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Posts: 7088
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | Thought we might get some interesting reads on some "this vs. that" bait choices.
When do you run a....and WHY do you?
-side to side (walk the dog) topwater versus a tail/head rotating topwater?
-a tail rotating topwater vs. a head rotating topwater?
-a double 10 bucktail vs. a double 8 (or smaller) bucktail?
-medium rubber bait (8-9") vs. a large rubber bait (10-12") vs. the XL rubber baits (13"+)?
-straight crankbait vs. a jointed crankbait?
-side to side glider (HR/phantom/hellhound) vs. a up and down chop bait (suick/bobbie, etc.)?
The above is just a few off the top of my head but give up your thoughts on when or why you use one versus the other! Or, add your own questions or scenarios!
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Posts: 8832
| Walk the Dog vs tail prop: Calmer water and low light I'll lean towards a walk the dog, or when fish aren't being agressive. Give them a nice target that's making a lot of noise but not really moving very fast.
Double 10 vs smaller bucktail? I will usually opt for the #8 size, like a Shumway flasher. I am more accurate with them. I can pick apart spots better, and I can make more casts. If I want to run deeper and/or slower, then I'll go with a #10, most notably one with heavier blades.
Generally speaking, when it comes to size I'll run the smallest lures that I feel will be effective, and transition into larger lures if smaller (and presumably faster) presentations aren't doing the trick, orif fish are following and not eating.
A giant rubber bait like the pounder? I might throw it if I see a big fish, or I'm in an area where there are likely to be really big fish, but it's just not a lure I want to throw all day long.
Most of the time I really don't think the biggest lures are much of an advantage.
Side to side glider vs. chop? Hmm. I don't really run side to sides much anymore. The left right left right thing has just never worked for me. It's almost like the fish get hypnotized by that cadence and forget they're supposed to eat it.
One difference for sure -- I would probably never run a side to side in July, but I'll sure throw a suick. Now if I could just figure out how to tune the stupid things... |
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Posts: 427
Location: Wausau | I will add to the one area I feel more confident…
Why do I choose the size of rubber bait: Regular vs Magnum vs Pounder/11” Suzy
Regular – I will choice to use the smaller size because of the fish in target, water depth, and lake choice. When I’m looking for a reaction strike from a smaller fish…for example in a tournament. Over shallow weed fishing in less than 6-8 FOW – which for me is very limited and in the Spring when fishing a numbers lake.
Magnum – I will choice to start fishing with the magnum when covering large structure areas at various depths such as weeds, rock, cribs, etc. I like the magnum for its profile, depth control and versatility in retrieve.
Either/Or – I will switch back in forth between the Pounder/11” and Magnum while searching for fish as well. May that be over deep weeds, open water or transition areas. When in doubt, I lean towards the Pounder/11”.
Pounder – I will choice to start fishing with the Pounder/11” while over open water. I learned from others that the size of the lure has more “calling” power compared to the magnum. I will also use the Pounder/11” when fishing deeper sand grass/weeds b/c of it’s profile.
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We all have our preferences...maybe we can learn to explore more options.
Edited by agrimm 12/9/2008 7:56 AM
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Posts: 697
Location: Minnetonka | Nice topic Slamr.
This year I was able to simplify and preserve most of my sanity by utilizing my friends' imparted patience and wisdom (things I was not born with). This year, there were only a few times when I wasn't throwing a bucktail or a large, soft plastic lure... the scenarios were as follows:
Cranks: Post October. Straight, natural colors during the day. Jointed after dark. Big.
In-Line Topwater: In the big wind over shallow cover and rocks. Overcast conditions.
Glider: Cooler water temps... early or late season. Erratic action to trigger neutral fish.
Suick: When I absolutely NEED to raise a fish to get the confidence back up.
Walk-The-Dog Topwater: When I want my heart broken, stomped on, then burned.
hAMM
Edited by Hammskie 12/10/2008 8:29 AM
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Posts: 1296
Location: WI | I'll go up to a dbl 10 from dbl 8 bucktail when it's really windy and pounding on the structure.
Suicks or Smitty baits almost anytime, unless it's too windy to work it and keep the slack out of the line.
Tail props I throw almost anytime. Walk the dog baits I don't really have a rule on...I usually just feel like throwing them cause they're fun to use. Probably not in big waves though, then I'd throw a Pacemaker if I wanted to fish on top.
I only use cranks for trolling. Almost always a 10" Believer...ha!
I don't think I do anything out of the ordinary, I'll throw jerks topwater all season long, any sizes too. |
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Posts: 1310
Location: Washington, PA | A tail rotating top water instead of a spinnerbait because my back hurts. |
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Posts: 376
Location: Lake Vermilion Tower, MN | I have the luxury of fishing the same water most of the time. It gives me a better idea about what is working and what isn't.
I love throwing top water baits, almost to a fault. Walk the dog baits miss a lot of fish, but I'll throw them when it's flat calm. The rear prop style bait is my favorite, they do well in the wind and
they hook up better.
Gliders move a lot of fish for me, so I throw them all year long. Again the side to side motion will cost you some fish, but I think you get more opportunities with the erratic action, so it kinda evens out.
Jerkbaits, like the Suick or Bobbie have been with me for many years. I really like them around the weed edges and over shallow rocks. Many of my customers have a tough time working these baits the right way, because there really is an art to it.
Big rubber baits are in my box, however I don't throw them very often. I do go to a Tube once in a while, but I save the big stuff for trolling in the fall or an occasional one or two cast, before moving on to a new spot. 
"Ace" |
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Posts: 724
Location: Southern W.Va. | I probably fish "new"water as much as I fish water that I know somewhat, therefore my answer is as follows:
Tailspinner topwaters get 4 to 1 more time on the water , I can fish them faster and sometimes use them as a search bait.
