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| Message Subject: Lost a Monster!! Why???????? | |||
RiverMusky |
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Posts: 143 Location: Kentucky | I lost a Monster on Tuesday. A good 48 incher in the 30 pound class easy. That's a Monster to me. I've got 7 in the boat this year and none over 38 inch's. I have lost at least that many if not more. I use to think that I wasn't setting the hook hard enough or doing it right. I upgraded to a heavier rod and 50lb Power Pro. I set the hook on this fish with some good force behind it. My drag slipped when I set the hook. I had it tighten pretty good, but not locked down. I lost two other smaller fish on the same trip. One on a bulldawg and the other's on GR spinnerbaits. I had this big girl on for at least 15 second's.LOL She just stayed down and shaking her head. Then she slowly raised up to the surface and then she really got the headshaking going on. The next thing I knew, my spinnerbait came flying back at me. So, I'm setting the hook hard and in a sweeping motion, I have sharpened all of my hooks to needle point. I didn't give her any slack in the line. The only thing I can think off is that I am tearing the hooks out of these fish. Maybe to stiff of a rod and to much force behind the hook set? I am puzzled. I also understand that this is the nature of the beast. They just go Crazy!! It really suck's when I think of how many hour's I have in chasing Moby, then I lose her and I lose way more than I get in the boat. Can you guy's tell me any other tips or advice that I can put to use? Thank's cpr Chris
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| MeHabeeb |
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Posts: 492 Location: Lindenhurst, Illinois | Sounds like bad luck to me. Sometimes spinnerbaits have a tough hooking percentage. The only thing I can add is that if the fish was thrashing on the surface you need to drive your rod tip under the water to force the fish down. Other than that if you had sharp hooks, a good hook set and a tight line, not much more you can do. | ||
| onelastcast |
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Posts: 91 Location: Oshawa, Ontario | If your hooks are sharp and you have a good medium heavy or heavy rod - when setting the hook do not sweep sideways, just GIVE 'ER straight up and HARD!! If your throwing a spinnerbait or in-line bucktail then your rod would be pointed straight down or halfway down to the water, when you get a hit just lift straight up and, as I said HARD. Re. your drag, I crank mine all the way down and then back it off either a quarter or half turn on the star drag. | ||
| husky_jerk |
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Posts: 305 Location: Illinois | Sorry it happened to you. The only thing I can add is it happens to everybody. I have read countless posts by great fisherman who lose big fish despite doing everything by the book. It's happened to me (not that I am a great fisherman) and it is a thing you can't let in your tackle box. The next time out remember that you were in the right spot at the right time with the right presentation.I bet if you go out a few more times you'll stick a big , fall, season making, pig. Good luck. Husky Jerk | ||
| JAY SBMC |
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Posts: 148 Location: DES MOINES, IOWA | Dave, I am curious on your input on this. Two years ago, one of my sons had a vicious hit on a creeper. The fish hit the topwater, and went straight down with such force, that the tail came straight out of the water, so we knew what he had right out of the chute.My son hammered the hookset, kept a tight line, and hammered it again. He then got the fish to come to the boat by bulling it to the boat without letting any slack in the line. The fish didn,t fight at all, until it got to the boat, then it dove deep right past me, and when it did I saw the jaws open, and the lure came flying out with my son keeping the line tight without slack.In other words, the fish was never hooked from the beginning. It actually had that creeper crushed down in its mouth, without being hooked.I estimated that fish around 54-55", and 45-50 pounds.I had the same situation happen in June 2002 using a spinner bait, but did not see this fish.However, the exact type of fight took place. I set the hook hard, and it was like setting into a log.Immediately, told my son that I had a very large Musky, but I was able to reel her to the boat. When she got to the boat, I felt the release of the lure, and she was gone.This fish was never hooked, either, which is why she came in without fighting.When I do get a hookset right off the bat, I get a fight from the start. I feel a lot of the fish people think they have hooked, especially the big ones, are not hooked at all.They just have the whole lure crushed down in a death grip inside their mouth, without being hooked.What do you think? | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32958 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I lost so many on topwater this year I was convinced I was jinxed. I still have no idea why, the fish were pinned up well, did a couple dreaded head shakes, and were gone. | ||
| lobi |
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Posts: 1137 Location: Holly, MI | Talking about clamped down on the lure with no hooks in 'em is not uncommon. We landed a 20 lb northern on a spoon with the treble hook swinging freely on the side of her mouth. She kept the death grip long enough to net her, was a quick easy release. I have never had one grab a spinnerbait without getting hooked (knock on wood), but there is plenty of lure there other than the hook to grab onto so it is very possible. In my experiance, when a fish is hooked on a single hook, the hookset tends to be much deeper than trying to sink a treble. In otherwords when they are hooked, they are hooked. Single hooks also allow for a faster easier release without trebles getting hooked in the net. I have switched most of my spoons for salmon trolling over to single hooks for the faster easier penetration. I lost a monster King this fall that was on for 5 minutes. Razor sharp single hook, strong hookset. When she let go I thought I had equipment or knot faliure for sure but everything checked out ok. Sometimes the fish just wins. Hooking and losing fish is better than not even having a chance in my book. That is why they call it "fishing" not "catching" I guess. Get back on your horse and get a nice release photo of that pig. | ||
