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| Message Subject: Guide Question-Why Do You Guide? | |||
Steve Jonesi |
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Posts: 2089 | I want to know the motivation for the vocation.When did you start and why?How many "dates" a year?Full or part time.Some reasons are obvious. Love of the fish/waters/outdoors.I'd like to see posts from guides all over the country. and Canada too.Doing some research/Due Diligence and want to hear firsthand what you guys have to say.What keeps you going?So many claim to never mix business with pleasure but in this case it obviously CAN work.Be honest(brutally if necessary) and let your fingers flow. Here's your sounding board.Thanks in advance for your input. Steve | ||
| crippler |
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Posts: 116 Location: winnipeg manitoba | i love to put people on their first muskie. the look on their face is something that will stay with me a lifetime. it has also allowed me to expand my personal tackle, which without guiding i could not afford. i love to share knowledge and teach people the how's and why's of muskie fishing. it has allowed me to build a real strong repeat guest list. word of mouth is the best advertizing you can get, if you treat people right and show them the fish they will help build your business. i probably guide 60 days a year and tournment fish the rest. the best part is the friends you makeover time. some guests don't need me anymore but continue to come up and it is more of a social visit with fishing involved than a guided trip. i love what i do and the passion and energy are easily transfered to the guests. hopefully in the next couple of years i will be able to do this full time. thanks for reading and allowing me to share some thoughts. | ||
| lobi |
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Posts: 1137 Location: Holly, MI | To add a bit to Steve's question.. It does seem like the ultimate "job" to have/get to fish for a living. Some days it must still seem like a Job. Days when you don't want to go to work, clients you want to push overboard, lost equipment, birds-nests to beat the band, etc. I hired a guide a few yrs back for fly fishing for steelhead. I put more flies up in trees than you could shake a stick at. As fast as I could break them off the guide was there with another rod tied up and ready to go. He was smiling all day long. I did notice that he slowly shifted to cheaper simpler flies as the number of lost ones grew. I learned just enough to be dangerous on my own but had a blast. The fee and tip was well worth the learning experiance. Anyway, I digress, how many days does it turn into a "job" vs. days that are a pleasure to be guiding? I am envious (I think at least) of anyone who can do this for a living. | ||
| Jomusky |
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Posts: 1185 Location: Wishin I Was Fishin' | This is a great post. I have been contemplating a guide license. I don't know if guiding would make work out of musky fishing to the point that I would consider it work. If that would be the case, I don't think I would do it. Like crippler stated, though, I enjoy introducing musky fishing to inexperienced people. Especially popping their cherries! | ||
| esox-dan |
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| Steve, I started big game and fishing guiding when I was 18. I am now 34. I was an avid outdoorsmen growing up always loved Hunting, fishing, trapping etc. Being pretty good at the things that I enjoyed, in other words it came pretty easy for whatever reasons. So, I took it to the next level, guiding full time. My guiding experiences have taken me many places, from WI, Idaho, Alberta, BC, Yukon, not to mention all the trips throughout the country with just being involved in the business took me. In the beginning its a passion, you love what your doing, little do you know that the learning has just begun. Before when I was fishing or hunting on my own and was pretty good at, now you have someone along who is a novice or worst yet a know it all. Now you are learning patients(which will be the test of time) you learn innovative techniques and revise methods daily. You will cater your style and techniques depending on the person or persons that you are guiding. You can be the best hunter or fisherman on the planet, but if you are not a "people person" do not attempt this business. There will be many days with adverse conditions and problems that are out of your control that you have to deal with respectfully. Guiding can be at times like being a modified babysitter. Guiding will increase your knowledge tremendously about the game or fish that your after. You are out in the elements every day, you know what worked yesterday, but not the day before. You figure out a lot of "why's?". Being in the business you will be surrounded by other professionals, information exchange is (usually) not a big secret because you will not use it against that person out of respect. Is guiding easy? Heck no! Can it be fun? Heck yes! You will have return clients that you are just as anxious to see as they are with you. You get to know them, just like a best friend. There will also be clients that wherever you want to go or attempt just because you want to try something new, their game, just like a buddy. Then there will be some that you just don't "click" with, these clients can be difficult! Then