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Posts: 333
Location: SE Wisc | Any truth to the “thinner wire has more vibration than thicker wire” theory? Obviously there is a difference in durability but I’ve caught fish on both and haven’t kept any good records from fish caught in regards to. Anyone have any scientific proof or insight? |
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Posts: 1220
| Don’t see why wire gauge would have significant impact on vibration, but it definitely has impact on depth. The thicker wire in the Spanky’s I like to toss get the blades down deeper, sort of like lead-core trolling line. In really shallow rocks, you’re gonna need to be awake. Those baits have heavier blades too, and that’s where the vibration comes from. |
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Posts: 267
| I honestly think there is something to wire thickness. I think blades spin freer on thinner wire. Whatever wire Mepps uses on there Musky Killers is awesome stuff but that is a two piece design with shorter lengths of wire. Seems really stiff for thinner wire. But I've always built my bucktails with .051 or larger, especially bigger bucktails. |
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Location: Vilas | just go fishing and enjoy your time on the water....muskies have the brain the size of a pea.... I dont think they are down there thinking ...hmmm thats a bucktail with .051 shaft..im gonna wait for a .062, I like the vibration of the extra .011 wire |
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| i think the big blades will completely destroy the tiny vibration you could get out of a .51 wire.imo that rumours have been created by guys whit lil hands that are too week to play with .62 lol. .52 bent way too much,not fun at all to fish whit these.
lol so true about the musky brain,and look at the baits they bite on.the ugliest of all lures on the planet
Edited by supertrollr 3/9/2018 9:42 AM
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Posts: 8792
| I throw both. The thinner wire/thinner blade combo is easier to throw over shallow weeds and shallow rocks. It's a matter of utility IMO. The fish don't care. If they were that discerning, we'd never catch them. In fact, they'd probably have gone extinct long ago. |
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Posts: 3486
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | sukrchukr - 3/9/2018 8:24 AM
just go fishing and enjoy your time on the water....muskies have the brain the size of a pea.... I dont think they are down there thinking ...hmmm thats a bucktail with .051 shaft..im gonna wait for a .062, I like the vibration of the extra .011 wire
Really?!! This is the response you give to a valid question? It didn't even pertain to a muskie's thinking...
The question was whether or not there was any information regarding vibration as it pertains to wire thickness. Can there be a distinct difference on a given day based on vibration? Absolutely!! Take two different bucktails of the same design, but different size...one can easily outperform the other. That pertains to blade size, but wire thickness can inhibit vibration or enhance it based on size.
In theory, the thinner wire would allow for more vibration as compared to the heavier wire using the same blades...why? Weight difference... the bigger the weight differential, the bigger a vibration will be felt.
Think of it this way... if you watch a ceiling fan....not balanced, it will move back and forth a bit. the shaft for that, lets say for arguments purpose is 3/4" diameter and solid. it'll wobble a bit.
Now...put that same fan on a shaft of, oh...say 6 inches of the same material and also solid, the shaft will weigh much more, thus reducing the effect of any imbalance. It might still wobble, but not as much. The same would hold true with blades on a bucktail of varying wire thickness.
Is it something we will readily feel? probably not...but with the sensing abilities of a lateral line on these fish when in close contact, I'd wager to say there is a chance that one type of vibration may lead to a strike or follow, or it may lead to shying away... All depends on what the fish are triggered by that day...
Steve
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Posts: 20230
Location: oswego, il | I don't think there is much difference in weight between the same length of .062 and .051 wire. Heavy blades do weight alot more, spin much slower and create less lift. If anything, a different sound is different to a musky that may have become conditioned to the sound of a type of bucktail thrown alot.
Hopefully some strong handed lure makers will emerge from all of this and we can start seeing bucktails made from 1/4' round stock. It's time! |
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Location: Vilas | VMS - 3/9/2018 9:56 AM
sukrchukr - 3/9/2018 8:24 AM
just go fishing and enjoy your time on the water....muskies have the brain the size of a pea.... I dont think they are down there thinking ...hmmm thats a bucktail with .051 shaft..im gonna wait for a .062, I like the vibration of the extra .011 wire
Really?!! This is the response you give to a valid question? It didn't even pertain to a muskie's thinking...
