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| Message Subject: Spoonplugging...whats the secret! | |||
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| Interested in learning how to use wire? What speeds? What depths? What type of leader? What type of rod? What type of reel? What type of wire line? What size spoonplug? Sorry I dont have many questions. I am just interested in one form of trolling I have not done. | |||
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| Ask JerryB...from Hickory N.C![;)] | |||
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| I think it's the 800 series.I know people who use them with some good result.I too will be running some this summer.I'am miss out on a forgotten lure,They tell me they just vary line out to the speed they go.Sure I'am sure it's a learn as you go.So true of this sport.I don't know if it because nobody believe a 6 dollar hunk of metal can out fish a $40.00 work of art???????Didn't someone say something about keeping it simple,Find fish, stick it in there face,[:bigsmile:] and hope they take it.Yeah easier said then done.I know they run 30 to 50# superline,same rods that they cast with,knowing the lake depth they might be running them from 12 to 20 feet down.I can't say for sure with speed but I don't think they get into hyper speed with them,6500 garcias.Nothing fancy!If I don't post in the next few days or suddenly vanish you'll know the truth[:devil:] But I haven't done for myself yet,this is just hearsay,[;)] Blummer | |||
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| Ok, here's my spoonplugging story... Fishing one mid-summer's morning on a popular 300 acre SW MI lake I watched two guys trolling around in tight little patterns. I mean, they were buzzing right along, snaking their way with no particular direction in mind. Sometimes they did small circles! They stayed just off the drop off and they often went out over deep water (never the shallow stuff). Used short little rods, I thought they were glass rods because they were white. I never saw anything like it. [:0] They were making me dizzy. But they were making me wonder, too, because in 3 hours I saw them catch 4 decent fish. I figured they might have caught more, too, because I wasn't watching them all the time. At one point they were buzzing past me and I gave them the wave, pointed at them and gave them the universal thumbs up. They turned and came on over, cut the motor and said howdy. I said the same and they asked, "Did a front come through here last night?" Well indeed it did and they were from Chicago, 4 hours drive away. They said, "Oh, that explains it." huh? They went on to say they had fished the lake for 8 hours the day before and boated 14 fish, 2 in the low 40"'s. Best day they had ever had, they went home last night and came back this morning. "It's really slower fishing today." said the one. I asked what the hoodaddy hell they were doing??!!!! to achieve that success?? By this time the boats were right alongside and I could see - spoonplugs (though at the time I was oblivious, never heard of them or Buck Perry.) That's all they had, too, boxes and boxes of spoonplugs. They had no other type of tackle. Used short fiberglass rods and no stretch, maybe wirecore line. The one guy pointed at my boxes and said, "I use to haul all that tackle around, too, but I found I caught 10 times more fish spoonplugging. I finally sold everything and now I just spoonplug." Well, that's my story. I've read an article or two but haven't really tried the basic technique: spoonplugs troll at fairly precise depths regardless of the boat speed. This keeps your bait in the targeted zone while you cover and recover structure, even circling through and around schools of baitfish. (Or something like that.) | |||
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| Great question - Before I respond to your question I would like to say I am not affilliated with Buck Perry in any way. As you will see, I am very high on his products and believe they work. I use them quite often, but do not limit myself to his lures extensively. Secret to Spoonplugging? None, it's just a method of fishing that works without the "quick fixes", (fancy lures, boats, etc). Basically desinged to catch Largemouth Bass. However, if you study his methods, you will see that his methods used by themselves or in conjunction with other's methods, electronics, etc., can be adapted easily to catching any type of fish. Spoonplugs, as mentioned, were invented by E.L. "Buck Perry." He was a college professor and scientist that decided that he would rather fish for a living than teach school. He lives in Hickory, NC and is in his eighties. "Knowledge is the key to success" - Buck made this statement over 50 years ago. His methods are not a "quick fix", but