|
|
Posts: 410
Location: one foot over the line | Hoping that someone might be able to measure their rear deck for me. I am rebuilding a marauder that was a console model and I am switching it to a tiller, either a 75 or 90. My concern is that if I make the rear platform too large, my steering capabilities might suffer. Hoping to get a measurement of one that came from the factory. Any help is appreciated, thanks. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1333
Location: E. Tenn | Here you go...from this year's E Mag.
Attachments
----------------
 eb8f.jpg (67KB - 454 downloads)
3822.jpg (54KB - 435 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | If you are switching it to a tiller, the rating is 50 HP for a Marauder and 60 for a Mag (mag is 10" wider). If you overpower the liability is off the charts, even if you don't know about it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 410
Location: one foot over the line | Thank you miket55. And, yes Steve, I do understand that I am opening a whole can of worms with my current thinking of a larger outboard. Haven't fully made up my mind yet, as I still have a ways to go on the build. I do have a bit of a stubborn side of me that doesn't like the idea of being able to put a 90 on it if it was a console and only a 50 if it was a tiller. But, that's probably a whole different thread. Appreciate the heads up.
Edited by beerforthemuskygods 8/28/2018 9:12 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | It's actually the law in many states, check your regs! |
|
| |
|
Posts: 410
Location: one foot over the line | I understand. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 20254
Location: oswego, il | What Steve said is worth talking about if you are being stubborn and considering it. I have fished out of two console tuffy magnums and they were great. Yes you get extra space by converting. If you are fishing water where you feel you need the bigger motor to get around, leave the console. If not, a 60 is enough to get you about. It's a great musky fishing platform, not a bassboat. As Steve said liability. No one can ever predict a set of circumstances. It's not worth it. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1333
Location: E. Tenn | disclaimer..
(20180903_150246 (Copy).jpg)
Attachments
----------------
20180903_150246 (Copy).jpg (173KB - 460 downloads)
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Hard to say why that tag is on a Mag, should not be. That's a 1700 Deep V tag. |
|
| |
|
| As I understand it, the hp ratings are set by standards that include the set up, the hull design, etc. My 1800 Pro V tiller is rated at 90 hp, and the console version, with the same hull was 150hp. To put a 150 tiller on it would be suicidal, forget liability. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | North of 8 - 9/5/2018 1:52 PM
As I understand it, the hp ratings are set by standards that include the set up, the hull design, etc. My 1800 Pro V tiller is rated at 90 hp, and the console version, with the same hull was 150hp. To put a 150 tiller on it would be suicidal, forget liability.
Has to do with the center line length of the boat at the static float plane (first place water comes in when swamped, usually at the motor cutout) and other hull measurements, a WOT turn test, and seating arrangements. Po Chang, who was a USCG officer when I talked to him about the tillers, said restricted visibility past the passengers in a tiller is a major factor as is the fact a tiller can be turned MUCH faster than a wheel boat. Makes sense if you consider everything for safety and liability from a boat builder's perspective. |
|
| |
|
| sworrall - 9/5/2018 3:45 PM
North of 8 - 9/5/2018 1:52 PM
As I understand it, the hp ratings are set by standards that include the set up, the hull design, etc. My 1800 Pro V tiller is rated at 90 hp, and the console version, with the same hull was 150hp. To put a 150 tiller on it would be suicidal, forget liability.
Has to do with the center line length of the boat at the static float plane (first place water comes in when swamped, usually at the motor cutout ) and other hull measurements, a WOT turn test, and seating arrangements. Po Chang, who was a USCG officer when I talked to him about the tillers, said restricted visibility past the passengers in a tiller is a major factor as is the fact a tiller can be turned MUCH faster than a wheel boat. Makes sense if you consider everything for safety and liability from a boat builder's perspective.
I can vouch for the turning faster. One of the first times I took out my 90hp tiller, a bare foot water skier, a real rarity on the lake where I live, fell and skidded across the water into the path I was taking. I turned more sharply then I intended, planning on giving him a wide berth and almost fell off my seat. Good lesson for me. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 8834
| Note to self:
If you're going to swap out the tag so your boat looks to be rated for the HP motor you intend to put on it, at the very least use a tag from the same model boat.
And yes, I know of a few people who have actually done this.
What happens if there is some sort of incident, and it turns out you overpowered your boat beyond what it is actually rated for?
Edited by esoxaddict 9/5/2018 6:05 PM
|
|
| |
|
Posts: 190
| I over powered my tuffy and it was fine. Max hp was 60 for tiller 115 for a console. I went with a 90 tiller with hydraulic steering and wish I would have with the 115. It would do 40 with 2-3 guys with gear. Which was not to fast, and the hydraulic tiller was awesome.
Tiller boats are under rated specially if you are adding the upgraded steering.
My 2 cents. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | cbuf - 10/2/2018 5:29 PM
I over powered my tuffy and it was fine. Max hp was 60 for tiller 115 for a console. I went with a 90 tiller with hydraulic steering and wish I would have with the 115. It would do 40 with 2-3 guys with gear. Which was not to fast, and the hydraulic tiller was awesome.
Tiller boats are under rated specially if you are adding the upgraded steering.
My 2 cents.
