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| Since Hooker brought up Rob Kimm's article on the ethics of pre-season musky fishing on the general discussion board, I thought I'd post here to ask what real research actually shows closed seasons protect the fishery? I'm no expert on this subject but my understanding is that solid research on other species (largemouth and smallmouth bass, trout) have basically de-bunked the old views that closed season really do much to protect the fishery. About the only thing I've heard to the contrary is that most of those studies were in the south and our fisheries in the north are more fragile.
So, what solid data is there that shows a closed season is needed to protect spawning muskies?? |
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Posts: 178
| GUEST QUESTION: So, what solid data is there that shows a closed season is needed to protect spawning muskies??
DAVE: None. Most closed seasons are merely traditions established long ago when logical (but unsupported) assumptions by well-meaning anglers and politically influenced natural resource agencies guided the decision-making process. Once established, such traditions die hard, despite the absence of scientific or even social justification. Just my opinion. I'm sure you could find a fishery biologist or two who disagree.
Dave Neuswanger
Fisheries Team Leader, Upper Chippewa Basin
Wisconsin DNR, Hayward |
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Posts: 4080
Location: Elko - Lake Vermilion | Dave N.,
Very good reply,
I live in the Twin Cities and know for a fact that muskies in this area spawn at least 2 - weeks sooner than they do in Northern Mn. Sooooo, I'm thinking that we in Mn. should have an earlier opener in the southern part of the state than the northern half, (Like Wi. has)
Also, Tiger Muskie lakes should open up on the same date as Walleyes do......
Thanks, Jerome |
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Posts: 3147
| MI,,MMA workin on the tiger part of it
dnr however not to receptive to a 'southern oppener' the questions been asked.
One well known angler has an intresting idea,,,start season two weeks earlier and make whole state 'total' C&R UNTILL JULY 15TH |
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Posts: 13688
Location: minocqua, wi. | i'm curious about the comment that states "the northern lakes are more fragile" ... i've not heard this statement before and right off the bat it sounds like justification unfounded. honestly, is there anything to this comment? and if so, what foundation is used for the argument. i guess i've never heard that water is more or less capable depending on where it's located geographically ....
Dave? |
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Posts: 178
| Jon, I have no idea what "more fragile" means. I am somewhat familiar with the history of development of the late opener for muskellunge in northern Wisconsin; and in my opinion, it is not well founded on anything, biologically or socially. In my opinion, there is no need to restrict harvest to any particular range of dates, and there is even less reason to restrict the range of dates during which anglers may catch and release muskellunge, north or south. We can achieve all our management objectives, where we have them, with spawning habitat protection, judicious stocking where absolutely necessary, and the right choice and enforcement of length limits -- either minimum length limits or slot length limits. Again, just one biologist's opinion...
Dave Neuswanger
Fisheries Team Leader, Upper Chippewa Basin
Wisconsin DNR, Hayward |
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| HH (or anybody)
Do you know the reasons behind the MN DNR lack of support for opening the season earlier? Have you ever heard them elaborate the reasons for their position of a late opener?
I always assumed that 'closed seasons' were to protect spawning fish, but in the southern part of the state, there is little successful spawning that goes on. Plus, muskies are broadcast spreaders, unlike bass which aggressively guard a nest and are, therefore, more vulnerable to anglers - theoretically reducing the number of eggs/fry that make it to maturity. However, this has never seemed to be a problem down south, where there is an open season year round and fishing is quite good.
The closed musky and bass season in MN has never made sense to me.
Brian |
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Posts: 299
Location: Nowheresville, MN | Even though a particular lake may have no successful recruitment, the fish still put biomass into eggs and milt. In many cases these fish still go through the motions. Whether or not a fish successfully recruits a year class or not has no bearing as to the "stress" they go through. |
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Posts: 178
| A lake I managed as a young biologist for the Missouri Department of Conservation (530-acre Hazel Creek Lake near Kirksville, MO) had a good musky population (still does) throughout the mid to late 1980s when the reservoir was new. Muskellunge "went through the motions" there, too. We observed egg-laden females in the company of multiple attentive males in the process of spawning. There was no closed season on musky fishing; anglers caught fish at that time of year and released them under the most protective minimum length limit in North America at that time -- 42 inches. Biologists netted the fish too in order to study them -- even more stress. Under these circumstances, we documented the highest survival rate (lowest total annual mortality rate) of muskellunge anywhere in North America, ever. (And it was the best survival rate estimate anywhere, to date.)
The moral of the story? Allowing anglers to catch and release muskies while muskies are spawning has no bearing on the survival of those fish, regardless of the stress they may be experiencing associated with the spawning act. Apparently, if the fish are energetic enough to chase a lure, they are "over" the immediate short-term stress of spawning. So, I don't think we can say that closed seasons are necessary to prevent stress-related mortality during the spawning season.
By the way, there was no natural recruitment of muskellunge in Hazel Creek Lake; but that had nothing to do with "stressing them" by catching them during the spawning season. There were far too many largemouth bass (20/acre over 8 inches long) for the young musky hatchlings to survive. We knew we would have to stock 10-12 inch muskies in that lake in order to sustain a fishery, as the biologists must do throughout the lower Midwest (Missouri, Illinois, Indiana, Ohio, etc.).