you have to make the best out of it. Now your praying for a little luck, especially when the conditions are not favorable. This is when you need to shine, this is when you as a guide are tested! With guiding comes many more experiences, which brings knowledge, which brings confidence, in turn brings success. Guiding is a job! Its not a factory job, but a job the same. As in a "regular" job there will be good days and bad, times you just don't want to go out, there will be days that you know the conditions are going to be difficult all day. What keeps a GUIDE going? Goals. Short and long term. As many jobs may not have this motivation, guiding does. From my own personal experience set your short term goals reasonable. As far as your long term goals, set them so you don't think it will happen, set it HIGH! If your long term is to guide or catch a 54" musky, that is quite a goal, but from what I know it can be done on certain waters. I would set it higher! You don't want to play the numbers game when reaching your long term goal, like 5-54inchers. Last thing about the Mixing biz with pleasure. It is a serious issue. You will get burnt out at times when doing it full time. I would recommend doing it part time untill you completely know the business, also for other reasons. For example: Let's say you were guiding full time for muskies and at the end of the week, then the weekend comes that you don't have to take anyone out( I know this is not always the case) and you have everything ready to go for your next trip. What will you do? go muskie fishing? go walleye fishing? or will you go fishing at all? That only you can answer at that time in your career. My point is that you can get wore out, you will not always have the motivation that you started with. It can be a problem when your leasure activities don't include something that you once had a passion for. Sorry about getting long winded! I could go on, and on... I hope that I have helped in your research, Dan Edited by esox-dan 4/1/2004 2:20 AM | |||
| Trophymuskie |
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Posts: 1430 Location: Eastern Ontario | For me it was easy, I had been musky fishing for 6 years and was really lucky at it. I had no problems boating big fish even tho I could only get out once a week in the summer and twice in October. Even when I took a week long vacation I was only putting in 40 hours of fishing, business and familly was more important. I had thought before about guiding as my semi retirement and planed on doing it much later but there was a turn in my life in 2000 and I decided it was the right time to do it. I guided over 80 days last year and will most likely reach 100 this year. Repeat business and an extended season will keep me guiding fulltime from now on. I have made many friends guiding and some come up every year and others every second year and make new ones every year. I love popping cherries and getting some veterants their biggest fish of their life. When I started a couple of things I had to think about and they had me worried. One was that even tho I had no problem catching big fish on a constant bases but that was fishing the best times and only once a week, so my question was how well will I do when I have to fish for multiple days in a row from 8 to 6. Now this would include catching fish as well as not getting sick of fishing, last thing I wanted to do and make it a job that I would hate. My second year of guiding I answered the catching fish portion when I did a stint of 13-14 days in a row and only got skunked once and last year when the river froze up here I took off to fish for myself on the Larry for 3 days. I also was worried that I would have a hard time handing the rod over with a big fish on while casting or trolling but my second client caught two 52 inchers and the feeling I got from watching a groan man act like a kid from the joy of catching the biggest fish on his life in the am and then an even bigger one that afternoon well I knew this was it for me. It's not all roses as you have to go when you're booked and have no choice. You may be sick, tired or it's been raining for 2 days straight or the fishing sucks ect ect. But the benifit is I get to do what I love on a fulltime bases and to me the best part of muskie fishing is the chase and I have no problems watching others catch big fish after big fish. But I must admit that I am blessed for living so close to one of the best fisheries in the world and I am lucky enough to have "it" wich lets me guide veterans and rookies alike to their fish of a lifetime. One of my goals this year is to get out more between guiding trips, last year my other business stopped me from doing it. And Dan some of us are blessed enough to have a goal of 5 over 54 in a year, we caught 3 last year so why not shoot higher. | ||
| Gander Mt Guide |
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Posts: 2515 Location: Waukesha & Land O Lakes, WI | Let me preface this by saying that I'm not a Musky guide, but guide for salmon and trout on great lakes tribs. I began doing so to promote a new fishery in the Milwaukee River and to help customers at Gander choose gear and use techniques through seminar speaking. Basically, I began guiding to help others decrease the learning curve and not have to go through all the trial and error that I had to. Edited by Gander Mt Guide 4/1/2004 8:09 AM | ||
| 7Islands |
