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| Message Subject: Expectations for a guided trip | |||
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| Pro's, My brother and I have taken several musky guides out in the last few years and have found that some guides fish from the front of the boat, some fish from the back of the boat and some hardly fish. I was wondering what is the norm for a musky guide. It seems like if you are paying $200 for 4 hours you should have first water, am I off base on this? Thanks Doc | |||
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| Doc, Your going to get a lot of different views on this one. I personaly fish from the back. A lot of guides don't have the means to fish from the back and still control the boat ie.(foot control trolling motor with cord). If you think you are getting cheated by fishing from the back, then by all means say something to your guide. A lot of guides will let you hop up there next to them, this is a good chance to pick their brains for some valuable info and now you don't have to yell across the boat to them and keep saying "WHAT"!!! Your putting forth good money to learn and hopefully catch some fish. Notice I said hopefully, I think too many people think that hiring a guide means automatic fish in the boat " I WISH". Remember your there to learn a body of water and some pointers on hooking up with some fish, a catch is only a bonus. Don't get me wrong, every guide goes out with the intention of putting their clients onto fish, that is what our goal is. So remember if you don't like what your paying for "SAY SOMETHING", and don't forget to ask questions. "THE ONLY DUMB QUESTION IS THE ONE NOT ASKED" | |||
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| Well you definately should have first water- thats a given-Whether or not the guide fishes should be up to you the client- Long time clients usually want me to,but I never take it for granted.The only thing I ask and most other guides ask -is that you LISTEN.Leave the lure selection,presentation,location etc to your guide.Our stomachs are in knots (as in double reverse clinch )when the client pulls out his/her favorite 3" rapala that they once caught a Muskie on and starts throwing in the opposite of the desired and productive direction.CLEARLY express your desired goals for the day as in action or trophies before the trip begins. Finally- ask a lot of questions-It doesnt bother us and the knowledge you will pick up on even minute details might be priceless-especially from some of the people on this board- HC Meyer Seven Islands Guide Service Pesque Isle Wi. | |||
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| Doc dont think you are off base at all. First water should be for the clients,there is some guides that fish from the back of the boat after the clients and some that fish from the front due to the boat control issue. I will fish from the back when its possible and when its not will still give the first and second water to the clients,just will position the boat backwards on that run. Just remember we are there for you. If there is any questions that you have ask your guide,tell him/her what you are thinking and you might find out that there is a good reason for what they are doing. If you have a problem with your guide fishing from the front ask if you can have first water. We are there to make your trip a learning experance and catch some fish to. Ask questions all day, remember its your time, make the most of it. | |||
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| In my opinion, guides should always fish from the back, to be honest I wouldn't know how to fish from the front, I'd be lost up there LOL. Seriously the clients should have the first shot. As far as the guide fishing goes, ultimatly that should be up to the client. Almost all the time my clients prefer that I fish which in my opinion is a smart move, that way the clients can watch and learn the different technics and ways of working different baits. The only time I choose to stop fishing is when we have a active fish follow-up one of the baits, then I will stop fishing and let the clients work the fish. The most important things to do with a guide is to 1st, let him/her do their job (pick the water,lures and fishing patterns). 2nd, Ask questions (even if you think there dumb) [:)] | |||
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| Chuck and others said it all. I always fish from the back of the boat. I have an extension cable for my Pinpoint. If too windy I have a 9.9 4-stroke or the big 125 tiller to keep us on the spots. I never fish on small spots or in an area where we raised a fish. All depends on the client, some folks have not fished much and I like to demonstrate working the baits, etc. It's your day make the most of it. Communication is the key. Good luck, Murph! | |||
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| Doc,not to worry.You'll get to fish from the back of the boat,cause we TROLL!If you dont behave,you get to sit down and have a Forest Gump moment. I think guides that fish from the front of the boat do it for a couple of reasons. One is problably boat control,second the waters they may fish.If rocks and reefs are involved and you are not familiar with the guides control on his boat,best leave it up to him.I beleive many do not have remote foot control.You would not want to be trashing someone elses stuff,maybe even added extra cost at the end of your trip. Marc | |||