Dave Neuswanger
Fisheries Team Leader, Upper Chippewa Basin
Wisconsin DNR, Hayward |
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| Where do you draw the line for the early opener?????? Metro and south, south of Mille Lacs, maybe if we had some more lakes in So MN we could possibly do something but at this point a May 15-20 + - would be devastating as far as angling pressure and harvest goes, if we had 5-6 lakes and the metro to spread it out it may work with increased size limits and something new to to So. MN called proper enforcement (WE NEED MORE C.O.'s) but till then forget it, and if we could get C&R on a partial season we should just do it for the whole season with exceptions of this regulation to be determined by the DNR.
Edited by Muskiefool 6/18/2007 6:12 PM
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| Great topic. I particularily love the replies form some of the MN metro anglers who hassle people who they think are muskie fishing prior to the opener on lakes they know full well have zero natural recruitment. It really makes me LOL.
Thanks for putting a realistic answer on the question Dave N. |
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Posts: 714
Location: Rhinelander, WI | Are closed seasons needed to protect the fish, I find it highly doubtful. Like has already been stated, they have an early C&R season for Bass and that seems more harmful than it would be for musky as the early season bass “sitting on Beds” seems like it would be far more likely to cause damage.
What I do like is the late Northern WI Musky season opener allows me to fish Walleye guilt free the first weekend in May with my dad and friends like we have traditionally done for as long as I can remember. It also gives me an excuse to take May 15th off of work for the MI U.P. musky opener. And then I have the Northern opener on Memorial Day weekend. It gives me two good fishing excuses in May plus the traditional walleye opener. If muskies opened the same weekend as walleyes I doubt I would spend much time fishing for eyes. It truly is a sickness.
If a C&R season came up on a spring ballot I would most likely vote for it as it sure seems to make sense, unless data can be shown that proves it is harmful. What I hate is people who cheat, the great thing about opening weekend is the fish have been unpressured for the entire winter. If people are out there cheating, they are pressuring those fish and that is unfair to the people playing by the rules. If there is no biological reason for the rule it shouldn’t be there. There should be a C&R season though so fish are not removed during the spawn. If the fish make it the entire year give them that chance to spawn while they can before they are removed from the system.
Nail A Pig!
Mike
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| I should also add that the early closing for Dec 1 this year is key to maintaining the fishing we have, the MN DNR has already came to us and asked if it would be ok to lower the stocking on French, this may be the case with every lake in MN I'm not exactly sure, but I do know there is major problems with the VHS issue and the fact that they do not want to buy Muskies anymore, they want to grow their own to help protect our resource, every year the biggest fish get killed and most end up in freezers or in road ditches once the total cost of hanging a worthless piece of skin on the wall comes around, the cost is not solely monetary, allot of family's don't enjoy looking at a 40#'s of rotting flesh adorning the den so they end up in the garage or E-Bay, these fish are especially vulnerable to harvest on these crappie lakes when they are searching for a easy meal to get them by, they are being overexploited in numbers that cannot just be put back, at this time these fish are worth thousands to the anglers and all taxpaying citizens, to put back a 54 inch fish is not only impossible but impractical, I go to the lake to fish, the fish are not mine, I don't own the fish due to my purchase of the license, and it's all our responsibility to do what is right for the resource not what is in our own personal interest, therefore I hope you will all endorse and support the Dec 1 closure the fish need the help and this is a regulation for the resource not for our wants. |
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| Isn't there a movement to shallow water at both ice up and ice out? I always assumed that the reason for a closed season was to protect the fish at these times. I know spearing Pike started because of the shallow movement of big Pike related to ice up and not allowing fishing while Muskies are shallow during the spawn was the reason for the opening date. Let's not lose perspective here. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I'd say no. Muskies also can move very deep during the fall. When they spawn, yes, they are shallow, so I suppose the idea someone might snag a fish might carry a bit of weight, but anyone who would do that probably wouldn't worry much about open and closed seasons. |
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| One of the main reasons the Iowa Great Lakes went to a Dec 1st closed season was because first ice bluegill fishermen were catching a killing more Muskies in a couple of weeks than all the incidental anglers were during the whole summer. |
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Posts: 32885
Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I haven't seen or heard anything like that one IcefishingFIRST or here, Muskies through the ice happen in Wisconsin, but not really often at all from my observation. Must be an anomaly to that system. And, the law in WI isn't meant to protect Muskies through the ice; at least no one from our DNR has ever brought that up. by the way, I really don't mind the closed season, it's fine with me. Same with Bass, even though that has been proven that there is no harm done fishing them C&R only before and during spawn. |
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| Guest, the perspective is not to interfere with spearing or to help reduce Muskie mortality due to spearing, the guys that poke these fish illegally will do it regardless of season or law, the Big fish move to open water and get killed in large numbers(50-100 per year just during this time frame) that's the facts and that's the true perspective, protecting the resource not our selfish needs, 50 to 100 fish is about 10% of the lakes population. |
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