The question was whether or not there was any information regarding vibration as it pertains to wire thickness. Can there be a distinct difference on a given day based on vibration? Absolutely!! Take two different bucktails of the same design, but different size...one can easily outperform the other. That pertains to blade size, but wire thickness can inhibit vibration or enhance it based on size.
In theory, the thinner wire would allow for more vibration as compared to the heavier wire using the same blades...why? Weight difference... the bigger the weight differential, the bigger a vibration will be felt.
Think of it this way... if you watch a ceiling fan....not balanced, it will move back and forth a bit. the shaft for that, lets say for arguments purpose is 3/4" diameter and solid. it'll wobble a bit.
Now...put that same fan on a shaft of, oh...say 6 inches of the same material and also solid, the shaft will weigh much more, thus reducing the effect of any imbalance. It might still wobble, but not as much. The same would hold true with blades on a bucktail of varying wire thickness.
Is it something we will readily feel? probably not...but with the sensing abilities of a lateral line on these fish when in close contact, I'd wager to say there is a chance that one type of vibration may lead to a strike or follow, or it may lead to shying away... All depends on what the fish are triggered by that day...
Steve
[/QUOTE
Yea, thats my response....I dont care if you particularly like it or not..... I think there is alot of over thinking when comes to things like this....
just go fishing and enjoy your day............ like Doug Johnson says "cast, reel, repeat... and when one bites, reel the #*^@ thing in" |
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| VMS - 3/9/2018 9:56 AM
sukrchukr - 3/9/2018 8:24 AM
just go fishing and enjoy your time on the water....muskies have the brain the size of a pea.... I dont think they are down there thinking ...hmmm thats a bucktail with .051 shaft..im gonna wait for a .062, I like the vibration of the extra .011 wire
Really?!! This is the response you give to a valid question? It didn't even pertain to a muskie's thinking...
The question was whether or not there was any information regarding vibration as it pertains to wire thickness. Can there be a distinct difference on a given day based on vibration? Absolutely!! Take two different bucktails of the same design, but different size...one can easily outperform the other. That pertains to blade size, but wire thickness can inhibit vibration or enhance it based on size.
In theory, the thinner wire would allow for more vibration as compared to the heavier wire using the same blades...why? Weight difference... the bigger the weight differential, the bigger a vibration will be felt.
Think of it this way... if you watch a ceiling fan....not balanced, it will move back and forth a bit. the shaft for that, lets say for arguments purpose is 3/4" diameter and solid. it'll wobble a bit.
Now...put that same fan on a shaft of, oh...say 6 inches of the same material and also solid, the shaft will weigh much more, thus reducing the effect of any imbalance. It might still wobble, but not as much. The same would hold true with blades on a bucktail of varying wire thickness.
Is it something we will readily feel? probably not...but with the sensing abilities of a lateral line on these fish when in close contact, I'd wager to say there is a chance that one type of vibration may lead to a strike or follow, or it may lead to shying away... All depends on what the fish are triggered by that day...
