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Posts: 1106
Location: Muskegon Michigan | To the Missouri guy who posted the question on cracked paint . I am a lure maker and have found thru many tests that certain Maples and other hardwoods will explode when used in cold water. These woods can not expand or contract when sealed tight in a clear coat. If you remove the rest of the paint you may find hairline cracks in the wood as well. You dont see this happen as often in softer woods like cedar or Balsa . I built a hard Maple Talonz Deepthreat with a Titanium diving lip last year. I was going to call it a rock crusher. The plan was to use hard wood and Titanium to build the toughest deep diver rock banger ever. The first day I ran it in A Northern Michigan lake (very cold water) . The entire lure split from one end to the other shattering the paint and three layers of epoxy top coat. I never hit anything but had run it down into about 25 feet of water. So much for using Maple to build deep divers. Kingfisher |
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Posts: 136
Location: Chicago | Kingfisher, you are right about the hair line crack in the wood. Heres what happened to a Novak bait after a few casts the paint started peeling. Not sure what the water temps were.
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Posts: 1462
Location: Davenport, IA | I've had it happen multiple times with gliders. They still work fine and sometimes I eventually get to patching them up with epoxy. |
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Posts: 1316
Location: Lebanon,Mo | thanks so much for the info guys,it really helped!!! if i had a pic. i would post it. it looks like a windshield after i hit a turkey!! not fun!! |
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Posts: 1529
| soe woods cannot absorb paints as well. maple has tight pores. i use a lacquer sanding sealer after learning my lesson.. we think a bait is water sealed. in fact baits do and will be breached from teeth rocks etc. sealer has been a very good thing. rock maple is the worst for cracking and basiclly exploding in cold water fishing |
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Posts: 1504
Location: Oregon | This type of thing will happen on "occassion" regardless of the wood used. I personally don't think that the wood type had anything to do with the paint coming off. I know Tim and to my knowledge he never uses maple. My guess is that this lure is made from poplar.
A number of things could have happened to cause the finish to peel but mostly likely there was a tiny hole somewhere that let water in. Once the water gets in it slowly does it's work by either expanding the wood underneath thus splittig the clearcoat and/or reducing the adhesion between the paint and wood or clearcoat and paint and everthing peels off.
It's not a big deal, send it back to Tim, he will make it right.
jed v.
Bikini Bait Co. |
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Posts: 2112
Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water | Folks, you got to inspect your wooden baits after every trip. Hairline cracks need to be addressed before your next outing. Look them over close, and if you find any cracks, touch them up with epoxy. |
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Posts: 1764
Location: Ogden, Ut | I think I have more baits that are cracked (paint anyway) than those that aren't. It doesn't seem to matter for me, I suspect it's a combination of altitude, hot summer temps and relatively cold water that just spell disaster for a nice finish. The finish and the wood just expand and contract at different rates and I'm not sure there's anything much I can do about it but be vigilant w/ the bottle of nail polish (or clear epoxy). I'm kind of suspecting that bomb casts w/ heavy baits really isn't doing them much good either. I do like toothmarks in them however...
S. |
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| The bait in the photo above is an old bait. For a short time novak sold some baits that had a primer issue. The grey primer tells me the above bait is one of them. Novak told me he switched to a different primer and realized after selling baits with the new primer some of them were cracking. He replaced one of mine and I have had no problems with it. He puts on a heavy very hard clearcoat now also. If I were the guy above and missourimuskyhunter I would contact novak to have them replaced. I'm sure he would gladly do so.
Scott W. |
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Posts: 136
Location: Chicago | The pick of the bait was brand new that i got off of ebay with three other ones last year. I also have a 10" jointed crank bait, that did the same thing. The other Novaks are fine, when that bait cracked he stopped selling them on ebay. Thats why i didnt get a chance to tell him what happened to the bait. Does anybody have his email address? What are my chances of getting a replacment since he doesn't makes these anymore? |
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Posts: 1316
Location: Lebanon,Mo | thanks for all the info guys. i got a hold of mr. novak and is taking care of me. guys like that need to be mentioned more often. |
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Posts: 2112
Location: The Sportsman, home, or out on the water | Good customer service goes a long way. Happy to hear he made things right, like alot of the guys in the biz. |
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| Novak can be reached at [email protected] |
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Posts: 1529
| it sounds like the maker is a stand up guy. he will take care of things. ya cant fault that . there are so many variables in b8making. woods, paints action, water temps alone can affect a baits action |
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | I've had that happen on a few baits I make too. It's funny how one will be fine and another will peal like a banana. I wonder if it has more to do with the grain of the wood and how well it took the primer.