a scientific method of catching fish if you study and work at it. Here are a couple of answers to your questions and some other info for you: Structure fishing; Buck Perry is known as the "father of structure fishing." He is credited with inventing it and was the first person ever to use scientific methods (as we now call them)to catch fish. His methods (and products) work in fresh and salt water. Book: Spoonplugs, Your Guide To Lunker Catches: I met Roland Martin (he is from Maryland, my home state) back in the late 60s. In a seminar he was speaking in, Roland stated that Buck's book was the best book ever written about structure fishing. After hearing Roland say this, I bought the book. Believe me, it is a no-nonsense, get to the point book, that will teach anyone to be a better fisherman, and as far as I am concerned, STILL is the best book ever written about the subject. The book is still available at about $20 and is well worth it. Nothing was written in the book about electronics (they didn't exist when he wrote the book). However, the methods in the book really work and can be used with electronics as an aid to make you a better fisherman. There are also videos available if you want them at affordable prices. There's also a series of books available (sort of a course in fishing) that is available. It expands on the first book and costs a lot more. I believe that the original book tells you basically the same thing for a lot less money. Spoonplugs are metal and come in different sizes and colors. The smaller sizes run shallow and progressively run deeper as they get bigger with the same weight line. Great wobble when you troll or cast them. I think they are more of a trolling lure than for casting. They can be casted, but I don't particulary like them for that. Compared to Musky plugs, they are very inexpensive with the most expensive lure costing around $8.95. These lures are especially good in lakes with little wood in them or other things to get hung up on, and are made to run on, or near the bottom. Buck says that lures are only tools and says in his book that if you can find a lure to do the job right, it doesn't matter if it's a Spoonplug or not. Do Spoonplugs catch fish? Absolutely!!! And they are strong enough to hold a Musky. Wire line: Buck claims you get twice the depth with wire as you do with mono. A mono leader is used attached to a snap. No wire leader is used as far as I know. I don't like wire (I've used 27 lb monel wire) and would rather use small diameter braid. The best rod for using them is called a "Spoonplugging Rod" (orginal name isn't it!! ). They are 5 1/2 feet long and are made of SOLID fiberglass, have fuji handles and stainless steel guides with a carbolay tip (just in cast you use wire) $50-70. I use this rod specifically for my propwash rod. It's also a great rod to hold (that's what it's meant for) while trolling, and really telegraphs the vibration of the lure back to you. It is not for casting. This little rod will fool you if you just look at it and don't try it out. Although small, it is very strong, has great backbone and you can feel the vibrations from your lure very well. It is also very affordable. Reel: Buck recommends the Penn Mag 10. It is small, tough, and has a great drag. It also has adequate line capacity. Very affordable in the $50+ range. It is a trolling reel. Line: His line is called "No Bo" line. It is very stiff monofilament with very litte stretch. It is metered (colored) every ten yards to help you determine how much line you have out. It is very reasonably priced. I have tried it and like it. However, braid will work just as well. Terminal tackle: I don't believe Buck used wire leaders. However he would use a snap for attaching the lure to the line. Not sure about a swivel at the other end. Spoonpluggers of America: This is an organization for people interested in his methods. There's a monthly newsletter with Buck's tips in it. There are also seminars and clubs you can join/attend. I think you can get information about it from his website. Why haven't most people heard of Buck or his products? Buck never got into the fancy advertising, etc. to promote his products. However, he developed something that was meant to catch fish without ripping people off. His methods and products work. Basically, he develped structure fishing and others use it (some of them even take credit for it)without even knowing who invented it. - nuf' said. I have a link to him on my website. You can purchase most of his items there without having to take out a bank loan. There's also a catalog (I think it is more complete than the website) available if you call his office. It is listed under Books/Videos and also under Muskie Links. I also have a section about wire line fishing written by Buck. [:bigsmile:] | |||
