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| Just wondering what some of you guys would think about this idea. The Revo Toro series has been a very popular series for Abu Garcia. They've held up well seem to have the right stuff for musky fishermen. This past year they trimmed down the line cutting out a number of reels that just doesn't make sense to many of us. After all, they already have the parts, gears, etc. and that frustrated a lot of potential customers who have now gone elsewhere to fill in those gaps. At this time Abu does not have a one piece machined frame round reel that many musky anglers like. Besides the obvious strength of a machined frame vs. a poly low profile frame, it seems like the traditional "round" reel is still a popular option.
Here's my idea that I would like to submit for your consideration. How about a machined round reel (one piece frame) that contained the gearing and general mechanism that is currently used in the Revo Toro series? I would suggest the standard 5:1 range for starters and possibly make some other gear options available if that was a success. Abu has not had a machined frame reel that was popular with us musky guys since the Morrum was discontinued a good number of years ago. If it could be priced somewhere in the same range as the current Revo Toro series or at least competitive with Daiwa Luna and Shimano Calcutta B, I think they'd have a winner.
Well, what do you think? |
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| also submit to make it in a left handed version! They got rid of everything else in lefty models except for the winch. |
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| Oops forgot one other thing on my wish list. Would love to see the Made In Sweden badge proudly displayed instead of a peel off "made in China, Taiwan, etc." label on the reel foot. |
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| Ronix - 4/18/2012 9:34 AM
also submit to make it in a left handed version! They got rid of everything else in lefty models except for the winch.
Agreed! |
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Location: Sun Prairie, WI | I'd go ahead with your idea, Pete. It can't hurt. |
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Location: Lake "y" cause lake"x" got over fished | Ronix - 4/18/2012 9:34 AM
also submit to make it in a left handed version! They got rid of everything else in lefty models except for the winch.
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Did they get rid of the HS in lefty too?? |
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| Yes, left hand is only available in the Revo Toro Winch right now. |
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| gtp888 - 4/18/2012 9:44 AM
I'd go ahead with your idea, Pete. It can't hurt.
Well, if I were in charge it would be in the works now. Just seeing if a number of guys like the idea. I've already mentioned this idea to Reelman who seemed to like it but I don't think a large company like Abu Garcia or for that matter Pure Fishing (Abu distributor in the US) would tool up based on one guys "wish list". |
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Location: Sun Prairie, WI | Pete Stoltman - 4/18/2012 9:53 AM gtp888 - 4/18/2012 9:44 AM I'd go ahead with your idea, Pete. It can't hurt. Well, if I were in charge it would be in the works now. Just seeing if a number of guys like the idea. I've already mentioned this idea to Reelman who seemed to like it but I don't think a large company like Abu Garcia or for that matter Pure Fishing (Abu distributor in the US ) would tool up based on one guys "wish list". Check your PM. |
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| A great idea you have and I'd buy as soon as it was on the market as I'm looking for exactly what you are talking about. |
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Location: Black Creek, WI | Pete, I like your idea. Not sure why they discontinued the Morrums... but I've still got 2 in my main line-up after 10+ years of abuse. Would love to see a similar model become available again. Perhaps sell it to ABU as a reel to compete with the Calcutta 400TE but with a better pricepoint (that of a Luna)? Oh... and ABU still needs to consider putting bigger, badder, stronger handles on their reels. The Revo Toro handle was a step in the right direction... but still not powerful/durable enough for most musky nuts. Good Luck! |
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Location: Okoboji | Pete Stoltman - 4/18/2012 9:39 AM
Oops forgot one other thing on my wish list. Would love to see the Made In Sweden badge proudly displayed instead of a peel off "made in China, Taiwan, etc." label on the reel foot.
indeed |
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Location: Mt. Zion, IL | I would like to see a round reel with an oversized gearbox similar to the Toro. This reel should include a backup pawl as well as IAR bearing that can be replaced by a technician without replacing the sideplate. The problem with the C3's IAR bearing is that after much abuse, the insert starts to work out of the sideplate. The sideplates also need to be machined or cast so that they are one piece. I agree 100% on the 5.1:1 range with a line pickup of about 25" per turn.
