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Posts: 199
Location: Nebraska | I love casting 10" Jakes this time of year and have heard of people trolling them. I tried a couple of times last year and the year before to troll them, but they always rolled out fo the water and started bouncing on top. I generally troll D Raiders. Am I trying to go too fast with the Jakes? It seems that I cast out a "full cast length", start trolling, it gets a bite and goes down then almost immediately rolls and comes out. Do I have too much or not enough line out? Do they need to be weighted?
It would be nice to have something in the 10-12 foot range. The D Raiders are ususally bouncing bottom in 18-20 FOW at around 4-5 MPH (estimated) How about a shallow invader for trolling? Just got one and figured it would troll in about that range. |
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Posts: 2091
Location: Stevens Point, WI | It may be that you are using too short of a leader, try a 36" leader and see what happens. I have a couple that troll real well at around 4mph without blowing out. The 8" ones seem to be better trollers for some reason. I haven't tried trolling a shallow invader, but would think it would be excellent for that. |
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Posts: 3518
Location: north central wisconsin | I troll Jakes often and if the eye is just a tad off center, it may cast fine but crap out on the troll. Try bending it to the opposite of the roll out direction first. the hook eyes need to be in line too, and the rear one can alter action a bit. Try trolling a couple different Jakes to see if they all act the same way first though as some just do not troll as well as others. If they all do it, it could be your leader as mentioned above or some other factors. If it is the one lemon, just keep that one for casting duty, however getting that one to run could be the best thing for you. Some jakes have the 'wag' man and shoot out once in awhile while or go slightly out of cadence. If you can harness that. all the better. About 70' of line will get you down about 11' with 80lb Tuff XP on the 10". The 8" will run considerably deeper than the 10", and will track a bit better at higher speeds for some reason, though I really prefer the 10's on most days. Try a bit less line on the DR's too and they'll run just right for you. 25' will get a jointed one in the zone with the line mentioned above at about 3.5 mph, with less line needed for the straights(which I don't use or have data on). Though I have not read them, some of the trolling books would be helpful for your depth/speed control. I think Don Hunt has one out that specifies some line lengths and speeds for musky lures that are probably more accurate and helpful than my chicken scratch. Don't forget that current and temps will play a role in depth of running too. Good luck!!
note: did some more research(9/19-9/22) and some of my older square lipped jakes run a bit deeper than my newer ones, not sure why.
Edited by Reef Hawg 9/26/2006 11:55 AM
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Posts: 227
Location: New Brighton, MN | So if 8" Jakes run better at higher speeds, and run deeper, why do most people still prefer 10" Jakes? Do the 2 additional inches really attract more and bigger fish? How do Jakes compare with DD's and DDD's ? |
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Posts: 786
Location: Minnesota | Stein - 9/11/2006 2:22 PM
It would be nice to have something in the 10-12 foot range.
FYI-The Grunt runs at 15 feet...
James
http://www.gruntmuskielures.com
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Posts: 786
Location: Minnesota | Just to add one more item...
If you want 12 feet with your 10" Jake run 69 feet of 80lb PowerPro.
Source: "Muskymike's Trolling Secrets" This is a must book to have if you want to go trolling. Has a lot of data on some great lures.
James |
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Posts: 1188
Location: Iowa | Muskymikes trolling secrets is a great tool that anyone who trolls consistently should have for reference...I use my CD-Rom edition like it is going out of style...
Big Perc |
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Posts: 199
Location: Nebraska | Thanks for the replies. I'll try a couple more Jakes and shorten up the line on the DR. I'm off to Minaki tonight! I only get to chase skis once a year for 10 days in September. I did get two trolling two years ago, (36 and 37) but going to put a bit more time into it this year. It's kind of funny. When I caught the first one, everyone in our cabin thought it was a fluke. Caught another one the next day and a couple of the guys said they might try it. LOL. We will beat the water to a froth for a fish a day, yet I troll a grand total of 1 hour and caught two. Pretty good MPH, but then stopped and went back to casting.  I guess I just rather catch them casting, even though I know that I probably have my best chance at a big one trolling.