I've changed primers to one that really soaks in so we'll see how it works this weekend. Brrrrrrrrrrrr! |
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Posts: 399
Location: Burton, Ohio | Some of the baits that I started playing with had some chipping problems. The common demoninator in those was the grey primer. It was an automotive grade. I sanded it smooth for the first nice coat of paint. For some reason it did not bond well . I think that it was because that it was so smooth. I took it down to 320. almost to smooth for the bond. Other times it would bond good. I decided to drop the primer coat also. Not worth the risk.
At work I am also the finisher. There are times I have to finish 20 foot long conference tables. The finish we use is a conversion varnish with a catalyst hardner. Through the many series of build up coats you must microsand the coats betweeen to get the bond with the previous coat. I started to do that with the lures and it seemed to help. The second thing is that will some epoxy's they seem to be very brittle. and chippy. I tried a model airplane hobby store epoxy. The brandname is the hobby store's own stores name. It doesn't really have a manufactues name on it. The one thing about this epoxy is that it has a little give in. It is not like a soft finish but seems to be more forgiving and has some give. Has anybody had any similiar observations with the epoxy they are using? I do notice that the set time has alot to do with it. The longer the set the more forgiving it is. The shorter time the opposite.
The woods. That is a good subject. I have seen lures when baits splits with the water penetration. the fibers of the wood swell and like freezing water. Alot of pressure and something has to give. At work in the cabinet shop when we get our paychecks and head out for the weekend we turn down the heat. When get back at it on monday I am amazed how much the wood joints will open from the cold. As it gets warm again they close right up. |
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| Yes I agree, I make large heavy gliders out of maple. There is no way to prevent the clear from cracking unless you put on a bunch of thick coats of clear. I agree some of the best bait makers in the world like Crane and others make baits w/ a really thin clear coat that will most likely crack your first time out, its just the way it is if your main goal is making a bait w/ great action. And those are light baits!! Heavier baits obviously are more prone to crack. Some of the high end makers like HR and others put on a bunch of coats of clear which the consumer will have to pay for but I find that you won't get consistent action on every bait unless you put on atleast 5-6 light coats. You then must have to make your diameter of your bait smaller to begin with to compensate for the thick coat you plan on putting on. I'm still amazed that the Weagle makers claim there bait will never crack or get hook rash. Maybe they have found a secret clear? I hate Wood but wouldn't think about throwing anything else. haha  |
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Posts: 941
Location: Freedom, WI | On the epoxy thing there is an epoxy that cures fast and is hard and flexible but is costly ($160 a gallon). Tried envirotex and thought it was to hard and chipped also ETIs crystal sheen and it yellows in the sun. Went to Steebar (heard it was made for them by ETI) because it was clearer and better. Since spring switched to what I am using now and is made for making wood boats water proof. If I find something better I will try it but it would be tough to beat it. |
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| Weagle doesn't claim that their bait's finish won't get hook rash or crack, it's another maker that makes a weagle lookalike. I personally don't believe it for a minute. There's just no way a finish is going to hold up indefinity to the extreme conditions a baits finish is subjected to. Good marketing is all, or is it, putting a lifetime guarantee on a baits finish could end up being very costly for the maker. |
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| this is what I was refering to about the weagle.
http://muskie.outdoorsfirst.com/board/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=26...
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| If you go to muskiemojo's website you will see the maker does not claim they will not get hook rash. I have several weagles and I can tell you they do. As far as cracking I personally have not had that happen to mine but it's not to say someone's didn't. I think every bait maker has had a bait or two crack. No big deal if you deal with a maker that will make things right like novak, beaver, bikini and some others. There is a maker that was selling on ebay that claims a lifetime guarantee on their baits stating they will never hook rash or crack. |
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Posts: 2378
| That's right. I will not guarantee that a bait will not hook rash for life. That would be one stupid claim, and I would be replacing a lot of baits for people.
I will say that the clear I use is very hard and I have heard of only one or two baits that have had problems beyond mormal wear and tear.
If you have one, please contact me as I will stand behind my work. And hearing about problem baits just helps me make them better. |
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Posts: 32886
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | What Luke COULD guarantee is that his baits CATCH FISH! Muskies/Weagles/Wabulls, all the same same. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | No hook rash on a bait? The bait must not have any hooks then, or it is a bucktail!
Mike |
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| American Hardwood Lures makes divers out of rock maple and even ironwood. They hold up fine in my experience and dive DEEP. |
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