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Posts: 389 Location: Presque Isle Wisconsin | My Parents lived on the Wolf River in the Langlade Wis area.I got pretty good at catching Trout on the Big river and the feeder streams and picked up pocket money showing guys the right rocks to pitch a fly behind. My dad was interested in Muskies and I took several trips a year with Him to row the boat for Him as he had lost an arm in WW2.I liked the little lakes in Vilas county and when I got a job I bought a peice of land that spanned Papoose lake and Katinka.Still here today. Let me say that guiding today is vastlty different from years ago for any number of reasons,at least in Wisconsin.The number of resorts are much fewer and familys vacation differently than they did years ago.The sport of Muskie fishing has grown,but walleye fishing compared to years past is a sham and that used to be the bread and butter of the business.Before technology and information about fishing in general became widespread it was fairly easy to fill a book for the year.Someone starting out now and trying to do it full time would have ,in my opinion, a very hard time making a decent living,especially if they have a family etc.Part time is another thing altogether and could work out. Having a good winter job and health benefits are very important. Taking people fishing for money is different than going out on your own.Granted, it looks good if your siting in an office cubicle and wishing you were on the lake,but it does become a job and one with significant pressures. I fish virtually evry day of the open water season and most of it has to be adapted to whomever is in the boat.Many days I wouldnt be on a certain lake or fishing for action fish, but I know its what they want or need to be doing.I get jealous of people I see that arent guiding and can choose anyplace and time they want to try for trophys.Many days I have to do that after a ten or eleven hour guiding day. The book has to be built over a period of years where you can "cull" out the clients to at least find some that will go for big fish. The truest thing ive learned over the years is that if people would listen,observe and utilize what your showing them regarding methods,places and times they would be a lot better at fishing. The pressure on Muskies in smaller lakes is significant now and demands different approaches to consistently take big fish in the waters of Northern Wis. Some of these approaches Ive learned on my own through failure and some others from clients that fished for other species and I adopted for muskies.Right now you see a lot more soft plastics being utilized and they are great;However those big fish are going to used to seeing those tails on every conceivable bait and begin to lose interest,so a guide worth His salt is already anticipating that and searching fo the next thing that they havnt seen that will trip the triggers on the bigger fish. Guides that stay in business try to stay ahead of the power curve for whatever species they hunt for period. Money wise,guiding never was and probably never will be a way to get on easy street.Branching out into other related fields like TV shows. books,lure building etc is very limited and geting saturated already.Having said that if you can start part time build the business and have a good winter job it can feed the family. The expenses,are horrendous and need not be listed in detail.Most of my clients have a better boat and accesories than I do(hopefully next year). I think to stay in the game now or in the near future you are going to have to have or develop a signature method that not a lot of other guides employ and one that is able to consistently take bigger fish than your knowlegable clients can find on their own. Show them something they dont know and they will be back or reccommend you to someone else. Let me finish by saying that you cant learn to fish in Wisconsin by fishing in Canada ,Illinois,kentucky etc. They are all different challenges and require different methods.Before you become a guide pick the hardest lake you can find at the worst season on the worst day and when you can consistently adapt and take big fish from it ,think about becoming a guide.Tony Rizzo said that best some years ago and it still rings true.Guiding is a business that includes what is commonly referred to as failure on a daily basis.If "failing" drives you to improvise adapt and overcome then guiding might be your forte. Most guys know as much about Muskie fishing as a guide nowadays, the seperation is all about will and attention to the smallest details,which comes from understanding the total environment you work in. | ||
| guideman |
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Posts: 376 Location: Lake Vermilion Tower, MN | Because I can't sing or dance!  I have been guiding for 15 yrs now, the good days far out number the bad and I am my own boss. I average about 115 trips a year however I could do more. My main reason that I do it, I love it! There isn't anything on earth I'd rather be doing than Muskie fishing on the Big V. A great friend of mine once said, "Man this is even better than sex"! Beleive me at my age It's a pretty close call! | ||
| nwild |