| Thick Shady |
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Posts: 136 | Below is a copy of an email I sent to other Musky Nut's about a situation much like this. I'm interested if anyone thinks this could be a reason. I Do. How many still use pool cues to fish with? The idea always was that you needed a good hookset. This was true when using line that stretched but now that we have the almost zero stretch super lines times have changed. Some anglers haven't..... I am slowly. The difference is now that we have almost no give in our line the fish is able to gain advantanges that it didn't have in the past. When I fish bull dogs it is able to create slack 9in the line VERY easily with a short, stiff rod being used. If the same thing happened with a longer, more flexible rod... the "flexibility" of the rod would create much less slack in the line and give the fish much less chance at coming unglued. I have talked to many different anglers about this and recently had buddies lose a monster fish during a tournament. The reason in my opinion wasn't that the angler did anything wrong except give the fish an advantage by using the wrong rod. Think about situation in which you've lost a fish and what rod you were using? I can think of many situations that others have told me "I got a great hookset!" "I set it three times!" "She threw the hooks" | ||
| MeHabeeb |
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Posts: 492 Location: Lindenhurst, Illinois | Jay, I have had almost the exact same thing happen with a Jerko. Fish nailed it at the side of the boat, made 2 or 3 runs and just before we could get her in the net she opened her mouth and the bait rolled right out. I have never been able to figure out what went wrong or what I could have done differently to change the outcome. All I can really add to my post above is that I believe your chances of landing the fish are greater if you keep its headshakes under the water and not on the surface as I think the fish has a greater chance of creating slack line on top of the water than beneath it. Like I said before, if you have sharp hooks, get a good hookset and keep a tight line, there is not much more that you can do. | ||
| RiverMusky |
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Posts: 143 Location: Kentucky | Thank you all for your advice. The more I think about it, I believe this fish probably did just clamp down on my bait and when I set the hook it didn't move. She hit like a ton of brick's. I thought I had hit a big tree! I tried setting upward yesterday on a fat 38 incher. I got a rock solid hookset and it actually went right in the corner of it's mouth. It's hard to know which way to set the hook when you don't know which way the fish is positioned. This fish went crazy! and I was still able to do the solo net job. Hopefully, I will get a chance to tangle with Moby again next week. Thank's again cpr Chris | ||
| Mikes Extreme |
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Posts: 2691 Location: Pewaukee, Wisconsin | Chris, I have three baits that have teeth broken off in them from muskies this year. Two of them got away before they got to the boat. I am convinced that muskies can crunch a bait and hold it with a death grip until they feel its time to let go. When they want to get rid of a bait they will usually head shake and go nuts. The only thing you can do is try to keep them under the water and a tight line. I know that I have a good hookset when muskie teeth are still imbedded in the bait. When using wood baits I tend to do a double hookset. Set hard reel hard and set it again, never let the bend in the rod leave. This has increased my catch for me, maybe its just luck but it works for me. Most of the fish I have lost this year have came out of the water. Stopping them from clearing the water is the hard part. When you feel them comming up stuff your rod down under the water and reel like a mad man, that help will keep your line tight. Remember, a muskies mouth is mostly bone and teeth. Sharp hooks is a must !!! Quality hooks is very important also. | ||
| Shep |
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Posts: 5874 | Yup, the ole teeth left in the lure deal! Happened to me at Sab Bay 2 years ago on a real pig. Left 4 big teeth in a Reef Hawg. Actually bent open the rear eye! Fish was on, and then gone. When I brought the bait in, the rear hook was gone! WTF!? As far as these fish just clamping down, and not getting a hook in them? I am a believer! Had good fat fish on Lake St. Claire 3 years ago hit a 10" straight Believer. Stripped of a bunch of line on the strike. As I grabbed the rod, I saw it tail walking across the water what appeared to be about 50 yards away. I got the fish in to the boat, and as the guide was going to net it, the fish opened it's mouth, the lure dropped out, and the fish flopped out of the net! I don't think that that fish ever had a hook in her! She just hung on to that bait, and simply let go of it when she wanted to. What power they have in those jaws! | ||
| jlong |