BTW, weather in Minaki was full sun the last six days, the forecast for the next six days showers every day-no sun! Can't wait! |
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Location: Munster, IN | Stein,
You might want to try trolling 9" Grandma baits too.
I prefer them over Jakes.
For some reason they work better for me.
No blowout problems with them at higher speeds.
The 13" grandma is an awesome trolling bait too.
Great wobble!
Typically I run four 9" grandmas on planer boards and a 13" flat lined directly behind the boat
Get the trolling secrects book too, like was suggested.
Good luck!
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| Jake's a totally different bait than DD/DD...flat-sides, wider wobble, different tone on the rattles. 10" in Glitter Perch and Holoform Ciscoe are probably my two best on Georgian Bay. There are baits than dig deeper, but in clear water, but that wide, sloppy wobble pulls fish up even when it's 15 feet+ above the marks on the graph. I've wrecked a lot of 9 and 13" Grandmas on rocks (lips) never bought a bad Jake. They're more bouyant and they have rattles, which I think help on dumb fish, especially when it's rolling and dark in the fall. Pull a lot of 13" Grandmas, and if they don't fall apart, they're great too....much deeper hangers on inside turns, they really dig. 9" Granny's a great deep/suspending twitch bait, like a DDD, with respect with how deep you can work it and how long it will hang. 10" Jake on 40# wire back 45-65 feet gets some big pike every fall, right around World Series. Either on the bottom or out over open water. Jake's Holoform sticker is also more durable than Grandma's in my experience, too. I have Jakes from the early 90's that still run and the fastest I've demo'd a 9" Grandma was two year ago on the Lower French, holoform tape was off in big chunks within 4 hours, lip fell out the same morning. |
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| Just wondering how some of you troll with 50+ feet of line out? Are you trolling exclusively open water?
If I put out more than 30 feet of line out I usually end up with weeds on the bait in a matter of seconds. Most of the time
when I'm trolling the depth contour variates like 9 feet one second, 3 feet the next, 40 feet the next, 6 feet
the next.
How do you keep your baits from getting fouled or are you just fishing deep water? It's a pain reeling
in your bait every two minutes cleaning weeds off especially when the bait is 100 feet back. |
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| Breaks that sharp and especially that shallow, I'd be casting 'em. Baits trolled only run as deep as you let them. 9 feet of water put a Jake 8-20 feet back. Fish one level at a time. Passes with the boat in 40 feet, then try the higher spots, possibly by casting to them. Learn the spot so you can fish it without plowing thru the shallow stuff and blowing it, breaking off or hitting something with your boat. Every spot can be trolled, you just gotta know how much line out and where/when to turn. |
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| I'll take grandmas over jakes any and every day for trolling.
I have had a number of them crack, fill with water.
Kills the action for trolling.
No problems with the grandmas I have.
Too each there own.
I do like the ernies for deep water presentation.
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Posts: 3913
| The biggest fish I ever caught trolling was on a 7.5" Grannie, the most fish I ever caught trolling were on a 10" Jake.
I had a spell of fishing that may be worth describing. Late enough fall that all the wet stuff in the boat was freezing as evening turned to dark. Pulling a 10" weighted-to-suspend Jake along the face of a wind-blown-all-day 6-8' weed edge getting on real dark. Deal was, no fish unless I hit and ripped clean out of weed tops. Lots of the time I had to reel in and clean the bait. I didn't have much line out, maybe 40', using the trolling motor on my little boat, going slow. Pass after pass, if no weeds and rip out clean, no hits. Hit weeds and rip out clean, hits. This is dark time, now, with the wind still blowing maybe 10-15. No action while it was still light, for hours earlier, and I casted the wind-blown edge described above. Ripping clean out of weed tops after dark made all the difference that evening. It was pretty cold, though. |
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| sounds like everyone got you covered on the jakes and grandmas,but i noticed the shallow invader you mentioned!!! you can troll anything you can cast,and it will run about six feet deep with about 80ft out!!! and dont put it in a rod holder,leave it in your hand and give the lure action!!!! you can also add wieght to your shallow invader at the front split ring for casting,giving it a suspend!!!! works awesome!!!! fred. |
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