Make the reel with both centrifugal and magnetic brakes so that you satisfy those that like either. This reel should have a one piece spool that has the bearings housed as close to the edge of the spool so that the spool does not flex into the frame. This is a common problem with the C3's if the drag is tightened too much. Use hardened stainless steel main and pinion gears and use no plastic gearing in the reel.
Keep the double handle as an option for those that have smaller hands (wives/girlfriends/kids), but include a true power handle, not just one that has the same useable length with a different grip.
Maybe I should just design reels... |
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| Pete, One quick correction. You make it sound like the Toro has a poly frame, that is not the cast as it is an aluminum frame.
I love your idea of a round reel with the oversized gears and it's been brought up already. I don't know if anything is in the works right now but I would like one like you describe for myself also! I would also love it to have a "made in Sweden" logo on it but when you look at the cost to manufacture anything in Sweden you will know why that is very doubtful to happen. If people think it's expensive to make something in the USA they should look at what it cost to be made in Sweden.
ryan, magnetic brakes in a musky reel? I don't see them being neccessary with the heavy baits we throw. For a bass guy trying to tweak his settings throwing a 1/4oz bait they are nice but throwing a 2oz+ bait I just don't see their need. Stainless ears may have their place in certain settings but they are almost impossible to make as smooth as brass gears. And the number of brass gears that go bad is so minimal as to not even be a concern. The only plastic "gearing" in a toro (or any other Abu baitcast reel) is used to turn the worm gear. Actually nylon (plastic) gears are much better in this use than a metal gear. We've played with metal gear in the worm gear and found that there is no way of keeping them quite when they are turning at about 20,000 RPM's during a cast. The nylon gear also forms a little "safety valve" per sae in that if something gets stuck in the line guide such as a stick, piece of rock, YOUR FINGER!, etc. the nylon gear will strip out. This way the only damage is to a $2.00 nylon gear. If the gear was metal something else would break or bend, as something has to give, like the spool, the frame, YOUR FINGER! I am not aware of any reel manufacture that uses a metal gear for the line guide.
The double handle on the Toro is longer than most regular double handles and is basically the same length as a power handle. Lengthening the power handle will really not do much of anything as you will have to move your hand more so the added torgue will be lost because of more movement of your hand. IMHO the advantage of a power handle is not the length but the larger paddle so you can get more of your fingers on the handle. |
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Location: Mt. Zion, IL | reelman - 4/18/2012 11:33 AM
ryan, magnetic brakes in a musky reel?
To make it more versatile for saltwater applications as well as "umbrella/Alabama" rigs for bass anglers. Musky anglers will not see many reels specifically geared towards them from Abu, if they continue the way they have for years.
We've played with metal gear in the worm gear and found that there is no way of keeping them quite when they are turning at about 20,000 RPM's during a cast.
I think your numbers are off here. At 20,000 RPM (measured at the idler gear) with the Revo Toro 60 with an average cast of 2 seconds, your bait would travel just under 1/4 mile, if you assume constant speed. The idler gear is about a 4:1 reduction so the spool would be spinning at 80,000 RPM. This seems unreal to me to have the spool spin at 80,000 RPM.
Stainless ears may have their place in certain settings but they are almost impossible to make as smooth as brass gears.
Not true as I work in a facility that works with gearing every day, smoothness is in the design more than the material.
The double handle on the Toro is longer than most regular double handles and is basically the same length as a power handle. Lengthening the power handle will really not do much of anything as you will have to move your hand more so the added torgue will be lost because of more movement of your hand. IMHO the advantage of a power handle is not the length but the larger paddle so you can get more of your fingers on the handle.
