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Posts: 1636
| Myself and some friends are going to try to raise the size limit from 36" to 42"-48" on the Fox River. Does anyone know the proper steps to go about doing this?
If you could help us and are in favor of this move, please PM me your name and the muskies inc club you belong to if any. Any help is much appreciated. Here is a link for more information:
http://reelfisherman.com/viewtopic.php?t=404
Edited by Reelwise 3/23/2007 11:37 AM
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Posts: 1636
| Has anyone here ever made an effort to get a size limit changed? Any little thing you can share will help. Thanks again! |
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Posts: 327
| I agree with you bro !!! PM Sent !!! |
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Posts: 2691
Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | I am in with you. PM sent |
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| Not sure what the procedures are in Illinois...if you can get support right off the bat from your DNR office for that system you have half the battle won already...they would also be able to steer you in the right dirction on what it will take to propose the changes.
Good luck and feel free to shout this way if there's anything we can do over here.
Dennis |
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | I have a bit of experience in WI getting limits raised, I don't know how pertinent these procedures are to Illinois. Dennis is 100% right about having DNR support. It also helps to have a lake association or chamber of commerce support.
If I can be of any help feel free to give me a shout.
[email protected]
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| The Fox River Valley MI Chapter 39 Club will help you, PM sent.
Steve |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If there is any way we can help from the Editor's desk at MuskieFIRST, just let lambeau, Slamr, or me know. |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Definately make sure the your biologist supports it! If they dont support it you might have a little trouble. But if you can show lots of support from clubs and fisherman in the area that can help. I'm all for it, good luck! |
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Location: Northern Wisconsin | if theres any way i can help i will. |
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| Having fished the skees of the mighty Fox for nearly 10 years, I agree it would be great to have an enforceable size limit on the riv. But anyone that is familiar with this fishery realizes that the people you really are trying to get to put the fish back are the ones who blatanly disregard the regulations for ANY fish in the first place, including smallies, walleyes, etc. It could be argued that most of the knuckleheads who are keeping fish wouldn't be able to read the signs posted, wouldn't have a valid fishing license, would pop you in the jaw if you told them to put a fish back.... you get the picture.
A big push for an increase in limits is only going to draw MORE attention to a fishery that is overtaxed as it is. The real problem is not limits. Its the simple fact that there are not that many fish in there. In my opinion a MUCH better plan of attack would be to have intelligent discussions with the DNR to add the Fox as a waterway that is actually managed as a musky fishery. Lord knows with all the forage in there it could support a lot more fish than what is there. It's no secret that there are muskies in that river (can you believe not too long ago it was???? those were the days). But with the advent of message boards like these there have been countless fisheries that have been severely impacted by irresponsible distribution of information. R-wise, I know you can relate because there are a bunch of spots down by you that have been murdered in the last hfew years. Remember, the internet is not just for the little circle of friends on these boards. There are hundreds, if not thousands, of lurkers that troll the net for free info on fishing spots. I pretty much gave up these message boards quite awhile ago. But this is an issue that is near and dear to my heart as I know I was part of the group that "discovered" a fishable population in this river over a decade ago. I'm sure I wasn't the first, but whatever, I don't know many who have been hitting it hard out there for too long.
Anyway, what about getting into dicsussions with the DNR to "officially" recognize the Fox R as a legitmate musky fishery and manage it as such. Because currently it is viewed as more of a sidenote on the state's list of musky waters. I'm sure there would be HUGE support from Muskies Inc chapters from all of the suburbs. Hell, I might actually consider joining just for that cause alone. If the riv was managed as a musky fishery it could handle the incedental harvest of fish.
enough with the rant. please keep this civil I don't have time for any bickering...
on the wade |
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| I suggest that you contact Steve [email protected]
The current regulation is 48" from the chain South to the Algonquin dam.
