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Posts: 757
| I thought I would give my point of view and have others do the same. I am such a strong advocate of using a large reel for musky fishing. Reels such as the Abu 7000 series or the Shimano 700's and here's why. 1) Speed and power. The larger gears of these reels make fishing with large musky baits a breeze. I don't think there are many reels out there that can burn a bucktail faster than the 5.3to1 gear ratio 7000. On the flip side, when it comes to the super hard pulling baits like big spinnerbaits or large crankbaits, is there any reel better than a 4.1to1 geared 7000? 2) Versatility. Not only do the 7000s make great casting reels, they are also my power trolling reels. When it comes to sucker fishing in the fall with heavy monofilament, the large spool capacity provides plenty of line, along with a click button. Would you fellow musky anglers power troll a ten inch jake with your low profile bass reel? Or how about fall sucker fishing? Your bass size reels don't have the line capacity or a click button. 3) Durability. As I read through other threads about other anglers and their reel problems, its amazing how often you hear about the 5000 or 6000 size abus, 300 and 400 shimanos, and others failing in one way or another. Rarely, if ever, do I read about these large reels failing. I don't know if it's poor maintanance on the anglers part or which I believe musky fishing has evolved into a bigger is better mentality. I do admit these large reels are heavy and difficult to palm, but I learned by utilizing the rod balancing systems, I can fish with these large reels without tiring. With all the advantages of the large reels, I don't have a clue why anyone would use a small reel designed for bass fishing. Kdawg |
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Posts: 2024
| A lot of it, at least for me, is comfort. I have a 7000CL and 7000C3 and love them both. What a couple of work horses, and as you said they burn bucktails, big spinnerbaits, and crankbaits like butta-baby!
Yet, I can't work a glider or other pull baits because of the lack of an anti-reverse mechanism. Then, I switch to 400 size reels. Smaller baits like smaller spinnerbaits, topwaters, etc. I go to the smaller 400s too. Just my .02 cents. |
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Posts: 1462
Location: Davenport, IA | I use smaller reels. My favorites are 253 Daiwas. I can burn a bucktail fast enough for the blade to come out of the water, so I'm not worried about that. I've had them 4 years and haven't even greased them. So they are tough. More comfortable to throw a lighter reel all day. The recessed reel foot fits the rod better for palming. For suckers/trolling I use other reels. (Penn's and an Okuma line counter) |
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Posts: 20211
Location: oswego, il | I use smaller reels for certain things but I still like palming my reels. With that said, I do have a power setup for heavy dragging baits. It is an old 6000C with 4.7 to1 retrieve and I put a power handle on it. Baits that would kick my rear end with a 5600 sereis reel are a breeze on that one.
I disagree about the need for line capacity on a sucker reel. I rarey have more than 10ft of line out. I doubt anybody would have more than 30ft of line out. I do use a line counter reel for sonsistency as I do the same for trolling. I plan on buying 2 more line counters and they will probably be the 5600 garcia mechanical line counter. Even when I troll, I rarely have more than 70 feet of line out and that is with a planer board. |
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Posts: 199
Location: Sandusky, OH | kdawg,
First of all, nice topic; something I have mulled over a bit. I agree that for burning bucktails, large cranks, and spinnerbaits, as well as trolling and sucker fishing, the 7000 size reels have advantages over the smaller reels despite their heavy weights and lack of instant anti-reverse. If and when I start using those methods in any frequency, I will likely get one of these reels, although for trolling I will likely get a larger line counter like a 47 Sealine Daiwa.
However, I have to take issue with the implication that any reel smaller than a 7000 is a 'bass reel'. When I think of bass sized reels, I think of 100 and 200 sizes. While not my first choice, I think these reels still can have applications in musky fishing. My real disagreement is with labeling the 300/5600 and 400/6600 sizes as bass reels, when they are anything but. My impression is that these reels have their roots in saltwater applications, and they get extensive workouts cranking in snook, tarpon, redfish, and stripers, not to mention Amazon peacock bass and trophy northern pike. A reel that can handle that abuse deserves better than to relagated to green weinie duty! 
I think that choosing a reel has more to do with matching the bait/technique than matching the species targeted. I don't want to be berated for saying this, but I don't consider muskies to be the hardest fighting fish around; their size, which makes them so special, also makes them tire much sooner than other fish (ie., saltwater). My point is that most good reels these days have high quality drags capable of handling a battle with muskies. So, that leaves us with the interior construction to examine. Larger reels may be sturdier, but I'm not sure it's much better than the 5000 and 6000 sizes. Quality gears and bearings are available in each, so if there is an advantage to larger reels its only by a narrow margin.
The disadvantages to the large reels are several. As mentioned above, size and weight are disadvantages to those that palm their reels. Also, light weight is important to me for a full day of fishing, and the thought of adding weight (rod balancers) to achieve the illusion of light weight really rubs me the wrong way. I prefer to have a combo that balances naturally, and for me, that happens with the 'smaller' reels. Finally, cost is (unfortunately) prohibitive for me. For the cost of one 7000, I can get (nearly) 2 smaller reels that for me will last as long as the one bigger reel. I unfortunately don't spend as many days on the water as many of you, so I don't tear through gear.