I realize that, but the trend is longer is better with both crank handles and rods. How many guys add handles from larger reels to increase the power in any given reel? Quite a few more than you would think. Lengthening the handle reduced the amount of resistance for pulling large baits. Why are some guys adding Trinidad handles on their brand new Tranx? Because it has a longer handle. |
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| AS far as the RPM's I was implying that the spool turned that fast, not the idler gear, but the spool has a nylon gear on it also. Honestly I don't know how many RPM's the spool and idler gear are turning but it's a lot. I've heard estimates from 15,000 up to 30,000 RPM's for the spool at the bigining of the cast. Regardless of the actual RPM we can agree that it's really fast! And at those speeds the metal gears sound like a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs! I imagine that it could be done with metal gears if tolorances were ultra tight and the quality of the material was top notch but for something that's used in the outdoor enviorment do we really want that tight of tolorances? Plus there would be no advantage to metal gears that I can think of.
You obviously know more about gearing than I do if that's what you do for a living but I've never felt a stainless gear that was as smooth as a brass gear in the same reel. Again it might be possible to do but at what expense and what would the benefit be to use stainless? Other than the gears in the original C4's I can just about count on one hand the number of ears that I've seen go bad. I've seen a lot of other things happen that people say is bad gears but when you open them up to look at them it's almost always something other than the gears.
I guess the longer handle thing is a personal thing. I've used some way longer than normal handles in testing and I did not like them in the least. With a longer handle your not increasing the power of the reel, you are just making the cranking easier because of the longer "lever" attached to the gears. But that comes with the cost of your arm having to do more work because your hand is traveling a further distance every revolution. Which of those is more important is a personal thing in my opinion. I will also say that in dealing with people everyday on these things most people do not want a longer handle, or at least they never mention it. On this particular web-site it seems that many people do but remember that the people on this site are not the average musky angler. And for those who are taking it to the extreme there are options after market they can look into. It's like a truck with a 454 engine in it. For some it's the greatest thing and they will use the increased power, but for most people it's just burning extra gas for no good reason. |
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Location: Norway | They should bring back the Tournament Pro model, with those improvements mentioned. I have 2 and I love them. They also sit lower on the rod, than regular C series.
Michael |
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| Pikopath - 4/18/2012 3:15 PM
They should bring back the Tournament Pro model, with those improvements mentioned. I have 2 and I love them. They also sit lower on the rod, than regular C series.
Michael
IMHO the Tournament Pro series would require a vastly different thumb bar and clutch mechanism to hold up to our fishing. |
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Location: Latitude 41.3016 Longitude 88.6160 | A lttle bridie told me that ABU will bring out a Salt Water version to the Toro at ICAST that is more refined and more H.D. then the fresh water Toro Reel. |
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Location: Norway | reelman - 4/18/2012 3:29 PM Pikopath - 4/18/2012 3:15 PM They should bring back the Tournament Pro model, with those improvements mentioned. I have 2 and I love them. They also sit lower on the rod, than regular C series. Michael IMHO the Tournament Pro series would require a vastly different thumb bar and clutch mechanism to hold up to our fishing. I can relate to that, that thumbar can suck. The frame and how that reel feels, is superb imo.
But also remember that our pike fishing is with the same gear that you guys use, but still we dont eat thru that many reels...
Michael
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| Pike, I didn't see you were from Norway. Many people over here look at musky fishing as the next extreme sport and see how hard they can do it, that also means they go through gear like mad. |
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Location: Eagan, MN | PIKEMASTER - 4/18/2012 3:29 PM
A lttle bridie told me that ABU will bring out a Salt Water version to the Toro at ICAST that is more refined and more H.D. then the fresh water Toro Reel.
Interesting for sure... did the little birdie happen to say if it will be physically bigger than the 60 size? |
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| reelman - 4/18/2012 11:33 AM
Pete, One quick correction. You make it sound like the Toro has a poly frame, that is not the cast as it is an aluminum frame.
Ok, thanks for the correction. |
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