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Posts: 7038
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | That when we're bemoaning that a lake, lake system, river, etc. is declining as a fishery that the fish are just NOT where they were usually contacted/caught by fisherman in the past? |
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| Nope, not possible. |
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Posts: 540
Location: MN | Entirely possible just look to Mille lacs and some of the giants it's still kicking out but, Green Bay is a dead sea because guys can't catch fish trolling 6" shallow raiders anymore. |
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Location: Twin Cities | Slammie - 11/10/2010 4:03 PM
Nope, not possible.
Don't you mean unpossible?  |
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Posts: 619
| i think it might be slightly possible, but not likely.....if an area has been a good producing area year after year for quite a long time - i would say its very unlikely that this area will become a ghost town with no fish.....as for mille lacs with a few big fish being caught - i truly think there a not nearly as many fish in that lake as there used to be. the fish that have been caught are by top notch casters that know the lake really really well - not guys that just show up. so, after some time these guys will catch fish even with the low population compared to what it used to be out there. If i do go out there, its typically miserable and i dont expect to see or catch anything, but know i got a chance at a big one
Edited by Slow Rollin 11/10/2010 4:46 PM
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Posts: 8781
| That's certainly one explanation, and probably the most likely. Just like when the walleye guys complain about not being able to catch walleyes anymore because the muskies ate them all. It's far more liekly that the presence of muskies has changed how the bait fish (and therefore the walleyes) relate to structure.
In this case, I presume you are talking about Green Bay. I don't fish it, but I'd expect that there would be some "decline" just like you'd expect with any relatively new fishery over time. I think we're going to see many newer musky fisheries reach their peak and decline to a more balanced population in the near future. Is that what's going on in Green Bay? I can't say. I DO know it's always easier to blame the fishery when you can't catch fish where and how you used to. That's a lot better for your ego than admitting you can't find the fish, or that you should be doing something different.
In this case? I have to believe that they have transitioned to other areas, just like all muskies do as the season progresses, everywhere they swim. I also think there are probably quite a number of anglers and guides who are seeing more and more boats out there, and really want everyone to believe that Green Bay isn't worth the effort anymore. |
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| Who is complaining about where? |
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Posts: 1529
| funny thing. on lake st clair muskies migrate dnr studies show the split is east and west migration. its basicly wintering and forage. |
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Posts: 2361
| Slamr - 11/10/2010 3:43 PM
That when we're bemoaning that a lake, lake system, river, etc. is declining as a fishery that the fish are just NOT where they were usually contacted/caught by fisherman in the past?
I am thinking that can be the cause of a declining catch rate, and that it can be very significant. Maybe the population of the fishery is as good as ever, but...
what really determines the QUALITY of the fishery? |
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Posts: 743
| I think every lake must be looked at individually. Some lakes it may work that way but not on others. I think fish being fish they don't really have a choice on were to go depending on the seasons. During Summer they can go where ever they want mostly where there's food.. But I think during Fall they must go where nature tells them to go. Wintering grounds are consistent from year to year. I fished a lake that had a predictable bite every Fall for at least 40 years that I know of,but during the last 5 years or so those areas have been less and less productive. The fishing pressure on this lake has also declined over years. I feel that, on this lake at least ,the fish just aren't there anymore in the numbers of the past not that they have moved to other locations. |
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Posts: 8781
| firstsixfeet - 11/10/2010 7:11 PM
Slamr - 11/10/2010 3:43 PM
That when we're bemoaning that a lake, lake system, river, etc. is declining as a fishery that the fish are just NOT where they were usually contacted/caught by fisherman in the past?
I am thinking that can be the cause of a declining catch rate, and that it can be very significant. Maybe the population of the fishery is as good as ever, but...
what really determines the QUALITY of the fishery?
Well... Some will tell you that quality = lots of big muskies. As far as I am concerned? "Quality" = A balanced ecosystem, with natural reproduction, few if any invasives, and little or no problems with pollution, runoff, shoreline developement, etc. Not that anyone care what my opinion is, of course. But lots of big muskies doesn't mean much unless the system that they are in can sustain that population on its own. |
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Posts: 272
| Every water body goes in cycles. Some cycle for different reasons. Some are affected by stocking. This year's weather will no doubt have affects down the road.
-Eric
Edited by muskie-addict 11/10/2010 8:54 PM
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Posts: 1996
Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | Without a doubt. I have seen money spots on almost every lake I fish get burned out largely from pressure from myself and clients. The fish are still around, just not hanging where they used to.
Even the smallest of lakes need exploring to find the new gem of a spot that no one else is bothering the fish on. Even the biggest of lakes can see spots go belly up. |
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Location: SE Wisconsin | Tim Schmitz - 11/10/2010 4:21 PM Entirely possible just look to Mille lacs and some of the giants it's still kicking out but, Green Bay is a dead sea because guys can't catch fish trolling 6" shallow raiders anymore.
Good point.
Mille Lacs is a trophy fishery with an abundant population of fish. Who, with credentials, agrees with the recent blabber about it declining as a fishery... Silly.
...just ask Hammernick |
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Posts: 433
Location: Cedarburg, Wisconsin | Sometimes yes, others no. Different forage species use different areas and when the pickins are slim for one the muskies will key on another. Or sometimes the fishing pressure has just plain killed off the fish, they are gone, that's why they don't bite in the usual spots. Without some accurate information it would be impossible to say for sure.
On a "new" fishery the 1st generation blows up way out of proportion size wise and numbers wise. This comes back to a normal level as the generations progress and may appear as a down population, but in reality it is just swinging towards a naturally sustainable population.
On a "hot" fishery they just plain get killed off from the pressure. |
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Posts: 20218
Location: oswego, il | Base population, forage, pressure, conditioning and lake conition all play a part. Get them all right and the fishing is silly stupid, Get it all wrong and your probably not catching a fish.
Edited by ToddM 11/13/2010 11:13 AM
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