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Posts: 1996 Location: Pelican Lake/Three Lakes Chain | I was warned several times before I started not to make something I love to do a job. Thankfully thus far it still isn't a job. In order to be successful at it however, you do need to be a good people person. Actually not just be a people person but you have to genuinely enjoy others company. I made my way through college by tending bar. You need a lot of the same skills and qualities a good bartender has, to be a guide. The ability to listen and entertain will go along way when the fish aren't cooperating. The key thing you need to have and want to do is teach others to fish. If giving up your hot techniques, and yes, your very special spots bothers you, you can't do it. These people are paying to get your best, and you can not hold anything back. I love to see others catch fish in my boat. This is what drives me to keep giving years of lake experience away in a single day. I've never minded doing that, and its probably my biggest fault in musky fishing, I cannot keep my mouth shut. If someone asks me about patterns on a boat landing I will tell them. It is very rewarding to see someone's excitement from catching there first, or there biggest from my boat, or from a tip I gave them. That is why I do it. | ||
| Steve Jonesi |
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Posts: 2089 | You guys are the best!Thanks and keep 'em coming. Steve | ||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32901 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | I got my first Wisconsin Guide License in the 70's. It was a button that one wore on one's hat. Still have it somewhere here. I guided because I saw that as a way to make a living, or at least part of one, while doing something I truly enjoy. Fishing with new clients proved to be a far better experience than I imagined, and many repeat clients became lifelong friends. In fact, one of my clients from the early 80's is going to the Goon MuskieFIRST outing, and bringing a group of friends. Guiding is a multi-faceted job, many days. Comedian, entertainer, educator, peer, friend, confidant, weather man, sonar expert, knot master, backlash remover, net man, soothsayer, medicine man, photographer, arbitrator, mediator, poet; all can be a role on any given day. I will again guide for a living someday. Until then, I will guide as much as time allows, just so I don't lose my 'touch'. Some days, guiding takes a large sense of humor. An old book I have by Webster and Zern called "To Hell With Fishing" says this about guides and clients: "No wonder normal people can't stand fishermen. Fisherman can't stand each other. They have to pay people to keep them company. Guides are people who can stand anybody. For seven dollars a day and their keep, they will associate with fishermen. For eight dollars a day, who knows WHAT they would do. In the evening, guides sit around the campfire and spit in it. They like to hear the sizzle. After a day of fishing, it makes sense. My friend Lyman Clark went Moose hunting. He asked his Indian Guide what he should do. The guide took him to a clearing and said,"You sittum down on stump. Me blow birchbark horn, makum noise like cow moose in heat. Bull Moose, he hearum. Run like hell ketchum cow. Me keep on blowum horn. Bull Moose runnum in clearing. You shootum. You shootum good. You no shootum, moose rapum guide!!" Fishermen call guides 'picturesque'. Guides call fishermen 'sports'. Other guides know what they mean." Ed Zern had a great sense of humor. | ||
| tomyv |
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Posts: 1310 Location: Washington, PA | Jonesi, from what I've read, you will do well with it. | ||
| KidDerringer |
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Posts: 244 Location: Mallard Island Lake Vermilion MN | Many, many reasons for me, but mostly cause I like being outside on the water and showing other people a good time hunting up a fish of a life time. Being able to control what I do, when and where I do it, with whom, for how long and how MUCH JACK!!! For me It's all about being outside, going one on one with the fish, Mother Nature and eating a lot of of Footloops Daddy O. You in for anything esle your not living. T. | ||
| Kingfisher |
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Posts: 1106 Location: Muskegon Michigan | Hi guys, I started guiding in 1999. We fish all over Michigan and am to my Knowledge the only inland waters guide in Lower Michigan. We are not licsensed for Lake St. Claire and that does not bother us at all. Last year I did 9 trips part time and the best was when 7 year old Jimi and his dad boated over 20 Pike in 5 hrs. He got his first pike casting and then got 8 or 9 more after that. They are booking us for a Musky trip when the kid is 12. I like the fact that all my gear is tax deductible and as we make lures as well this works very well for us. I dont have the great waters yet to go full time but our fish are growing and my fishery is getting better every year. I thank Muskies Inc. and our D.N.R. for thier efforts in stocking my states inland lakes which is expanding my areas of good fishing. Most of my clients are first timers and its a riot seeing the faces when a 40" class fish takes a shot at thier bait at boatside. Ive had several guys have to sit down after this experiance. All in all I love being on the water and its nice to get a paycheck every so often from a happy client. I look forward to the new fisheries we are groowing and who knows,in another 5 years we may be doing it full time. Kingfisher | ||
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