled too. Where we do the bulk of our fishing, you're never more than a long cast from water that's 40, 60 or 120 feet deep. Specifically Georgian Bay and the French Rivers. Most of our best spots, one guys up near the shallow shoal or weeds and the other is working over water much deeper, they're often very close to each other. Ledges or lips around islands seem to be the spots year after year. You roll in from eighty feet of water and the rocks and cabbage show up fast. Lots of fish are caught as we enter or leave spots casting. Big, loud and slow surface baits, jekrbaits that move a lot of water and large, heavy bootails all work. I use 0.40 blades on mine and the baits cast long and run low in the water as soon as you let off the gas a bit on the retreive. Many of the fish we catch are when the boat still in 40+ feet of water, either throwing right up on spots or somewhere outside them. I think the deep water that surrounds the weeds, rocks, wood and other shallow cover is as important as any other component the spot might have. Nearly all of our best areas on the French Rivers are the islands in deep basins/channels that are real close to deep water but that have that 20/40 foot skirt setting the table around them on at least a couple sides. Guys I know get fish over 60+ feet of water on surface baits in the summer, throwing just outside these areas, and at night when you'd think the shallowest spots would be better. Suspended-type areas have just been too productive for us to not fish them. Big bucktails have all the right moves out there, big profile, heavy thump, fishable at any depth and good hookers. We threw 13" jntd Beleivers in these areas on the surface more this year and will keep trying it, especially in the dark. |
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Posts: 389
Location: Presque Isle Wisconsin | Throwing Bladed baits,especially very large and deep running bucktails like the double tens and even larger blades and bodies is an outstanding technique over open water.I use the weights off the old Mepps LUSOX, and the ABYSS. Rollie + Helens also sells a 1oz. weight with a snap swivel especialy for this purpose.The weights should be large enough to make the blades spin on the drop.
The guy that reef hawg referred to above that fished over open water on the manotowish chain was Ralph Kebl. He made his own extremely large bucktails and called them his big black cats.As mentioned he took some very big fish using this method. Take a look at the structural maps of some of the lakes on the manny chain and its obvious why open water fishing is often the way to go.
Like everything in Musky fishing there are days when this technique will shine and days when they want a more erratic presentation ,or soft plastics ,etc etc etc |
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Posts: 117
| good subject guys.. actually one of my new years resolutions is throwing more blades this coming '08 season.
its stupid how i lose faith in such a proven bait such as a bucktail, but looking back my first fish was on a cowgirl. And my buddies was on a mepps muskie killer tandem.
I actually have tried this method on lake out here in pa (more like a pond) where i would cast anything from a small Bucher700 to the Shumways Giant flasher (which i think looks BAS A$$ in the water!!!) over humps and along edges. hey the bass guys do so why cant we right?
Just got to get more faith in the blades i guess |
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Posts: 3242
Location: Racine, Wi | 7Islands - 12/26/2007 8:03 AM
The guy that reef hawg referred to above that fished over open water on the manotowish chain was Ralph Kebl. He made his own extremely large bucktails and called them his big black cats.As mentioned he took some very big fish using this method. Take a look at the structural maps of some of the lakes on the manny chain and its obvious why open water fishing is often the way to go.
Howie, I used to make those tails for Ralph. He is the guy that got me crazily into musky fishing and taught me a ton about the chain. He came to me one day and asked me to make him something large and black. So I did. He did really well on them, but if my memory serves me good, many of the bigger fish he caught were in June. He did catch them at other times, but I remember a few that were in the June period.
That being said, we did well with XXs over the open waters when the fish were aggressive. Just a medium speed retrieve got them to eat and if they didn't they would respond to a weagle thrown back. Although, we had alot of the fish jumping over the weagles and not grabbing them. Might have to work on that part.  |
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