Steve
how did you know all that? did you finally caught one that have find a way to telling you his taste for wire size? i like the fan vs bucktail comparison |
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Posts: 676
Location: Wisconsin | Good vibrations, no side effects. |
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Posts: 333
Location: SE Wisc | sukrchukr - 3/9/2018 8:24 AM
just go fishing and enjoy your time on the water....muskies have the brain the size of a pea.... I dont think they are down there thinking ...hmmm thats a bucktail with .051 shaft..im gonna wait for a .062, I like the vibration of the extra .011 wire
Lol. It’s just a question to help me get through these winter months waiting for open water in the Midwest! ( like most of the topics here) Your response could be used for 90% of the threads on here..... so why do you even bother? Of course fish aren’t down there doing calculus but they may feel the difference between two different wires, and then again they may not. But exceptional fishermen pay attention to the small details. One evident fact from this thread is that thicker wire will be heavier than thinner if made from the same material and used on a bucktail with the same keel weight you’d be smart to use the lighter wire in shallow water. |
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Location: Vilas | sorry, but .011 difference in wire diameter over the length of a 6"-7" bucktail shaft isnt going to make enough difference in weight to make one bucktail run shallower than another.... back to your original question tho... could it make a different vibration, maybe, no one can say for sure. They can have their theories/opinions, but thats all they are. Im entitled to mine as much as anyone here. Im simply saying, IMO, its not going to make a difference...... |
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Posts: 492
Location: Northern Illinois | I believe the weight of Spanky's blades and beads is the reason the lure runs deeper. The blade weight is the biggest factor in vibration also. However if you want more vibration wouldn't a single blade be more apt to give it to you because 2 blades tend to balance each other out? |
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Posts: 625
Location: S.W. WI | I re-wired my jr. cowgirl with .62 wire last spring. It did not feel the same to me when I used it early summer. Noticeably less thump. I re-wired with .51 and it felt like a jr.cowgirl again. It may not matter to a fish, but I felt the difference.
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Posts: 1084
Location: Aurora | Closest thing to data i can find is an article written for Musky Hunter by Luke Ronnestrand in the June/July 2016 issue called "Blades A to Z". Within the "Modifications" section, the following is paraphrased --> Luke states that rebuilding a spinner using American Fishing wire that is .045 diameter as opposed to standard .051 wire will make a spinner more lively and attributes this to more vibration and allowing for increased clevis freedom. He goes on to say that this modification is very productive but that it only works with spinners up to size 9.
Luke is a well respected Minnesota musky guide and contributing writer for Musky Hunter magazine. |
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Location: oswego, il | Sidejack - 3/9/2018 10:52 PM
Closest thing to data i can find is an article written for Musky Hunter by Luke Ronnestrand in the June/July 2016 issue called "Blades A to Z". Within the "Modifications" section, the following is paraphrased --> Luke states that rebuilding a spinner using American Fishing wire that is .045 diameter as opposed to standard .051 wire will make a spinner more lively and attributes this to more vibration and allowing for increased clevis freedom. He goes on to say that this modification is very productive but that it only works with spinners up to size 9.
Luke is a well respected Minnesota musky guide and contributing writer for Musky Hunter magazine.
Luke is a good guy with alot of experience. Are you sure he just doesn't have small hands?  |
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Posts: 1425
Location: St. Lawrence River | Not really sure, but i like the heavier wire. Just personal preference. Ive got one heavy wired bucktail with 3 50+ fish on it and it has been slightly bent/restraightened so many times it just has this wobble/click to it.. |
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Location: Aurora | ToddM - 3/10/2018 6:59 AM
Luke is a good guy with alot of experience. Are you sure he just doesn't have small hands? :)
Small hands no, and he passed the T-rex arms test too.. ~ahem~
Kidding aside, I've had them eat all types of spinners made from various materials and built on all varying thicknesses of wire. In the spirit of the, "There Are No Magic Baits" perspective, as long as you put on something that makes you feel warm and fuzzy your chances are good. Once you become adept at keeping that bait in the water, your chances become even better. |
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Location: ontario | I used .050 on a dbl 10 with 4 rattles above the egg. Vibrax bell on top. thing sounds like maracas but will probably be pooched after 1 fish. |
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Posts: 3486
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | supertrollr - 3/9/2018 2:06 PM
VMS - 3/9/2018 9:56 AM
sukrchukr - 3/9/2018 8:24 AM
just go fishing and enjoy your time on the water....muskies have the brain the size of a pea.... I dont think they are down there thinking ...hmmm thats a bucktail with .051 shaft..im gonna wait for a .062, I like the vibration of the extra .011 wire
Really?!! This is the response you give to a valid question? It didn't even pertain to a muskie's thinking...
The question was whether or not there was any information regarding vibration as it pertains to wire thickness. Can there be a distinct difference on a given day based on vibration? Absolutely!! Take two different bucktails of the same design, but different size...one can easily outperform the other. That pertains to blade size, but wire thickness can inhibit vibration or enhance it based on size.
