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Posts: 7119
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Seems as though the "Star Tribune" thread was getting a bit out of hand, and as much as I hate to muzzle opinions, that thread was getting no where positive, very fast.
Why not do this: lets start a list of concrete things that can be done to PROACTIVELY promote C&R. Please use this thread to express ideas that can move a larger amount of anglers towards the C&R ethic.
*and one more thing: if we cant think of more ideas to promote c&r than we do things to fight about within the muskie community, what does that say about us as a whole?
**and btw, I get off easy on suggestions; mine is to start a discussion on MuskieFIRST where we can discuss suggestions in an measured, adult, positive thinking fashion. |
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Posts: 28
| I say we start a task force. Patrolling the waters (with trolling rods out of course), in full riot gear. No need for violence, we can use pepper spray.
Edited by Da country kid 9/1/2004 1:57 PM
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| Good point Slamr.
This is a tough one. People have different positions on this sport. Many just want a mantle piece. I am not one for anything but C&R. Proactive is the right way to approach this but it is an up hill battle. It is like trying to convert a Deomcrat into a Republican or vise versa..... |
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Posts: 303
Location: Valentine, NE USA | I'm probably wasting the money but, I've started putting a short brochure explaining "Why & How"...
I'd be just tickled pink if we, as manufacturers - large and small, could come up with something standardized/inexpensive to mail out with our consumer-direct orders.
Obviously, it'll get tossed along with the packaging but, if people see the SAME message - often enough - from EVERYBODY they do business with....maybe we can affect a change.
Just my 2 cents worth
Brian Sanger
SLM
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| If you need some financial backing on your idea, I would be happy to chip in. Let me know. |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | Education is absolutely critical.
A whole lot of my "first timer" clients ask the ever popular question very early in the trip, almost always before the boat is on the water; "how big does it have to be too keep it."
I actually love to hear this question because it allows me to explain all of my views on why catch and release is vital to the fishery. You would have no idea how many people have had their interest piqued by musky fishing that have no knowledge of many things we take for granted, or consider common knowledge.
The first such thing is the age of the fish. Most people have no idea how old twenty plus pound fish are. They think they are born at 3' and just keep getting bigger by the day. I always stress how long it takes to replace the 45 incher you may take out of the lake. I had a father and a 11 year old son out Sunday. The 11 year old had a follow from a mid forty inch fish, when I told him the fish was older than he was he was in absolute shock.
The second thing I like to stress is the population density of the fish. Again most think that there is an endless supply of muskies, or what I like to call "the one behind every weed stalk mentality." When they find out that a good population of adult muskies is one per acre they are amazed.
I always stress the abundance of panfish for table fare. Selling people on the fact that muskies are not eating fish is not all that difficult.
I always stress the importance of digital cameras and/or polaroids. These first timers and relative "newbies" really want to show of their catches, they are #*^@ proud of them and they should be. If they can release the fish and have some immediate bragging material they are happy.
You would have no idea how few people even yet today know that there are reprodutions available. They think the only way they can get a mount is to cart the fish to the taxidermist. I have done a whole lot of advertising for Joe Fittante's reproductions in my boat.
Lastly, I always make sure to let them know that the choice is theirs, keep it or release it, its up to them. I have yet to have to arm wrestle with anyone once the fish is in the net. And after making that choice "on their own", it will be easier for them to arrive at the same decision over and over again in the future. |
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Posts: 32958
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I have been involved in the sport for a very long time, and can remember well when ALL legal muskies caught around here were harvested.
I was, am, and always will be a part of the original effort to promote the CPR educational community in the Muskie world. What we REALLY are asking is how to handle the educational process so as to not create a negative image of those who propose the CPR ethic, and how to bring the average angler into the fold. It comes down to the general principles of working positively with the public, carefully promotiong our ideas while educating as to why those ideas have merit. Confrontation doesn't work well, and never will.
We collectively have come a very long way in the last 30 years. Almost 90% of the muskies caught in a major number of the available Muskie waters are now released. That is impressive! Can we do better? Sure. Can we work closely with the fisheries management people to promote the programs they feel would be beneficial to producing trophy Muskies in the waters they manage? Sure. Can we encourage more waters are stocked with Muskies? Sure. All of this and more is possible, but only if we attempt these tasks from a base position of reason and reality. We do NOT own the waters or the fish in them, those belong to EVERYONE, and one sees laws passed that meet the management strategies and political atmosphere of the day under which those waters are managed. If we behave in an extreme manner, we will be considered a minority and irrelevant. Ask anyone who promoted the 50" limit up here, it isn't as easy as saying "Because we say so!" to the general public's questioning.