Having said all of this, its only an opinion, and your mileage may vary.
Have a great day! |
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Posts: 1937
Location: Black Creek, WI | Great topic... and one I'll watch with interest.
All I know is that ALL REELS eventually fail. I'm a slacker... and I tend to let others go through the growing pains with new equipment (heh heh).... so I have not personally experimented with the 7000 series reels.... yet. Many of my friends have tried the 7000 series reels... and with limited success. Legends such as Johnson and Pearson obviously see benefit from the larger 7000 type reels, so they gotta offer something... I just haven't seen it first hand. Secondly, the 7000 series reels are NOT new.... so I often wonder how a product that has been around for so long hasn't become a staple tool for most poeple if it truly is the holy grail.
I like to palm my reels.... and that is one of the main reasons I haven't charged down the road of bigger reels... especially with my more recent passion/obsession with burnin' blades. Its more comfortable for me to palm a Morrum 6600 and spin the handle at mach 10 till smoke is coming off the reel (haha) than it is for me to change my style and hold the rod by the foregrip. Petty reason... but its significant for me and not necessarily for you.
With all that said...... if I were to purchase a Big Block Burnin' reel.... what truly is the most durable and functional reel out there? I hate the old side push button on the ABU's and would like one with a thumbar. I also want a lower gear ratio to reduce torque and fatigue on the hard pulling baits I want to burn (if they pull easy, I'm gonna use my smaller reels). Is the TE 7000 worth spending the money on or are the economical ABU's good enough? What other options are out there? |
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Posts: 757
| Just to clarify after reading over my post, I can understand how one can assume I was calling the ABU 5000/6000 and the 300/400 Shimanos bass reels. My mistake. When I mentioned those sized reels, I originally was questioning their durability because of the countless numbers of other fisherman having these reels breakdown. When I used the the term-low profile bass reels, I was refering to the guys who use the Shimano Curados. Now I'll be first to say the reputation of the Curado speaks for it's self. If I was a hard-core bass fisherman, the curado would probably be my choice. But for musky fishing, I just don't see how a curado, designed to throw 3/8 -1/2oz baits can compare to the 7000/700 reels. I only had 1 course in Physics when I was in college so here's how I see it. The larger gears of the big reels coupled with a big power handle make it easy to retrieve the large musky baits used today. The smaller gears used in the small reels means you have to double your cranking effort in order to retrieve the baits. Which angler will be tired after an 8-10 hr. day on the water? One other point about the large reels is the economics. I read that some anglers have used the term a "one season reel". Well, if I spent 150.00 bucks on a 7000 reel and I could get numbers of seasons out of it,who comes out ahead? Kdawg |
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Posts: 8774
| Hey bluegill -- it's not the fish that are breaking our reels, it's our baits. |
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Posts: 757
| Here's some more interesting history I would like to add in the use of small reels. Back in 1990, when I first subscribed to M/H magazine, there was an interesting movement by the pros to using the smaller reel. They believed by using a small light weight reel one would be less tired by the end of the day. Almost every article back then claimed that the Quantum Pro 1 was the new standard of the industry. I was puzzled. Fast forward 16 years. These same pro's are now on the Avid 300 bandwagon, and the Quantum Pro 1 is now distant memory. Kdawg |
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Posts: 734
| The new 7000IC3's have a flip bar instead of a push button. I really like this reel, the only question for me is durability, they came out late this year, but i have had no problems with the one I have been using. Once you get used to holding a 7000 you will never go back in my opinion. I have three rods in the boat for casting, two have 7000's. And I also use a Calcutta TE 300. I have one 7000 with the 4.1 to 1 and one with 5.3 to 1 and the Calcutta rarely gets used unles it is something like Eels or small in line bucktails.
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| But for musky fishing, I just don't see how a curado, designed to throw 3/8 -1/2oz baits can compare to the 7000/700 reels.
frankly, i'm puzzled by the premise of your question. why would you compare them? they aren't intended to be used for the same things. it makes no sense to me as it's an apples/oranges kind of thing.
you assume that a fisherman has to choose one or the other, and that's simply untrue.
i've got an Abu 7000CS Pro Rocket with a big spool and 4:1 gear ratio. this real is perfect for pulling the big double-10 bucktails like the XX and XXX. it's all but effortless and i can run them all day without tiring.
i've also got a couple Shimano Chronarchs (low profile inshore "bass" reels). they're smaller, lighter, and easier to handle than the big 7000s. would i use them to pull those huge bucktails? no way, the gears aren't big enough to handle that much resistance and it's too much work. but when throwing a Mepps Marabou or a Lilytail i go straight for the 5:1 Chronarch - at 20"/crank it picks up just as much line per crank as the bigger round reels (my Calc 400 TE picks up 23"/crank...perfect for hard-pulling crankbaits and ripping DDDs or Grandmas). when i'm working a Suick or a Musky Treat, i go for my 6:1 Chronarch which picks up 26"/crank. my small hands appreciate the break and the reels work absolutely fine.
i match my lure choice to my rod/reel choice and have no issues with "burning reels out". the gearing and drag systems in high-quality low-profile "bass" reels are more than capable of handling a muskie once it's hooked, so that's not an issue either.
the trick is to match both your rod and reel to the lure you're going to throw with it. if you're only going to have one or two combos, think about what lures you're going to be throwing most of the time and match your rods and reels to that. if you've got the ability to specialize your gear a bit more through additonal combos, adding a big powerful reel for heavy bucktails and cranks is great, as is adding a lighter rig for the smaller stuff.
