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Posts: 32
| What impact do you feel fishing TV shows have had on our sport?
Check out this article:
http://bass.outdoorsfirst.com/articles/11.25.2008/1861/Bassin'.Blog...
Edited by Fishing Fanatics 11/25/2008 8:32 AM
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Posts: 2384
Location: On the X that marks the mucky spot | The Good:
There's been a lot of chances to learn from some of the best anglers in the world. When I was a kid I used to pull my parents out of church as fast as I could so we could get home in time for In-Fishermen. In those days guys like the Linders, Bill Dance, and Rollin Martin were my heroes. It's nice to have something to watch in the winter when you need to scratch that itch. Some shows actually teach you something (although the quality has gone down in recent years).
The Bad:
I think that the image that most shows now days portray is that of marketing and chest beating. There's been a "Nascarization" of the fishing world IMOP. I've even heard one TV talking head go so far as to say something to the effect "if you don't fish from a (Brand) boat you really shouldn't be out there." The tournament scene may have had something to do with it, I don't know. Most everything you see on TV now is $50,000 boats and exotic locations. That's a pretty tough connection with most of the fishing public and it may add to some of the disinterest we're seeing. It's the old "I'm not good enough so forget it" thing. I bought in at one time and bought the big boat, had the Nascar shirt, and so on and am swinging back the other way now. I think that line of thinking will get people burned out on fishing (or make them go broke) and then you lose another one from our ranks to the world of "electronic joys".
I guess it's better then nothing, but there's a lot of room for improvement with about 90% of them. |
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Posts: 8782
| I miss the old shows. The Sunday ritual, where it was guys you could relate to, just fishing because they loved fishing. You could learn something because they were talking about what they were doing, and why, fishing in regular places with regular gear. As soon as the last one was over it was off to the lake to experiment with what I learned.
Today, it's just a bunch of sponsors advertising their products through a guy who happens to fish. Underneath all the decals and endorsements, and the "this is the only product that will work" messages, it's still fishing, but...
As for whether its bad for the sport? In some ways it is. There are probably guys who watch that and feel like they're not really fishing unless they have all the best gear (that they can't possibly afford), or they go out to their local lakes and feel like they're not any good at it because they've established some unrealistic ideal of what fishing should be like because of what they see on TV. Some people don't realize what they are watching, how its put together, or that 5 days of filming went into that half hour of action you see on the show.
I think it still gives some exposure that we might not have otherwise though. I'm sure there are kids today like we were who really look up to the guys on TV, and watching their show helps fuel the passion a bit. That's a good thing. And I'm sure there's a huge benefit on the retail end. (*cough* banjo minnow anyone?  )
I get the whole sponsorship thing, but Shawn is right -- it's like NASCAR. |
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Posts: 212
| I think it's funny that because of fishing shows that anglers think that's how things should be. You shouldn't be on the water if you don't have a particular type of boat, or if you don't have the hottest lure with a 130 # leader tied on. It's 100% marketing!! If these guys would pay the bills for me to fish year round and travel to different lakes I'd sport the gear, but the reality of it is we're all after the same quary. It happens in every aspect of fishing, guys that fit the catalog descriptions and go out there and devour everything that fishing pro says to do on their show. They follow all the steps and become a "just add water" pro. I think they have their pros and cons for the sport... Sure you can learn proper release techniques on the tube but how much learning does real hands-on time on the water account for?? I always believe that if you want to be the best at what you do take other peoples advice with a grain of salt, and make educated decisions. I.E.- Don't do something just because someone tells you that's what they do.. |
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Posts: 661
Location: Roscoe IL | Shows are all good IMOP.
Get to meet some of the people you chat with online. Love all the fancy booths & shiny new lures. Chicago show could be better if they served Beer. The sales would improve if they did.
Milwaukee show IMOP is second to none. Eveyone is relaxed by then & just having a good time. The hotel bar, swap meet on Saturday followed by a huge brunch on Sunday at the hotel. MAN you can beat it!
Not to mention Sobelmans Burgers & Bloody Marry's. Best burger in the midwest! |
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| Shows are for entertainment mostly, some information, but mostly entertainment.
Just like those of you who watch NFL, NBA, MLB, etc.... are companies going to pay the high paid athletes play on Sunday or pay some to play a backyard game by a bunch of 30+ year olds that are out of shape.
Also most guys expect to see these TV guys in the best of the best... Would Ranger be a sponser of a show if you fished out of a 1989 Ranger? Would Merc pay to be a sponser of a show if you ran a 1989 Merc that smoked, started half the time, etc.... Also, would you expect to see Mr. Tv Fisherman in a 2008 boat or a 1989 boat?
Just like everything, it is all about the almighty dollar. That ISN'T bad. That is what runs the world.
Shows are good, for entertainment.
