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| so last year in canada (cedar lake ontario) to be exact we found that the smaller bucktails, topwater, and spinner baits were the key to catching muskies.....now is this a pattern that we can use this year as well????? the biggest muskie of our trip last year was a 45in'r caught on a 1/2 ounce spinner bait while fishing for pike.....just curious if this is due to fishing pressure threw out the season or if this lake is just a lake where they like the smaller baits........we do head up there the last week in july so there are plenty of people up there before us......maybe the fish just see every single bait and just something different like a small bucktail being ripped through the weeds is what they need to bite.......
any opinions would be helpful
thanks
brian |
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Posts: 494
Location: midwest | Pressure could be one factor, but forage size seems to be the biggest determining factor in the smaller bait bite. Is it possible that the fish you were fishing are targeting 5-7'' perch in those weedbeds or atleast that they were the most numerous forage fish available at the time in the areas you are targeting? |
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| do you think this pattern can be used up there this summer as well? we kinda just figured it out last year........been tryin the usual sized stuff for awhile with not much luck...... |
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| anyother opinions? |
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Posts: 7038
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | I'm personally a big believer in "the right tool for the job" in muskie fishing. Lately the trend for muskie hunters is to go BIG, all the time. However, if the fish arent always eating monster forage, then maybe smaller sized lures can be the ticket. I really dont believe in "pressure" on fish changing what they eat especially on a lake as large as Cedar that doesnt get pressure in amounts compareable to many in the lower 48.
How to figure out what they want, if its big or small baits....I figure using the "perfect partner" principles you can get closer to that. The two fisherpeople (dont want to be sexist) each throw something that seems to be a possibility for the day, but different in type or size or speed or presentation type (hair vs. crank vs. topwater vs. side to side jerk vs. up and down jerk), each guy works their lure for an amount of time....if no results, make a change that makes sense (speed up or slow down or work deeper or shallower or a bigger bait or a smaller bait) without chaging entirely what you're throwing.
If the fish show themselves and eat on a small or big bait, then you're on target. If they show themselves but dont eat, either stay with it til they do, or tweak the presentation.
In the end muskies eat what and when they want to, and rarely does it fit in with what the "book" says.
Or at least this is how I would approach it....
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Posts: 8781
| Slamr, how do you change your approach when say... pike are eating pretty much everything, and muskies just aren't even looking?  |
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Posts: 7038
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | I throw the three lures I can get through the areas where I have caught fish there in the past....say a spinnerbait in the weeds, rumbler/topraider or weagle. We DID have fish up, they were just few and far between.
I will admit though, I have a tendency (and reputation for) being somewhat stuck on what's worked in the past, and trying it til my arms fall off. BUT, my theory is also that when things arent going well, DONT start doing the crazy OTHER crap, just stick with what you have confidence is. |
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Posts: 8781
| Reason I ask is I tend to downsize only when nothing else seems to be working, extreme cold front conditions, East winds, etc.
Because of that? My success with small baits has been very limited -- on days like that, NO bait is going to be the magic bullet.
Going back to the pike example... Like you, I tend to go with what has worked in the past, whether its for me personally, or for someone else. But when you're catching a bunch of pike, my gut tells me that the whole food chain is probably active, and the reason you're catching a lot of pike instead of muskies is either A. The muskies are not in the same immediate area, (in which case lure selection isn't the problem) OR: B. The muskies are there but they are not eating the same thing as the pike. (in which case you need to throw something different)
In this particular case, smaller (in my opinion) is the wrong direction to go. |
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Posts: 7038
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | So what you're saying is that you dont think muskies and pikes will be in the same places, both eating at the same time or the same thing.....because? Muskies dont fight for territory, neither do pikes. So, why WOULDNT they both be in the same place? We caught a dozen pike, but we cast probably 30-50 times an hour each. That's a lot of casts, and not many pikes (relatively speaking to the number of casts) therefore I dont think we exactly had a situation where we were "weeding through" the pikes to hopefully get to the muskies.
The muskies werent eating in the place we were throwing for them. Maybe they werent there, or maybe they werent eating. Maybe we should have moved off the weed edge and thrown there? Maybe the trick was that we needed to be there for a change in something (weather, light penetration [ie. the onset of darkness]).