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| Most of the guys have said it already, I always have clients fish from the front, the only time I have first water to a client, is that when I have two clients and I fish in the middle so I can change baits, net fish (hopefully) and work the electric steer trolling motor. Brad Breuer breuerguideservice.com | |||
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| I guided 8 years. 7 years in the back of an Tuffy Esox Magnum and 1 year in the bow of a 1990 Tuffy Esox Deep V. I got to see it both ways, I was very very much agenst front boat guiding..tell I had no choice with the big V hull boat. I am a real sticker on boat control and I knew I could not provide the best boat control fishing with a transum mount trolling motor on the back of the bigger V hull. But I found I was able to still give first water fishing in the bow. I just pitched off structure in deeper water and had one of the clients up in the bow with me taking first water. I made sure my clients got first water...and like always it payed off for them. They were happy and caught fish. I asked the clients what they thought of it..and they all thought it was fine and some prefered it because they could see me and talk to me better. But deep down, I knew most would have rather had me in the back. But personally....I would rather see a guide fish in the back. I did that for seven years and that is why many of my customers returned. | |||
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| I have fished from every spot in the boat, depending on the trolling motor location.Being the guide I will approach a spot by informing the clients as to what type of structure we are fishing and what areas to key in on when casting.I always give them the prime spots to cast at by positioning the boat so they have the chance to do so.I like to see the client have the best chance at the fish because thats what they are paying for and it only makes good customer service in my mind. D'arcy Finlan Darcy's Guide Service www.darcyfish.com/Musky.html | |||
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| I have always guided from the back of my boats, including last year in my new 20' Tuffy Esox Deep-V. My 65lb. thrust Minn Kota Power Drive motor handled things just fine. I just run the cord to the back with the foot pad and I am good to go. I prefer to be in the back so I can watch what clients are doing and give them tips and pointers. If I can teach them one single tip or technique that helps them put more fish in the boat, then that is what it is all about. We are all die hard musky hunters and we all know what it is like to get into the zone. Personally, I would think it would be way too easy for a guide in the front to get into the zone and switch to fishing instead of guiding. I have heard both sides of the story from many many people. Your expectations should include the fact that it is your day. Make sure you discuss what you expect out of the day prior to meeting for the day of fishing. That way, the guide can make sure he/she customizes the trip for you. Open communication is the best way to go! If you expect to fish out of the front of the boat, make that clear from the start. Don't wait until you get on the water - it will make things diffucult and uncomfortable for you. | |||
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| I guess I expect a guide to know what's best out of his boat. He's the one out there all the time, he's the one who fishes for a living etc. The one thing I do expect is to not have to fish used water all day. Maybe I this is all just because I have fished from the back for so long in so many other boats. When I take someone out in my boat I will kind of try to let them work things from the front - I have no rear troller - at least for a while anyway. When I fished for the first time with Mr. Sluggo I was honored to be offered the front deck on his boat. Apparently I did OK, he let me run up there 2 days straight because I knew the lake. Anyway, I digress. I personally am more comfortable out of the front of the boat. That's preference. As long as I go out and learn something while I'm with a guide I'll be happy. I've been doing this musky thing for long enough to know that things don't always go as planned. Fish and weather don't always cooperate and if I learn something and have fun it's worth it. Scott | |||