I only have 2 head rotating topwaters and should throw them more as I feel they are better if fish seem to be nipping at the bait, they nip at the rotating head and they get a mouth full of hooks.
I don't throw the #10 bladed bucktails very often and would much rather throw my own creations, generally with double #8 colorado blades or #7 Indiana blades. Easier to use and they work .
I have no faith in the large rubber lures on the market today. I have yet to see a fish move on them or see a fish caught on them. I know they are great baits but they are just not fun for me to fish, therefore I don't.
Straight vs jointed crankbaits, I like to throw jointed crankbaits in shallower water, down to about 6' or 7',straight in deeper water.I throw jointed cranks in dirtier water, seem to make more noise
Gliders vs chop style jerkbaits, I throw gliders in any water as long as it's wet and not hard but for some reason I don't seem to throw Suicks or Bobbiebaits near as much as Reefhogs or Phantoms or Sledges or Mantas. Maybe it's a confidence thing plus gliders seem to put fish in the net.
For what it's worth,
Mauser
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Posts: 16632
Location: The desert | Manta and Top raider....because nothing else is worth the time. |
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Posts: 221
Location: Detroint Lakes, MN |
I don't like to throw dbl 10's because everybody else is. I fish very pressured water, and like to use something different. Give me a spinnerbait with a big blade.
Tail props 99% of the time. Walk the dogs don't seem to get any more hits on waters I fish and don't hook up as well.
I don't throw big rubber either. I like the Red October tubes, mainly because they are so easy to use and fish crush them.
JS |
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Posts: 2687
Location: Hayward, WI | I would run a tail rotating topwater when I am searching larger areas for fish that I think at at least a little bit active. Think flats, shorelines, large bars, etc.
Don't even own a head rotating topwater - probably should.
I run a WTD topwater when I think I have fish located in a small area, there is a concentration of fish, when I think fish are near the surface but in a neutral/non agressive mood.
In years past, I always ran smaller, single 8 bladed bucktails. This year, I used Double Cowgirls more, and did well on them. Mostly threw them on a fairly clear lake. I always used to think of them as a bait for loud, windy/choppy conditions, but I had luck on them this year on flat calm days also. The more I use them, the more I think the big doubles work in most conditions. I would probably still downsize to a standard single 8 tail early in the year.
Plastic? I guess I would throw the 9" size early in the year, but would not rule out the mid sized, 11" Sue or 8oz. Super D early in the year either.
Once the water starts to warm in the summer and is in the low 70's, I stuck to the 8 oz. Super D's and 11" Curly Sues the rest of the year. I would have used bigger stuff once the water hit 75 plus too, but I didn't have any bigger rubber to throw this year. Next summer I plan on getting some bigger stuff. I would always experiment between the large and extra large stuff in the summer into the fall, and probably only throw the smaller 9" baits if nothing else was working.
The big baits just seemed to trigger fish, and the average size on the big baits was great.
I would probably throw a straight crankbait if I wanted to impart a lot of jerks, pulls, and twitches. Jointed for extra noise (at night or dirty water mybe). I don't really know about these. Don't use a ton of cranks, so I would have to say experiment and let the fish tell me what they prefer.
Side to side and erratic glider to get the fish to hit. I'm not a fan of the left, right, left, right cadence of some glide baits. I would use up/down chop baits in weeds for sure for their weedless abilities.
If cover is not an issue, I would probably start with a chop bait first. Seems like the hooking percentage is better. If that isn't working, I would go for a walking/erratic type glider.
Last year I used a LOT of rubber baits, a fair amount of bucktails, and some topwater. This is primarily what I see myself using in the future also.
I should get more into the jerkbaits and gliders, but haven't used them a LOT yet. I should learn to break them out when nothing else is showing fish.
Cool topic!
curleytail |
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Location: Des Moines IA | It seems pretty simple to me. If it moves, and doesn't get stuck in the weeds, it's pretty much FOOD! Now I realize there are a million scenarios involved in muskie fishing, but seriously, if it moves, it's food right? |
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Posts: 8832
| Pretty much, Mike. Anything moving through the water is subject to get eaten. Your odds go up greatly though if it's moving through the water in front of a fish! |
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| had 3 fish to 47" eat baits that weren't moving this year...dangling over the side of the boat, while I stook there talking about something.., they ate it...so heck it doesn't even have to be moving for them to chow it down! ; )
one thing that can be said is going to the opposites of what fish followed is a good thing to do...if you are moving fish on slow moving baits and they aren't eating, go fast, if they are following fast but not eating, go slow
if they follow straight moving topwaters but don't eat, go to side to side.
if the follow little cranks but don't eat, go w/ big cranks, and the opposite
if they follow big bucktails fast but don't eat, try little ones slow..
color can be mixed in to with the extremes of what fish have followed...let the fish tell you what they want...trial and error and on the water experience will be your guide.... |
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| Walk the dog topwater if you love the sight of a strike and don't want to deal with the fight, landing, photograph, and release of a muskie. Tail rotating (TopRaider or Super TopRaider) topwater if you actually like catching fish. Conditions don't matter at all for Topwater, had a buddy get a personal best 47"on a bright calm day 3 hours after sunrise on a TopRaider.
Glide baits also excellent for seeing and feeling muskies strike without actually catching them. Chop baits quite honestly about the same story.
Large soft plastics seem to do the job just fine for me in MN and WI and only throw the XL baits as a last resort.
Straight cranks both casting and trolling have always outperformed jointed models in my hands. However my PB did come on a 10" jointed Believer. |
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