The potential failure here is elitism as much as ignorance, confrontation and anger as much as accidental capture.
The 'wooden nickle' chip was handed out at the Muskie Symposium in Lacrosse, Wisconsin in April of 1984 and a very early MWC Championship on Tonka. Tuffy was a sponsor, and we were very concious of the need to forward the mentality of CPR back then. I guess we figured buying a guy a beer and talking CPR over was a great way to start.
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| Educate the general fishing public
Regulate higher minimum size limits like prime Canadian waters have |
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Posts: 699
Location: Hugo, MN | Advertise in the DNR fishing regulations handbook. Or get a special section on CPR added. It may say something in there now but I think it would be effective to have Three pictures as a kind of center insert each in glossy so they stick out over the black and white of the rest of the book. The first picture of a guy with a hookset pose, rod bent over, etc. you get the idea. With the Caption CATCH in big bold capital letters across the top. The next page should be a picture of a woman with a correct hold on a fish, no bogus grips, etc. and of course the caption PHOTO Then, the third page a photo of a release by a third person maybe a teenager or grandpa and the big words RELEASE. Then on the fourth page we could have a typical literature deal explaining CPR principles and why it is important. Wow, I really like this idea!! Anyone looking for a marketing rep??? |
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Posts: 91
Location: Wausau | I think you have to somewhat follow in the footsteps of the Quality Deer Management. I think they have done a great job of showing people that if they let something go and let them grow another year they will get bigger. Unfortunatly you need concrete pictures and studies to sway most people. You also need to change the attitiudes of some of the northern WI sport shops and bait shops. NO MORE DEATH FREEZERS. The second thing is educating people on replica mounts versus a real skin mount and what they look like after 10 years, try to get these same bait shops to have a display on their walls showing a 10 year old Fittante rep and a 10 year old shin mount so they can see what the difference is and what the costs involved are, when you put it into dollars and cents most people listen.
Edited by bchunter26 9/1/2004 3:42 PM
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Posts: 561
Location: Monee, Illinois | Okay I belive in the C & R practice and I was reading the tread that was fozen. I have one problem, I have been musky fishing seriously for about 2 years. I was a bass fisherman. I know how we all talk about C & R and get upset when someone kills a musky. There are also some of us that think Carp, Bluegills and other fish are just crap fish and its okay to "Kill those" but then what about the Carp fisherman. We look at them and say I can't belive he is Carp fishing and at the same time he is looking at us throwing these lures that could kill a small child and thinks we are crazy. Is the Carp fisherman not a fisherman, or the bass fisherman who catch's a musky and is upset because the musky destroyed his $4 lure but still lets the fish go to the best of his ability, is he not a fisherman. Or the crappie fisherman who does not like musky but love the taste of crappie, is he not a fisherman. So what gives us the right to kill carp or bullhead or even Bass. Because Carp are "bad", bass are "stunted". I am not saying that Carp are good for lakes or bluegills or such but they are still fish. If bluegills are overrunning a lake we put musky or pike in to decrease the population. Is this right? The DNR tell's us this is right so the bluegills will get larger so fisherman can catch them. I have seen on the water some "Musky Guys" get a bass or a pike on there line and treat the fish like they are red-headed step child's, but a lot of those are the same ones that pick on people how they treat a musky. I have never killed a Carp, Dog fish, Bluegill or any other fish unless I was going to eat the fish. I catch a bass and treat it like it was a musky, I catch a pike and I take pride in how I release that fish. I think we all have to remember we are ALL FISHERMAN, and if we treat EVER fish like it was a musky and understand that other FISHERMAN enjoy the sport just as much as we do if not more, we will all enjoy the waters so much more.
That is my 2 cents I had to say it
great fishing and have fun on the water
pgaschulz
P.S. Has anyone ever eating Carp? If so how does it taste? |
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Posts: 303
Location: Valentine, NE USA | Carp isn't too bad, I've eaten it smoked.
Then again, I like Braunschweiger.
A slice of cheese on my oatmeal cookies is always good, too....