In theory, the thinner wire would allow for more vibration as compared to the heavier wire using the same blades...why? Weight difference... the bigger the weight differential, the bigger a vibration will be felt.
Think of it this way... if you watch a ceiling fan....not balanced, it will move back and forth a bit. the shaft for that, lets say for arguments purpose is 3/4" diameter and solid. it'll wobble a bit.
Now...put that same fan on a shaft of, oh...say 6 inches of the same material and also solid, the shaft will weigh much more, thus reducing the effect of any imbalance. It might still wobble, but not as much. The same would hold true with blades on a bucktail of varying wire thickness.
Is it something we will readily feel? probably not...but with the sensing abilities of a lateral line on these fish when in close contact, I'd wager to say there is a chance that one type of vibration may lead to a strike or follow, or it may lead to shying away... All depends on what the fish are triggered by that day...
Steve
how did you know all that? did you finally caught one that have find a way to telling you his taste for wire size? i like the fan vs bucktail comparison
YUP...look at my profile picture... Oh...and I suppose I shouldn't leave out that I have a degree in mathematics with emphasis in applied mathematics/physics... I teach this stuff...
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Posts: 2337
Location: Chisholm, MN | I built a bunch of bucktails on .045 wire for the purpose of more vibration. I feel it definitely makes more vibration and I've done well with them. But I've done well on .051 as well obviously. I do refuse to use larger wire though. Why would you need it? Bent up wire is a good thing. |
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Posts: 47
| I've rolled more than a few tails over the years in many different configurations. IIRC the original Buchertails were built on .041 wire. That surprised me because at that time I had settled on .043, mostly because I had a pile of free to me. wire. Of course that was long before the supersized offerings we use now were known.
I now use a diameter sized to the lure, heavier for bigger and lighter for smaller simply from durability standpoint. .045 wire just doesn't last long with a couple of #10s and couple of ounces of assorted weight when you're burning 'em and smaller components don't fit well (or at all) on heavier wire. But yeah, I always carry a "repair" kit in the boat to rescue a hot lure that's been destroyed.
I'll agree that any component change can affect perceived and felt vibration. Wire diameter, blade shape and thickness, tail dressing, total lure weight and speed of retrieve can all contribute. As to the brain size thing? I think this is where vibration figures in the most. Pea brains aren't doing applied anything. Mostly it's reacting to what either looks right or, more often, feels right.
Sidejack - 3/10/2018 10:17 AM
Kidding aside, I've had them eat all types of spinners made from various materials and built on all varying thicknesses of wire. In the spirit of the, "There Are No Magic Baits" perspective, as long as you put on something that makes you feel warm and fuzzy your chances are good. Once you become adept at keeping that bait in the water, your chances become even better.
That's "my line"... No real magic but sometimes it sure seems like it. If it is the right tool for the job, fishes and hooks efficiently and gives you the confidence to keep it wet you'll connect. |
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Posts: 155
| I like the fact that after a fish bends the crap out of a bucktail in the net(they will bend .062 just as much as .051), the .051 wire is easily straightened back out. I have a hard time getting the .062 wire straight again and usually end up re tying them.
I prefer the thinner wire for this reason.
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Posts: 1348
Location: Pewaukee, WI | X2! The more bends and twists you put on those baits the more clacking and other noises eminate from them. Of course you must straighten them to a reasonable degree each time they are bent, but they are not be a 100% straight and that's what adds to their uniqueness. |
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| bigbite - 3/17/2018 11:54 AM
X2! The more bends and twists you put on those baits the more clacking and other noises eminate from them. Of course to must straighten them to a reasonable degree each time they are bent, but they are not be a 100% straight and that's what adds to their uniqueness.
I'd venture to say they don't even start "working right" until you've had to straighten them out a few times. After that, as long as the blades spin they just keep getting better!
Unless you're looking at a failure (i.e. wire that's going to break on the next fish) I see no reason to rebuild them just because they are beat up. |
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