Steve can give you the contact name of the area biologist, who would have to recommend the change. |
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Posts: 8776
| Wade
The river... Well, let's just say that whatever you put in the river is going to get harvested and eaten, no matter how you manage it or what sort of restrictions you put in place. The same folks you are referring to have been raiding the DNR Fyke nets in the middle of the night. You can walk along the shoreline and see stringer after stringer of undersized fish, if they catch it they take it home and eat it, law or no law. They fish it out of season, they seine the friggin thing below the dams, dumping the fish in buckets and take off while their buddies watch from a distance to make sure the police and DNR vehicles aren't around. Some of the DNR guys actually volunteered on their own time, to camp out in a boat all night for a couple nights to try and catch these guys, but you know what? There are too many of them. And what are you going to do? WHAT ARE YOU GOING TO DO? Fine them? And collect the money from WHERE? Take away the fishing license they never bought in the first place? Even if you catch them and arrest them they'll have some public defender who will get them off. I'd love to have a great musky fishery out here, I really would. The river could support it, but the the garbage who are already destroying it would only be destroying a very expensive and slow growing fish instead. Let 'em eat catfish.
Edited by esoxaddict 3/28/2007 12:36 PM
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Do any of you have camera's or video equipment that you could take down with you and when witnessing things like "seineing the friggin things below the dams". Would be tough evidence for a court to refute once the guys were captured. Maybe you need to push for strickter NR punishments. Fines make the honest sportsmen who forget something or do something inadveraintly remeber or educate, fines to the poacher dont mean jack.
Maybe you should just pollute the crap out of the river like the Fox in Depere.....wont be a ton of eating of those fish...if they did you would be able to catch the fyke net theives as they would be glowing in the dark. |
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Posts: 8776
| Mike
They're out there netting in the middle of the night, and they've got lookouts stationed waiting with cell phones, so by the time the DNR and/or the local police departmets get close they have either fled or dumped out the buckets. Our beloved governor gutted the DNR, so they really don't have the money or the personnel to deal with this. A couple wardens actually came to our club meeting a few months back begging for money so they could buy night vision goggles and go out (on their own time, not even getting paid) and try to catch the people doing it. We passed the hat around and did manage to raise enough money for one pair. The main point I was trying to make Mike is that there is so much illegal activity going on (and not just on the river) that it's like trying to stab rusty crayfish with a grill fork -- you might get one once in a while, but there will be 10 to take their place. They have no regard for the local laws, and even less for the fishery. All they see is free food, and they think they are entitled to it.
Edited by esoxaddict 3/28/2007 2:07 PM
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Posts: 8776
| As far as the cameras and video equipment idea, I have heard (no way to verify this) that a few people tried that and wound up being threatened, had their cars vanadalized, one guy got beat up pretty bad. |
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| Addict,
That is EXACTLY my point. I've seen the cast nets filled with every species from the river. Its disgusting what tehse people do to our resource. Thanks to Blago the GREAT, we now have hardly any DNR staff to help. But thats a whole different talk show. I've fished the river now for over 17 years. Only chased the skees for about 10. In my opinion the quality of the fishery is on a severe decline. Not only the skees, but smallies too. Sure, if you can read a river well and put your time in, in out of the way places, you'll get into quality fish. But the overall quality of the fishery in my opinion has taken a severe beating in the last 5 years or so. Oddly enough this coincides with the influx of the meathogs. I hate to sit here and gripe about the injustices we see on the riv all the time.
My point is that if the fox was managed and stocked properly there would be plenty of fish to go around. Hey, people bonk fish all the time in Wisconsin (heeheehee...jk -or- not?) and they still have plenty of fish to go around for everyone to C&R. The problem is right now, no one at the DNR really seems to know or care how many fish are swimming in the riv. Its just a byproduct of the stockings at the chain, shabbona (not since the barrier was fixed), and holiday. If they had an established goal of fish per acre it would help immensely. does anybody have any idea how many muskies inhabit the Montgomery pool? How bout S Elgin? Batavia? N Aurora? etc, etc.... I'm of the opinion that there are very, very few with respect to total surface acreage of water. Sure you can go out and have a day of a lifetimie where you catch 4 in an hour from the exact same spot, but then you may go the next 6 months and not even smell a fish.