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| I agree with PGA Schulz for sure. I know some out there don't treat "other fish" with the respect we give muskies..I think all fish should be treated fairly and respectfully.
I think education, like just talking to others that don't share our views of C&R about how we all can benefit from releasing fish, not killing them is a good start. I think we all need to take a more active roll at the DNR Hearings to try and get min. size limits raised. I know I am guilty of not attending the ones here in Madison, which in turn, got our size limit raised to 45" on the chain. And last nite, if I had been a catch and kill guy, I could have thumped a beautiful 46"er I got...instead the thrill of the release and knowing next year it could easily be a 48" was well worth releasing it...We hold the key to the future, our input and strength in numbers is the only way this great sport will continue to thrive. Next spring, wherever you live, attend the hearings if you have them. Also, I LOVE the idea of the Musky Stamp, Pete Maina and others are trying to promote. With limited funding headed towards musky stocking we need something like now!
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| Put a section on your website dedicated to the reasoning why its important to the fishery as well as proper handling and release techniques.
There's no part of this site that does that. Yeah, someone can go search all the threads, but many won't.
Also as mentioned, include C&R card in each bait that's sold. |
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Posts: 2091
Location: Stevens Point, WI | Maybe we can petition some of the newspapers to put in an article from all the members of MuskieFirst stressing the importance of catch and release. We could have a MuskieFirst kids fishing day or two and teach them proper handling and releasing skills. How about special emphasis at the show booths this coming winter, maybe flyers or other media. |
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Posts: 7119
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | PLEASE everyone take this the right way....BUT, we dont have the manpower for just about ANYTHING MORE than we're trying to do right now on MuskieFIRST. So as much as we will SUPPORT any well thought-out ideas and plans that promote greater dissemination of the C&R ethic, to offer to lead any new efforts would be very irresponsible of us. I have about 10 things that I havent taken care of for the site, that I can never find the time for, Steve Worrall is running like a madman doing 3 or 4 different real jobs right now, and Steve Jonesi....well he's Jonesi. I can tell you we'll put something together, but then we won't be able to do it, then nothing will happen, and we will be irresponsible in offering to do this for the public. |
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Posts: 149
| Well I don't know what your organizational structure is within MF and what the mission plan covers - and I'm not asking to know, but you may considering looking right in front of you for help.
I know you have some technical talent that visits this board that could possibly lend assistance. |
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Posts: 663
| I'm a guy who works in one of the northern Wisconsin tackle shops. Our store is very active in promoting catch & release and frequently point out the advantages of reproductions to folks. As Norm stated a lot of people are not aware that the option of replicas exists. We have a number of Lax reproductions in the store and it is easy to show people the benefits. When people ask the "how big does it have to be" question I give them a truthful answer to the body of water they are fishing but quickly add that most of us no longer kill (yes I use that word) muskies and give a quick plug for CPR. Most people initiate further questions and it gives me a good opportunity to promote the release ethic.
Also, this past summer we ran a series of weekly seminars for tourists. A portion of each seminar was dedicated to safe musky handling, release, and the benefits of CPR. Ron Lax even provided us with a model of a musky that he made out of a flexible plastic like material. This model was about 40" long and had flexible gill covers and weighed approximately what a musky of that size would be. Let me tell you people were absolutely fascinated with it and I think we were able to pass along some good information. I've said this before, an awful lot of non-musky fishermen are very intimidated by handling even a small musky and if you take the time to explain a few things to them and demystify the situation they are eager to learn. Now, dealing with some of the "old timers" is a different story and it's a fine line between trying to convince them not to whack a fish and just ticking them off. In those cases the best I can do is to politely explain my position and ask them to consider the future benefit to their heirs if they let that fish go. Sometimes that will at least get a positive response.
Not everybody is in a position like I am to be able to do some educating on an almost daily basis but if all you guys try to pass it along to others in a friendly and non-threatening manner you'll be doing the sport a lot of good. I don't worry so much about musky fishermen but the folks who only fish once a year on vacation. When you speak to a neigbor or maybe co-worker who's headed to musky country try and see if you can engage them in a little conversation about it and see what happens. I'll bet you'll be happy with the results. |
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Posts: 1137
Location: Holly, MI | Snowcrest 6 - 9/1/2004 3:00 PM
I'm probably wasting the money but, I've started putting a short brochure explaining "Why & How"...
I'd be just tickled pink if we, as manufacturers - large and small, could come up with something standardized/inexpensive to mail out with our consumer-direct orders.