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| Thanks muskiekid, One more question...why go Mach III? I see spoonpluggers every summer and they are going at least 7mph. | |||
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| why the short rod? If I were to start using spoonplugs with my 7'6" classic cat St.Croix (1/2 glass, 1/2 graphite) spooled with 80# Tuff Line, would that do ok? I also have Daiwa linecounter reels on them as well. | |||
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| GregM, My Dad was/is a Perry spoonplug Muskie angler, and did very well with them at 5 MPH, digging that spoonplug into the sand on the breaks. He used a 7' Wonder Rod. There were many fishless days on Bone and other lakes in the sixties/seventies when the spoonplugs were the answer. Since we can't troll up here, I mostly FORGOT about the technique!! Great lures, if one likes to troll.[8)] | |||
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| That just it,when nothing else is working these guys pulling spoonplugs are atleast get action.In my area that late summer early fall,there just deadly.Blummer | |||
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| Back in the late 70's I did a ton of spoon plugging. I read Buck Perry's book and did what he said and yes I did catch fish. In recent years I have modified from the original. Like muskiekid and Buck Perry said, with the wire line you will get twice the depth. That my have been true 30 years ago, but with the new advancements with mono and super lines I don't feel that way any more. Wire line has it's time and place but it can be troublesome. Shorter rods where all that were available back then so that was what you used. With the "no stretch" of wire the longer (8 to 9 foot) rods work better. The reel is the same, Penn 109. You wouldn't want to fill a 209 with 300 yard's of wire! I'm not sure if they make the 109 anymore, but I see they have a narrow version of the 209 that would work. As far as the speed, you wanted to cover as much water as possible looking for active fish and trying to trigger a strike. | |||
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| http://www.americaoutdoors.com/spoonplugger/index.html Is the website for Buck's Spoonplugging brain trust. You can also order lure through this site, I recommend ordering his book as a 'must read', but with lure set orders comes a very condensed version of his works. m | |||
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| Why go Mach III? Good point. I don't know why other than to cover water faster. I don't think it's necessary. However, the lake I fish most of the time is electric-only. I use a small boat and troll quite often with a speed of 1 1/2 to 3 mph. I can also use planers. I have also used two electric motors on my boat wide-open and have caught fish then also. Small rod: I do not use this rod in rod holders on the sides-too short. However, it's a great rod for the propwash, and for holding while I troll. Something very comfortable about it, kind of like wearing the right glove. I also use Spoonplugs on my longer (St. Croix, etc. rods.)"real" Muskie rods. Although it's small in length, it still works well to pressure the fish and will not break from the sudden jar of a fish hitting it or getting hung up in the trees. The lake I fish is full of underwater trees - I get hung up on them all the time. I don't think tubular fiberglass and especially graphite could stand up as well. Will it hold up to the monsters up North? Don't know. Most of the fish I catch here in Maryland are Tigers and are in the 15-20 pound range. As I said in my earlier post, don't be mislead by the looks of this rod. Try it to find out. This is a special purpose rod built for Buck's methods. It works well for those methods. Perhaps the more modern rods and reels will suit your purposes better. After all there have been tremendous strides in making light, powerful and sensitive rods at affordable prices. Reels: I also use linecounters and 6500s. Line: I like the braids better - that's what I use. Summary: As an amateur (I fish 2-3 days a week), I have adapted/mixed Buck's methods with modern methods (depth finder mostly)and equipment that I have found out about from people on the "boards". I have found that they work for me on occasion. They don't always work!!! I believe that most of us who use ANY form of scientific fishing today are using methods similar to/or exactly the same as Buck's. Do we need Spoonplugs or any of his other equipment? As Buck says in his book, lures (and other equipment)are only tools. Those tools worked best for him. If something seems to work for you, use it. Interesting...we all have the same information available (books, videos, seminars, etc)to make us better fisherman. Others are willing to pay enormous sums for the "magic" lure!! For some reason, some of us are better than others. I know people (and I'm sure you do too) that it doesn't matter which end of my boat they sit in, they will always catch more fish than me. Perhaps they see the little things others of us miss? That's why they call it fishing rather than catching!!! | |||