Again, why I do what I do when I do it, and don't think what I could have or should have done differently. Doing that makes me just sit there and stare at the map or the tackle box pondering. |
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Posts: 8781
| <So what you're saying is that you dont think muskies and pikes will be in the same places, both eating at the same time or the same thing.....because? >
Actually, quite the opposite. One would think that pike and muskies would inhabit the same general areas, and prefer similar forage. In a case where the pike seem to be eating and the muskies seem to be not eating, though, it seems to me that one of three scenarios would apply:
1. They are there but not eating. Makes sense, but it's been my experience that the food chain does not react in a mutually exclusive manner -- if fish are eating, it's not just one species.
2. They are not in the same immediate area. Goes against what you might expect, as good structure, current, oxygen content, and temperature are good for both pike and muskies.
3. They are there, and they are willing to eat, but not the same thing as the pike. My inclination there would be big and slow. Downsizing in that particular situation seems like you'd just get more (and perhaps smaller) pike.
So when IS the right time to downsize, anyway? I'm beginning to think you'd be better served to throw the smallest lures only when the fish (muskies) are most active. You can get more casts in and work your baits a lot faster, and let's face it -- it's a lot easier throwing a #5 Mepps than a Mag Dawg...
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| last year on Cedar the biggest muskie 47in was caught on a 1/2 spinnerbait while fishing for pike.....and the second largest a 42in was caught after i took off the plastic trailer on a 3/4 spinner bait to make it smaller......my brother had follows all week on a smaller bucktail.......me and my dad had a few follows on usual sized baits but nothin like the smaller baits my brother was throwing.......what does that say.......im still curious
-b- |
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| I have one "light" musky rod that's pretty much always rigged with a perch baby DR or something similar and use it intermittently throughout the day, and more if I'm not moving anything. All total I probably have caught as many fish with this approach as others, but it doesn't worl if the fish are going on topwaters, tails, dogs, etc. so I try to throw some variety every time out. |
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Posts: 229
Location: Willoughby, Ohio | We have some lakes here in Ohio (i.e. Leesville) where the preferred bait is a Sisson 41. Of course, our forage base in the state is primarily shad, so most of our popular lures are smaller than the Upper Midwest. |
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Posts: 53
Location: Tomahawk, WI | Guest - 6/20/2007 8:23 PM
do you think this pattern can be used up there this summer as well? we kinda just figured it out last year........been tryin the usual sized stuff for awhile with not much luck......
If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Plus it sounds like your confidence is more toward the smaller stuff.
I fish on a lake in Northern Wisconsin where the main forage is bluegill, perch, small walleye, crappie, and other various sunfish. Smaller lures get alot of attention on that lake. A few years ago when I barely knew what a muskie was I was out casting a #5 mepps and my heart stopped when an upper 30" muskie followed it to the boat. Another time, I was just casting off of the dock and one followed in a regular size bass spinnerbait. Last summer we were fishing on a weedy point for walleye and smallmouth when a lower 40" followed in my 4" rapala minnowbait(very small profile). Five minutes later he disrupted our walleye fishing, which was comprised of small fish, by spreading out the school and eventually jumping a foot out of the water(that was awesome). A couple days after that I caught my first legal (38.5") on a 5" jointed rapala.
Don't overthink it, and use what works!
Cameron |
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| well thanks for all the opinions........i will think about this alittle bit more......but i do have some ideas for this years trip
brian |
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Posts: 7
| I'm not familiar with Cedar, but a lake we fish in Ontario is gin clear. Smaller baits and natural colored baits outfish anything else. #5 mepps and small bucher bucktails are all the bigger we need and use.
So, the smaller lure thing is probably a trend, not a one time thing. Not saying they won't eat a bigger bait for ya though...
Good luck... |
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| Perrault Lake is attached to Cedar......Perrault is extremely clear......havent done too well up there in the past we have seen lots but we do better down in Cedar which is more stained like i said earlier last year the bait to beat was the #5 black Mepps musky killer bucktail
another question to those that have posted on this thread (if you are still watching this post  ) we did fish more of the weed beds last year.......Cedar does have lots of weedy areas but also lots of rocky areas too.......any reason for the smaller baits working better in the weedy areas opposed to the rocky areas??? just another question
_brian- |
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| If you are looking for muskies on Perrault Lake try Grassy Bay off the weeds and deep water. 20-25 ft East Bay also good and Sub Island. Big bucktails work well along with big crank baits. Have caught 50 plus inch fish out of Perrault but in deep water or areas where waves are turning the lake.
Good Luck |
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| dont know where sub island is.........up near Hatfield Island????? we've fished Little Musky Island a lot (right after the burnt bridge)
we have fished grassy bay as well.......probably have gone in too far though......seen a few very large fish at the island right before grassy bay
thanks for the tips......anyothers
-b- |
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