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Posts: 358
Location: London, England | The big difference between large reels and small ones, for musky fishing purposes, is that when you make a cast with a large reel the line level on the spool only drops marginally, so the actual retrieve rate (not the 20" line or whatever as quoted in the cabelas catalogue, based on a full spool) stays fairly consistant. A small reel will nearly empty itself of line on a cast so you're actual retrieve rate may fall to as low as maybe 10" per handle revolution. Obviously this has a large baring on how your bait performs in the water, or how much faster you need to turn the handle at the beginning of the retrieve to achieve the same as you're doing at the end.
Bigger reels usually make retrieving hard pulling baits easier, are more durable and less prone to breaking down on day 1 of your week in Canada! |
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| A small reel will nearly empty itself of line on a cast so you're actual retrieve rate may fall to as low as maybe 10" per handle revolution.
this sounds true in theory, but it's not my experience in practice.
the "bass" guys wouldn't stand for that kind of poor and variable performance anymore than we would, and they drive a pretty big market.
a)i've never made a cast long enough to "nearly empty" any reel.
the Chronarch's that i use loaded fully up with 65lb superbraid hold about 115yds of line.
i don't generally cast much more than 30yds, especially with smaller baits, and only occasionally "bomb" it out there to 40yds. most often i'm casting 15-25yds tops: lots of short precise casts. the change in spool diameter is minimal.
b) because the spool holds a relatively small amount of line, when you make a cast the total spool diameter changes a small percent. spool diameter with these reels is determined more by the size of the metal spool than by the amount of line you have on it.
Bigger reels usually make retrieving hard pulling baits easier, are more durable and less prone to breaking down on day 1 of your week in Canada!
again, the "bass" guys will stand for crappy quality even less than muskie guys. if you match the size of your lure to the capability of the reel, it will be quite durable.
imho, most gear wears out due to our tendency to overload it's capacity. i don't throw heavy/hard-pulling baits with my small reels, just like i don't use a screwdriver to pound nails.
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Posts: 199
Location: Sandusky, OH | esoxaddict - 11/16/2006 10:56 AM
Hey bluegill -- it's not the fish that are breaking our reels, it's our baits.
Esoxaddict,
I believe that if you re-read the paragraph you are refering to you will see that is exactly the point I was attempting to make (like in the first sentance). I made the point about drag quality so remove that from the discussion; besides, I've heard the drag-surface arguement made during similar discussions in the past. My point was that gear and bearing quality in smaller reels can be just as good (and sometimes better) as in the big reels. I believe I read somewhere that Abu Garcia has improved the quality of the C4 series this past year, and I think I read that here (but not certain). I don't know anything about metalurgy, but could one of the improvements be a better quality brass in their gears? Someone here must know.
My biggest flaw in posting is that I get too wordy rather than being short and direct. Plus, I think I was interupted by one of the girls (2 daughters and wife; take your pick) while I was trying to make that point, so it wasn't worded well. Somehow, I don't think they muskiefirst is as important as I do LOL!
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Posts: 134
| Personally I like the larger rels, 7000 type, but this discussion is like what caliber is best for deer hunting; If the deer is dead that's it , there's only one degree of dead, does not matter what bullet you used. If you caught the muskie the reel worked for you. Some are more powerfull, some more user friendly, some even look better. Pick the features you like and that's the reel for you.
There are only two kinds of fish in fresh water, Muskies and things Muskies eat.
Joe Wishin |
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Posts: 199
Location: Sandusky, OH | AMEN! |
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Posts: 663
| Lambeau has it nailed down. |
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Posts: 757
| Lambeau, you are right. There is no right or wrong answer here. Just other guys giving there own points of view. Good debate so far, fair and balanced, and we'll let the audience decide! KDAWG |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I used to run a few low profile reels for spring twitchin' due to the fast line pickup, and light weight/small size. I prefered the shimano Curado. was a great reel. I burned them up on occasion, and was scolded by Shimano time and time again fro using them for Musky angling. I now prefer to run the same reel for all... um most, applications. I like my Morrum 6600's and Diawa cvz's as they are roughly the same size with the same line cap. and same gear ratio. I like the fact that each of my combos are outfitted witht eh same reel, and know that the same type of retreive will give me the same results. Sometimes the slightest dfference in speed can make the difference, and picking up different reels can alter that. The one time I like a faster pickup is when using bump and rise jerks, and during springtime twitchin'. I like to run alot of big spinnerbaits, and some homemade spinners made with the larger size 10 blades, and am thinking about looking at one of the larger 7000 type reels, though I am with jlong, do not switch hands when casting, and do not like the side push buttons on the larger reels. |
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