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Posts: 1939 Location: Black Creek, WI | I think Cady raises a good point about stiff rods and the ability of fish to generate slack... especially with the new super braids. BrianF has been hounding me on this very issue for a long time... and for very good reason. However, I'd disagree with the idea that a stiff rod is needed for hooksets. I prefer them for the ability to work a lure the way I like with less fatigue. I'd rather trigger more strikes and lose more fish... than have less strikes, sore arms, and a 100% catch ratio. Ultimately, if a musky is capable of gripping a lure in its jaws to avoid sliding hooks... than a soft tipped rod still won't help in my opinion. I have a pile of Jakes with teeth stuck in them. Heck, the slob I tangled with in Canada left the entire "U" shaped mouth print right in the plastic! Now that's some power if you ask me.... cause Jakes are a tough bait. This was one of those fish you lock up solid with... get a good run... and when they decide to stop and "gator shake" the lure just pops out of their mouth. I'm slowly beginning to believe that even plastic ain't strong enough to prevent a musky from gettin' a grip... and therefore feel many of these lost fish after hook-up are because they were never hooked to begin with. Still puzzles me that they don't get stuck when they let go and the lure slides free.... but that one we can discuss all winter long. Right now... I'd have to say it is simply "Bad Luck". | ||
| Thick Shady |
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Posts: 136 | Here ya go Mr. Jackley.... I'd also like to bring up the sharp hooks issue.... I don't sharpen my hooks unless they are dull as dull can be. I believe many of us over sharpen hooks. super sharp hooks can act like a knife and create a much bigger whole...making it easier to come back out. But more than that I think a super sharp hook can get caught in the harder areas of a fishes mouth... What I mean is think of a Muskies mouth... The top is very hard. I've NEVER seen a large Musky hooked through the top of it's mouth. Dink Pike yes... Muskies no. The top of the mouth is much like ours very hard. If you have a super sharp hook it could get "Caught" in this area of the mouth due to the sharpness of the hook... Take one of your hooks and put it on your fingernail... If you have super sharp hooks it will catch and start to dig in your nail... but if you have a (dull) not as sharp hook it will slide until it comes to your skin... a softer area...much like the edges of a Muskies mouth.... All right go ahead...beat me up. I'm not kidding either... check my hooks. I will say my hooking percentage has sky rocketed.... But I also use longer rods and different line than in the past.. Nuts? YEP!! | ||
| Fishwizard |
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Posts: 366 | By far the most frustrating aspect of muskie fishing is loosing Big fish. I recently had an extremely large fish grab a bait for a few seconds without hooking up. It by far the largest fish I'd ever had hit one of my lures, so I was sick to my stomach afterward. The reasons for loosing them, well there is validity to all the statements above. In certain scenarios a proper hookset is vital, and others where the correct action is simply to apply constant pressure and let the fish do the rest. I have pulled plenty of baits out of the mouths of muskies, just as I've had numerous baits magically pop out without changing a thing. There is no full proof set-up, although there is a middle ground that is liklely most efficeint. As far as stiff rods, well my definition would be like a 6' heavy action St. Croix. I and everyone else I fish with regularly stopped using them long ago and I would be suprised if there was still a large portion of anglers out there still using them, except for specialized situations like walking-the-dog out of very shallow boats. I've come to realize through experience and the tutelage of others that just about every practical presentation can be achieved with 7'6"-8' heavy action rods. Of course, I also stopped chucking everything in my box, and started sticking to a select group of baits that I can get to fit in every situation that I fish. What do you consider too stiff or too soft? Back the point, It comes down to how much you value the hookset. In my opinion its importance is always relevant, but not to the same degree for every situation. Every fish is different. As long as you don't cause the fish to get off, then I agree with Jason that it's just bad luck. There are certain fish were nothing can be done to prevent them from getting off. I did want to comment on the line issue. For a while all I used bass fishing was spider wire. I quit using it and went back to mono after having too many spinnerbaits spit back at me. Do you think that zero stretch line is the best attribute for muskie fishing? Obviously the high tensile strength to diameter ratio is very essential, but would it be better if there was some stretch in the superbraids? Ryan Anderson Edited by Fishwizard 10/28/2003 6:11 PM | ||
| lobi |
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Posts: 1137 Location: Holly, MI | I love the superbraids. I prefer Power Pro or Fins but there is a line for everyone. The no stretch factor is awesome for hooksets and for feeling exactly what is going on down on the other end of your line which can be critical. As far as no stretch for not losing fish, that is exactly what your drag and thumb are for. If you didn't value and use your drag, why would you invest in a good reel? I guess it would be pretty boaring if we all did everything exactly alike huh? If everyone loved Chocolate, there would be no Vanilla | ||
| Fishwizard |
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Posts: 366 | The best drag in the world isn't going to keep tension on your line when you've got ten feet out and four footer starts headshaking furiously. Drag systems apply friction to allow your spool to slip, but they don't pick the slack back up for you. That requires spring pressure, hence the stretch in the line or the flex in your rod. No matter how good you are thumbing the line you can't keep up with every fish, especially when a muskie really decides to move. Ryan Anderson | ||
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