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| The point that people are watching fishing instead of actually doing it, now a days is an interesting idea. I think it definitely has some merit. I know that when I was growing up in the Nebraska, where good fishing/lakes are not exactly everywhere and are really far and few between, I would often prefer watching the shows from MN, WI, and the South to actually going out and trying to catch a 10" bass. Granted the two experiences are apples and oranges, but the tv satisfaction was considerably easier to obtain, and often I would learn a lot more from watching a guy work a complex piece of structure or lake than I usually did fishing a shallow bowl of a farm pond. I couldn't begin to know how much I've learned from TV and Videos over the years, especially when I didn't have access to quality water. Many of the shows are also very entertaining, but of course if I grew up in the areas where they where filmed I'd have prefered being out there and doing it myself.
Anytime I had an upcoming trip I'd spend a lot more time watch the shows to pick up current tips and to get pumped for the trip. So when I was fishing more I'd often watch the shows more, but when I was busy with other things I didn't watch as often. Now that lakes and rivers are all around me I'd rather spend saturday floating on one of them versus sitting on the couch watching someone else do it.
I'm not a competative angler, so the whole tournament influence on fishing shows is sort of a turn-off, although many of them are so well done that you can pick up a lot in less time than you would a show following a single angler. It is nice to multiple anglers with multiple approaches to the same conditions. Where as many of the other shows that were my favorites have mostly gone down hill. I liked the old In-Fish videos, "The Great Muskie Hunt I" for instance, that would follow a couple guys for a few days showing the changing conditions and the results that go with them. Now when you watch some little 15min segment about fishing a single type of bait or something you can't pick up as much. Now a days the importance is on showing fish get landed. Don't get me wrong the whole idea of fishing is to land them, but I don't need to watch Bill Dance play a 4lb largemouth for 2 min to know how to do it.
I really don't understand why fishing is loosing popularity like it is. The shows have obviously gotten diluted by the variety out there now, and are suffering to keep up in the information age. Product sponsorship pays the bills for those guys, but it shouldn't be the main focus. The biggest reason I would watch a show now adays is the locations/lakes. We've gotten past the general fishing info stage and lake specific tips/info is more important now, at least to me it is. I always want to see an angler breakdown a body of water for the first time. That type of information will always be useful.
Ryan |
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Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | My thoughts... Shows give an unrealistic impression on how difficult fishing really is. I highly doubt Doug Stange is so good he catches 4 muskies every trip, but if you have ever watched the show you would think he is. |
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Posts: 476
Location: WI | What else am I supposed to do on a Saturday or Sunday morning in February?  |
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| When I am filming for my shows I insist that everything is in real time. In other words, I do not keep fish out of the water, move around the lake with a fish to get a different back drop etc. I have guided for Ted Takasaki and that is what he wanted to do. I refused to do this and he says it is for show business. At what price? The fish suffers for sensationalism?
There is a lot of good info on today's shows but I feel it is more marketing for sponsors than anything. But, that is what is keeping this business going.
My show has no sponsors so I get to use what I want and do what it takes to catch fish. maybe that is why I struggle to get my shows on the big networks and maybe that is why I have no sponsors yet... who knows, I am having a blast doing it my way and countless viewers in Canada are appreciating my format.
St. Croix Rods gets a ton of free advertising from me since that is all I use and talk about. So does Shumway tackle and Joe Bucher's tackle.
I am always looking for guests for my shows... Anybody interested?
All you have to do is want to fish and have fun.
Neil Michelin from Sioux Lookout
Cry of the Loon Fishing Adventures on APTN
Lac Seul Fish Fry Co.
Canadian Heartland Fishing
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Posts: 26
Location: Cook, Minnesota On Beautiful Lake Vermilion | Hey Neil,
You know I want to make it to your area to fish with you. Hopefully in the Spring. I would love to be a guest on the show-I only know how to cast and cast and have fun-since I don't catch many fish...LOL
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Posts: 376
Location: Lake Vermilion Tower, MN | Hey Muskie Chick,
All that is going to change next season with your first full season on Vermilion.
I had the pleasure of doing a couple of shows last summer.
The guy that I filmed with wasn't a professional angler.
Instead of pushing a particular bait that "You just had to have" We focussed on
locations and using the right presentations for the type of fish we were after. We did a Smallmouth bass and a Pike/Muskie show.
They were both done in real time by the way. Total hours on the water to do both shows was about ten hours over 2 days.
I still think that Al Linder has the best show on TV. He still manages to be very informative and they fish a lot of local waters.
Happy Thanksgiving!
"Ace" |
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Posts: 147
Location: Milwaukee, WI | They are good because sometimes they show us places & species to fish we weren't aware of:
Winkleman: Lac LaMarte
Dahlberg: so many wild & crazy places in S. America
Gillespie/Maina: Ottawa River
InFisherman: S.Texas gator-fish |
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Posts: 1169
Location: New Hope MN | guideman - 11/25/2008 3:28 PM
I still think that Al Linder has the best show on TV. He still manages to be very informative and they fish a lot of local waters.
"Ace" :)
Agreed! I can still recall one of my favorite videos word for word.
Linder: "Muskies, They're big, they're tough, they're elusive, thats what's makes them exciting."
Just a small note for any of you guys making shows.
I lost all respect for Bob Mesikomer when he picked up some weeds and smelled them. Saying he could smell the muskies there... Please. |
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Posts: 61
Location: Sioux Lookout On Canada | Thank you and your officially invited. Let's keep in touch through the winter and I can look at the dates. The musky season opens the 3rd Saturday in June(my son's fourth b-day this year). There will be an honorarium for you and accomodations should be covered.