And it may be 'fine' until an accident happens or you need insurance for a claim or both. The liability is huge, and plain not worth the risk. In some states, you can be ticketed for
operating an overpowered boat. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1636
| You should be able to get up to 35 with a 60 hp tiller on an Esox Magnum with 3-4 guys. Not sure the extra 5 mph (do you really only get up to 40 with a 90 on an Esox Magnum?) is worth the risks Steve mentioned.
May I ask how fast you can get up to with just one person with a 90 on an Esox Magnum? I have seen as fast as 38 with a 60. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 859
Location: MN | sworrall - 10/2/2018 6:07 PM
cbuf - 10/2/2018 5:29 PM
I over powered my tuffy and it was fine. Max hp was 60 for tiller 115 for a console. I went with a 90 tiller with hydraulic steering and wish I would have with the 115. It would do 40 with 2-3 guys with gear. Which was not to fast, and the hydraulic tiller was awesome.
Tiller boats are under rated specially if you are adding the upgraded steering.
My 2 cents.
And it may be 'fine' until an accident happens or you need insurance for a claim or both. The liability is huge, and plain not worth the risk. In some states, you can be ticketed for
operating an overpowered boat.
X2 if you get in an accident your insurance if you can get it doesn’t protect you fully. Civil lawsuits can clean a person out. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | NathanH - 10/3/2018 1:24 PM
sworrall - 10/2/2018 6:07 PM
cbuf - 10/2/2018 5:29 PM
I over powered my tuffy and it was fine. Max hp was 60 for tiller 115 for a console. I went with a 90 tiller with hydraulic steering and wish I would have with the 115. It would do 40 with 2-3 guys with gear. Which was not to fast, and the hydraulic tiller was awesome.
Tiller boats are under rated specially if you are adding the upgraded steering.
My 2 cents.
And it may be 'fine' until an accident happens or you need insurance for a claim or both. The liability is huge, and plain not worth the risk. In some states, you can be ticketed for
operating an overpowered boat.
X2 if you get in an accident your insurance if you can get it doesn’t protect you fully. Civil lawsuits can clean a person out.
X3: I doubt any insurance company would even come close to touching this boat with a motor way over the max HP....then....if you pull it off with the insurance company and something happens, you will not be covered because the boat was modified....they WILL know because the hull number needs to be supplied and they will know exactly what the boat model is, whether it is console or tiller, and the HP rating of the boat...
Even if the fault is not yours, I'd doubt the insurance company would cover that even...
It's not worth it.... Want more HP...by a different boat that is rated for it...
Steve |
|
| |
|
Posts: 1636
| Can you put a 90hp tiller motor on a Esox Magnum - console model and still be covered? Serious question... |
|
| |
|
Posts: 3508
Location: Elk River, Minnesota | Hiya,
I would think you can given the console is in place, but here again...if the insurance adjuster comes out or asks for pictures, they are going to see the boat is not set up in the manner it was intended for....and see it as an over-power situation...
I'd think it'd be highly suspect seeing a motor that is tiller being used as a main motor on a console boat |
|
| |
|
Posts: 425
Location: MN | FYI,
If you search around the net for feedback on overpowering, you will get the same canned responses about liability, illegal etc. Most people are extremely conservative about it. What you won't find is actual experience - somebody getting a ticket for overpowering or accident liability horror stories.
I bought an older boat (max 65 hp on plate) that I thought had a 60 on it. A mechanic later told/showed me that it may actually be a 70 with swapped cowling. The 6 or 7 on the identification plate was obscured so it's hard to tell what the frame came from, and even if the frame was a 70, it could be a rebuilt 60 inside - couldn't really tell without tearing apart. Naturally I was concerned and looked into the legal side of it - here's what I found:
- I told my insurance company (Geico) about the situation. They said no problem. They have their own formula for max HP or speed (can't remember off hand now which) that the boat was well below. They marked the motor down as a 70 just in case. My only insurance with them is liability; I triple checked that this would not be a problem.
- I asked a CO friend of mine about it. He patrols the water as a substantial portion of his job. He seemed to not be aware it was even a legal issue, and commented that he only references that plate if he is concerned about overloading the boat - too many people or too much weight. Regarding the 70 vs 65, he thought that was about like driving 60 in a 55.
- I have been stopped by police on the water twice. They checked licensing and safety equipment, including the status of my fire extinguisher charge. There was no check on max hp vs. motor size. I know others stopped as well - never heard of anyone getting this checked. I looked up the fine, and I believe it was about $100, maybe more with fees.
Generally, I believe officers have bigger fish to fry than nitpicking someone a few hp over on a 16' fishing boat. If you had a 115 hp tiller on a boat that's supposed to have a 50, well that might be a different story, but it would also be a legitimate safety issue. The ratings used on those plates are based on an old formula developed to cover all boats simultaneously - it is necessarily conservative. See:
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/33/183.53
https://www.boats.com/resources/outboard-horsepower-ratings-for-till...
If overpowering doesn't pose a liability problem (verify), doesn't pose a significant legal risk, and isn't a safety issue, I don't really see what the problem is. |
|
| |
|
Posts: 32934
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I can personally verify that it can AND WILL cost you a ton of money if you are taken to court. You will lose.
The USCG rates those boats, and they are not doing it for fun. Take the risk and lose everything you have? Bad idea. |
|
| |