All I'm saying is that if this is going to be for real, maybe some serious consideration should be given to increasing the number of fish in the river. Maybe even get permitted by the DNR for a club sponsored stocking program. There are alot of dudes out there that would be MORE than happy to buy a few fish and drop them in the river. Advanced fish, not fry, or fingerlings. I'll tell ya what, put me down for a dozen.... THAT'S how we can make it great. Not sure if you've ever had the honor of landing a 48" female in february.....but I have, twice, and I'll tell you what, they get fat. Absurdly fat. More fish = more opportunity for everyone. Maybe then we'll all be able to spread out a bit and not be forced to pound the hell out of the same #*^@ 5 spots on the river every year....
on the wade OUT |
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Posts: 8776
| I think we need to clean it up first. And I don't just mean the water itself! I don't like to gripe either, but when I see and hear this stuff going on, it gets under my skin. Seeing what arguably could be one of the greatest fisheries in the region being destroyed by people who don't belong here in the first place, and do nothing except ruin whatever neighborhoods they move into and the surrounding areas along with it? There's a reason why I tell people the entire northern part of IL is a sewer...
Wade, I'd encourage you to think about joining Muskies Inc. The clubs are what's driving the stocking efforts and keeping the fisheries alive right now, and they need people with passion, who love to fish in IL, and want to make a difference. If you spend some time on the forums are read about what the different chapters are up to, and what those guys are doing on their own time to help the future of musky fishing, it makes you really appreciate the value of those sorts of organizations. Not sure where you're at, but the FRV chapter meets in Hoffman Estates on the third Wednesday of every month at 7:30 PM, you should come to a meeting and check us out.
www.frvmuskie.com |
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| Addict,
I am all too familiar with your frustration. I can go on and on about the political side of the people behind our frustration. Our country will not change for the better until our elected officials listen more to the MAJORITY. Our country has turned so dam politically correct that we are facilitating the colonization of OUR own land. Its sad that really there is nowhere to hide from this issue. Even our most beloved past times are affected.
As far as Muskies Inc. I appreciate the invite. I've made my decision not to join for my own reasons. I appreciate all that MI does for the resource. I just don't have the time to dedicate to it. And I also don't have the time to sift through the political stuff and ego thing. I've been around this racket for a few years and MI is just not my thing. Alot of guys love it, but it ain't my deal bro....
anyhoot, another paltry nickel's worth of ramblings from the wade.... |
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Posts: 1636
| I'm glad another guy that fishes the river has stepped in. I love it how the people that fish the river all year long and have been fishing it for many years have a way different view on the rivers fishery than those that fish it only during the summer and in the same spot over and over again. The Fox River is not loaded like some like to think. I just hope we can talk the state into properly managing it. I'd do it myself, but thats not possible. Thanks again everyone for showing support, especially people that don't even fish the river! If anyone that fishes the river would like to talk more on the subject, please PM me. We can talk through PM or by phone. 630 885 4732 (please leave a message) |
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Location: Northern Wisconsin | all this is true, a couple years ago my dad and i were wading around the river and we went past a couple who had a stringer of about 6-7 nice smallies sitting on shore, thats not the worst part. they then ask us as we walk by if we want the fish to eat and we say no and they toss them all back into the river DEAD. below most dams you can find groups keeping everything they catch. these people are are main problems.
changing the size limit is a good idea but for those who keep fish will always keep fish and the rest usually know to release musky if they are lucky enough to catch one on the river.
btw, anyone fishing the river lately? |
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Thats a tough situation Jeff. A really crappy situation as well. Really sad to hear that the DNR got gutted. Has there ever been any talk about having undercover guys? I understand what you mean about stabbing a rusty with a pitch fork though, but if you guys could get some heavier punishments into place and manage to lay the book to a handfull of people I would bet you could put a dent into the crime. I think if you set up some sting operations with some undercover guys you would have to be able to catch some.
Good luck with the uphill battle you guys got down there, hope you can figure something out!
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Posts: 214
Location: Central Iowa | These problems sound familiar...we are dealing with pretty much the same issues here in Iowa with bucket fisherman that keep everything and disregard the law as far as limits and length limits are concerned, people that think Muskies are Pike, etc. Its very frustrating to live in states where the fishing general public is so uneducated as compared to MN or WI. We started a Muskies Inc chapter in central here recently to try to battle some of these issues but after a couple meetings with our DNR already we've learned its going to be an uphill battle. Nothing will change if we don't speak up though, and all you can hope for is to get enough people rallied around your cause to make a difference. Good luck. |
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