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| Before I start, (I'm not to sure I should add anything,, besides,,, I'm sold! [:bigsmile:]) I just want to say that this, (spoonplugging) as stated above is a method,,, in fact I know many, many, primarily casters only, that have as much, or more success than most spoonpluggers. Spoonplugging is not easy,, it's like any thing else, there is a learning curve involved and only the stubborn will see some success,,, soooo,,, just because you tie on a spoonplug and start running around the lake wildly at 10mph hoping the fish are gonna come running, let me tell you,,, you'll have a long, long wait! But of course you know better than that. (I hope,, but then again when I see guys spend big coin a shinny new bait I often wonder,,,,) Also as mentioned above whether it be a lure,, or your boat,,, they are "tools", Buck says "if your tools don't allow you to control the depth and speed of your bait "correctly",,, they must be replaced!" Just that statement alone turns most people off to spoonplugging,, it goes so contradictory to what the fishing "business" is "SELLING" If your into looking sexy on the water,,, spoonplugging is not for you! almost sounds like I'm trying to talk my way out,, hu? NOT! Well,,,, there sure has been a lot said already from guys that do much spoonplugging... but mostly good stuff. I particularly like the story of the guys catching 14 in a day. And did you note the question they asked??? Did they say "What color are you using""" or How big is your motor??? What kind of line do you use??? or Dose the lake turn over in the spring?? [;)] [;)] I could go on forever,,, about all the 1% meaningless junk!!!! that goes through the minds of the average muskie fishermen,,, what a mess,, things that have so little, to do with what it really takes to "FIND" and land a fish or,,, even a school. [;)] First off the word spoonplugging, 1st coined By Buck Perry back more than 50 years ago means "total knowledge of a fish and the water he swims in". Dose that mean that all spoonpluggers are egotistical know it alls??? Absolutely not! I have met Buck Perry and his wife Jeri, I'm very fortunate to have Terry O'Malley as a good friend. I've listened too,,, and fished with some of the old times like Vic Saunders and heard the stories of the early days like when the Lindners fished the Fox Chain and couldn't even catch a crappy, but came around to what Buck was doing and continue still today. I've met a couple of nutty spoonpluggers as well but as a whole the people that I've met have immense humility, despite there mostly unheard of successes. Did you know that the Minnesota state record tiger was caught by a spoonplugger a couple years back? Though many affiliate spoonplugging with trolling,,, it has absolutely nothing to with trolling, it has every thing to do with what ever it takes to catch a fish,,, whether it be "trolling" at 10+ mph or killing live bait, what ever it takes to,,, as Buck would say " to put him on the stringer". [:0] (that's another subject) Trolling at 10mph or killing live bait is a speed thing. Buck says and he's right,,, all fishing successes can be blamed on 2 things,,,, depth and speed, and I'll go out on a limb with my very, very limited experience and say to have success with the muskie that speed is not as crucial compared to the study fish, the lg. mouth bass. Though I continually check different speeds throughout the day the muskies just don't seem to be all that picky about speed, (just look at em,, there're built for speed) but check back in a few years,, I'm reserving the right to let the fish show me differently. So why do you see us going fast? (on Pewaukee) Because there taking it at that speed,, it's nothing to do with covering more water, if they were taking it at 3mph I'd go 3mph. Why the short rods? Because you won't see to many spoonpluggers running multiple rods,,, why? or using rod holders they will be holding there rod in there hands,,, have you ever tried clearing weeds,, shells,, or any other kinds of junk off your bait all day long with a long heavy rod vs. a lighter short rod? Jerry Borst Mchenry IL. Conducting demonstrations in MN. WI. IL. & KY and soon in MI and IN. | |||
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| Great posts, fellas. As Jerry said (and I forgot to say) - comes down to depth and speed mainly. All the other things are just extras. | |||
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