Right on and we will have a lot of fun. Boat equipment and shorelunch provided "Lac Seul style".
Neil Michelin |
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Posts: 8782
| dtaijo174 - 11/25/2008 3:49 PM
...Just a small note for any of you guys making shows.
I lost all respect for Bob Mesikomer when he picked up some weeds and smelled them. Saying he could smell the muskies there... Please.
As a TV personality, I think you #*^@ well better not be up in front of that camera making up stuff. That includes endorsing products that are garbage. I understand the need for sponsorship, but I think a lot of guys have lost the most important thing, and that's integrity. Once you lose that, whatever respect you had goes right out the window. |
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Posts: 61
Location: Sioux Lookout On Canada | I agree with you. Fishing is not cut and dry. What works for some will not work for others. Fishing is about Karma and the experience. I have never smelled the muskies on the weeds, but, I have driven by a piece of shoreline and got "that feeling"... I doubled back and boated a beauty.
Or, the old timer who has the "pencil sharpener" reel and 20 year old line who gets a musky on... fights it for half an hour... over logs, around the motor etc... and still we boat the fish. That is the Karma and the experience.
All in all... hail to the creator of cowgirls!!! and Shumay Flashers!!! and Topraiders!!! Where would we be without them.
(saving our deer hair for homemade lures like in the past!LOL
Neil Michelin
Host of Cry of the Loon Fishing Adventures on APTN
Lac Seul Fish Fry
Canadian Heartland Fishing
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Posts: 4266
| Like anything else, it's up to you to sort through the crap and separate the salesmen from the fishermen. A good fisherman can sell fishing equipment better than the best salesman.
I remember when I used to do seminars in the 70's and 80's. When you get up on the stage to start your talk, you are either there to benefit your sponsors, or teach people things who are hungry for knowlege. I had the extreme pleasure to travel with Dan Sura and a couple of other guys for a few years, and I sat to watch Dan speak every chance that I could. He was a great speaker. Entertaining and educational.
You have to remember that many speakers are there because of their sponsors, so they expect them to push product when they have your attention. I used to start every seminar with a slide of the Daiwa logo on the screen. I told the people there,"I represent Daiwa rods and reels. I use their equipment exclusively, and if you'd like to talk about their products, I'd be happy to do so after the seminar.", then I never mentioned Daiwa or any of my sponsors for the rest of the seminar.
Good speakers are like good teachers or coaches. They should keep your attention by keeping the seminar educational and amusing and never tell you that there is only one way to skin a cat. A good question and answer is always a nice touch, but you should always come away knowing more about the subject before you took your seat. |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | Fishing shows, seminar speakers and magazines have had a tremendous impact on our current angling situation.
Some have promoted respect for the resource, showed how to handle fish effectively, how to find the fish in different seasons, what lures work, how to use those lures, and when to use them. They have shown us how to get the most of our equipment and how to take care of it.
Others have ruined lakes and areas of lakes by naming them, exposing them to more pressure than they could possible handle, caused crowding leading to unsportsmanlike behavior on the water, shamelessly hawked questionable equipment for financial gains, and given a false sense of the effort required to catch fish leading to less than enjoyable trips for some who believe what they see is typical for anyone. They have shown how to horse green fish into the boat to get them to jump and make "good" video, and then held the fish up for extended periods of time before dropping them into the water or worse, on the floor of the boat then later adding, "Look, she swam away, she'll make it!"
With the good comes the bad, intentionally done or not, it is what it is. There is an awesome responsability that goes with putting information in front of people. We know who gets rewarded for the good but who pays for the bad? Who edits what a person says on a program to make sure it is fact and not just popular opinion? Does a BS alarm ring when someone is hosing you or is there a green light that comes on when a product is really worth getting? Too many questions and not enough answers. Maybe the best we can hope for is that the good and bad balance out somehow. |
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| Neil, shoot me an email. [email protected] |
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Posts: 78
| The good thing about shows, products and the general fishing industry is it helps a lot of guys make a living in the outdoors. Most of the real fishermen can separate the real stuff out of the show huppla. I am for anything that helps the outdoor sports (fishing, hunting, trapping.) To many PETA people who grow up in big cities and don't understand what fishing or hunting is all about. |
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Posts: 1663
Location: Kodiak, AK | Walker's Cay Chronicles. Best fishing show ever. Flip Pallot just went fishing. Yeah, he'd talk about Hell's Bay boats, and it'd show his reels and such, but there was never any product endorsement or him sitting on a dock somewhere "teaching" you how to fish. It was just him, a buddy or his wife Diane fishing somewhere. Pike in Manitoba, trout in Montana, or bonefish in Florida. He had sponsors, but you only saw them mentioned when it was at the beginning and it was, "ESPN's Walker's Cay Chronicles is brought to you by...."
There's still some good shows out there, but so many of them are so much BS, pomp and ego, I get turned off pretty quickly.
I like the Lindners though. They're good people in my book. |
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