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| I think it is important to differentiate between "first water" or "prime water". If your guide is running a bow mount electric at the front end of the boat (and fishing), yes - he will have much of the first water. BUT, is he fishing the low percentage water, and perhaps even experimenting with a new bait or tactic? Is he casting only occasionally while taking the time to point out the prime locations on any structure for his clients to fish... and holding the boat in position for the clients to work those areas thoroughly? Is he also watching the clients and giving them tips on their techniques and presentations (rather than madly flogging the water himself)? If you're guiding, and you're going to cast from the front end of the boat... why not take a second and explain your positioning and plan of attack to your clients up front, rather than risk any miscommunication or potential confusion as to your intentions? Anglers call it communication... in business, it's called customer service! Any guide who has control of the front end of the boat and "hogs" the prime water is not someone you should be hiring. You're paying so he can catch fish!!!! And if he is madly flogging the water, chances are he isn't spending a whole lot of time teaching or explaining anything... except perhaps expecting you to handle the net for his fish. That's NOT what guiding is all about!!!! Steve Wickens | |||
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| I'm starting my 9th year of guiding this season. I control my boat from the front, because when I started, that's the only way I could. Now, I have a different trolling motor (PinPoint 3700) and even though I could run from the back, I prefer not to. I fish a lot of river systems, shallow slop and stumpfields. I want to be up front so that I can see any obstructions in the water, I don't want to hit a stump and dump a client out of the boat. I also don't want to run a $25,000 boat up on a rock either. Also, with my PinPoint, if a fish hits, I can just tap the depth control button on the trolling motor and I don't have to worry about the boat drifting into shore or too shallow water. So that's why I continue to run the boat up front. First thing in the morning, I ask the client if he wants me to fish. Some don't, but most want me to fish. Many of my clients have never even seen a muskie and just want to see one get caught, regardless of who does the catching, it's just bonus points if it's them. Either way, fishing or not, my first and foremost concern is the client. I always make sure to give them a demonstration on how to cast and work the lure, making sure they understand. I keep an eye on them, making sure they are working the lure correctly and coaching them if not. I try to explain to them what I'm doing and why I'm doing it that particular way. I try to keep the client's interest up and keep them entertained and informed. Doing this keeps their concentration level up and makes them think a little bit, instead of just mindless casting. If I am fishing, I make sure to halt my personal casting when approaching prime water. While I don't believe in the "First Water" theory, having had more muskies caught from the back of the boat, many people do and are ticked if they don't get it. So I stop fishing until they've covered the structure/weedbed thoroughly. Even then, sometimes, I'll cast into a spot that's been thrown to numerous times and pull a fish! What's a guy to do? But too, when I'm fishing, I'm usually trying a different lure, retrieve, color or casting to deeper water. I want to maximize my clients chances of getting a muskie. The more lures in the water, the better chance of establishing a pattern for the day. And as soon as I get action on a particular lure or retrieve, you can bet that if the lure is different than the client's, he's getting handed that rod, ASAP! As far as what you should expect, you should expect a guide that has clean, decent and safe equipment, who is prompt (but remember that poop occurs) and courteous. A guide is not a "Magic Wand" that can produce fish by waving a wand (gee, I wish though...), so expect a teaching session, ask how, why, what, where and when and expect decent answers. You're buying a person who is going to "guide" you through a day of fishing, not limits of fish or the trophy of a lifetime, although that's great if that happens. Let's face it, it's still called fishing, not catching and sometimes the fishing sucks! So, at the end of the day, you should be able to say "Thanks, I had a GREAT TIME and learned something." That's what you should expect. But that's just my opinion, Steve @ G & S Guide Service and Custom Rods. http://www.herefishyfishy.com | |||
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| Everyone, Thanks very much for your responses. I look forward to going out with some of you in the future. Doc | |||
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| I'll be in my 14th season this year and I have always fished from the back of the boat. I seldom fish more than a few cast here and there, unless I'm out with someone that has alot of time on the water. When out with someone thats new to muskie fishing I spend my time teaching. I enjoy answering questions and you should always get your moneys worth of information. Anybody can take you to a spot to fish, but knowing why your there or, more importanty, why the fish are there is going to help you in the future. [:sun:] | |||
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| Doc I am going on my 7th year of guiding and I have fished from every position in the boat. Only in the last three years have I started fishing second or in the back of the boat. My reason was equipment, having a lever control trolling motor I had to stay in the front of the boat. I will say that I am alot happier guiding from the back and I feel my clients are, too. Gregg Thomas | |||
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