Obviously, it'll get tossed along with the packaging but, if people see the SAME message - often enough - from EVERYBODY they do business with....maybe we can affect a change.
Just my 2 cents worth
Brian Sanger
SLM
Very noble Brian. A honest and true message in your lures (and others) may make a difference. I think a large part of the CPR problem however is we keep preaching to the choir. No one is in the Church pews listening. I mean the people who don't care about CPR are often not Muskie fisherpersons anyway. It is the accidental or the bonus catch from a person fishing for somthing else who can't wait to bring their monster back to town and show it off. Also there is a part of the Muskie fishing crowd who will keep any legal Muskie they catch because it is in their rights and too much CPR pressure only makes them fight back harder to continue their ways.
How about (is this a million dollars?) a simple ad in non ESOX mags that sell thousands of times more issues than the Esox mags. The muskie mags constantly have articles about CPR and how we can do it better or spread the word but only Muskie nuts read them. I'm thinking Field & Stream, In Fisherman, Bass mags, etc. These publications get millions of readers and it might get noticed by a few more people. The page would have to be an eye catcher. A guy holding a giant Ski for a quick pic. He could be quoted as telling how and why he released her. A little conservation talk, a chance to catch her again, etc.
just thinkin' (and trying not to hurt myself) |
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Posts: 663
| Good points about the non-musky focus publications. You're absolutely right about preaching to the choir.
I would also like to see some input to the local newspapers who continue to celebrate dead muskies in their weekly photo sections. These are not just pictures of 12 year olds holding a first musky but both adult tourists and locals with dead fish. I'd be amazed to see some publications take a stand and support a "released only" photo policy.
It would also be great if some chambers of commerce got behind a promotion to support catch and release. Maybe something as simple as a certificate for a released musky or a monthly posting in the papers listing people who had successfully released a musky.
In my opinion this type of pressure would have to come from people outside the area since many of these communities and businesses will only listen to those they perceive as being of financial benefit to them. |
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Posts: 30
Location: England | Hello from the UK,
We don't have Muskies over here  but i've been mad keen on catching Pike for 25 years. In the UK 99.9% of freshwater fish are released after capture, including Pike. This has not always been the case but the Pike Anglers Club of Great Britain has done a tremendous amount of work in educating anglers over the last 27 years and continues to do so.
The only place where this is not the case is the west of Ireland where Pike are gill netted in the name of 'improving' the trout fishing. Up till the mid 90's anglers would travel from all over Europe to fish these waters as they were the finest in all Europe, sadly not any more. Now the Irish economy is suffering in the west ,the trout fishing hasn't improved & the awe inspiring irish pike are no more. You will never convert everyone, selfish & ignorant people will always remain. I think the key is to educate the younger generations. Nowadays anyone seen killing a Pike of 15lbs or over seriously risks ending up in the water.
If you want to preserve your fisheries for the future C&R is the ONLY way. Don't learn the hard way like the Irish are.
All the best
Mick |
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Posts: 66
Location: Wales Wi. | I think sights like this one and bait shops are doing a great job of promoting cpr. Bait shops have more contact with the average fisherman/woman, Muskie sight users are mostly pro cpr already. I believe the future is in educating kids thru release tournaments, even a 10 year old understands what a renewable resource is and what is not when explained to him. Todays kids are the future of the sport and in 20 years there will be no worries. |
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| Here is a quote from the type of guy we need to 'educate', BEFORE they hit the water for muskies. This quote is from a thread on another board about Smallmouth Bass, and in another thread, he's talking about going muskie fishing. It was in response to an angler saying it's a bad idea to harvest too many adult Smallmouth bass because they take so long to get to trophy size.
'TPffft! Catch and release should only be practiced on waters that need protection. Besides, the biologists who monitor fish populations will regulate those waters that need it.
It's my opinion this catch and release idea is promoted primarily by those who make money off the resource, then parroted by some who have heard the mantra. If it was up to the promoters, they would not allow anyone else to bring home a meal of fish.'
This guy shows the scope of the problem! Nothing is ever easy, I guess.
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Posts: 663
| Yes, the problem is much bigger than most of us imagine who practice C&R on a regular basis. Over the weekend I heard of 4 killed fish in my immediate area. Two by the same angler who kept one for the wall and one (39") for a fish fry. |
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