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| Message Subject: Girths | |||
Bigman |
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Posts: 281 Location: ROckford IL | Yeah I only got one 50 incher and she was 50.5 by 20, that was a legit girth measurement that will did with a soft tape, I do believe that some girths are just not real, people just want there fish to be bigger then it actually is, Brad gave good examples of what the girth should look like on a fish that has a 23+ girth on her, Tom Gelb had some fish he showed at the Madison meeting that were very girthy, even those were not over 26 I believe. | ||
| Larry Jones |
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| Most girths of muskies over 50 inches from the Niagara River have 20 to 23 inch girth.The Buffalo Harbor will be the same in June after spawn and in late October or early November,with 20 to 23 inch girth.But if the water temps get below 45 degrees early enough in November to pull in massive schools of gizzard shad that are 5 to 6 inches long and the big hawg muskies gourge on the shad,those girths move up to 24 to 27 inches and some have been as big as 29 inches.Its the genetics of riverine muskies that are capable of getting bigger,but they still need the forage base to get there.Great Lakes Muskies have the capability to reach massive girths if the conditions are all in place. | |||
| guest |
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| Larry, I'm a little confused. Please explain a little further. You said that "riverine muskies" are "capable of getting bigger." Does that mean that muskies that live in rivers are capable of getting bigger or "riverine" muskies muskies are capable of getting bigger? Is "riverine" a certain type of muskie??? Like say a "WI strain?" Don't all strains of muskies originate from rivers? Please clarify or help me understand. I am assuming that you meant muskies that live in rivers are capable of getting bigger? That's an interesting point. What about the muskies that live in Georgian Bay, Mille Lacs, Vermilion, Bemidji etc. It seems the girths of those fish will rival the girths of any "riverine" muskies. I am not educated on the issue or arguing but want to know more. Please enlighten me. Thanks. | |||
| 50inchGrinch |
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Posts: 221 | I still don't understand why some people defend liars. The fishing industry is so full of IT that it makes me sick. Apparently the biggest BSers deserve the clients because all the Pickeral Petes hang on their every word of 30" girths and 10+ fish days. Whatever, maybe I am insane and that's why it bugs me.... Darcy Cox Ps- The new story on that walleye is that guy measured the girth with his hands.... uhhh yeah. | ||
| Larry Jones |
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| Riverine Strain(Great Lakes Spotted Strain) | |||
| guest |
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| thank you | |||
| esoxaddict |
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Posts: 8772 | 50inchGrinch - 12/19/2009 4:41 PM I still don't understand why some people defend liars. The fishing industry is so full of IT that it makes me sick. Apparently the biggest BSers deserve the clients because all the Pickeral Petes hang on their every word of 30" girths and 10+ fish days. Whatever, maybe I am insane and that's why it bugs me.... Darcy Cox Ps- The new story on that walleye is that guy measured the girth with his hands.... uhhh yeah. Darcy... I don't think anybody is defending liars. We can all look at a fish, like the hybrid picture that's floating around out there that was claimed to be 45" and chuckle to ourselves, because it's probably not even 35". I agree that the guy probably didn't measure, and had no idea how big it really was. No experienced muskie angler would try to pass that fish off as 45". I think on some level it bugs ALL of us. A LOT of anglers are so full of crap it has turned their eyes brown. I used to fish with a guy like that. Had a low 40's fish up on dawg, raised it twice. We all agreed at the time it was maybe 42". By the end of the day it was pushing 45 and tried to eat but missed. A week later it was 47". The last time I heard him tell the story, it was "at least 48", and not only did he hook it on the 8, but he had the fish on twice and it threw the lure both times. I WAS THERE, I saw the #*#*. I saw the fish, I saw what happened, and he STILL stood there in front of me, claiming he hooked the fish twice, and added a good 6" to the length on top of it. Like it or not, muskie fishing is a lot of stories, and swipes and near misses, and big fish that just sort of take a sniff at a bait and go on their way never to be seen again. I think we've all seen so much BS we've grown immune to it, and don't even pay attention anymore. Perfect example -- the fish I posted a picture of earlier... Is it 45"? Nobody even questioned that fish, because to a lot of people out there who might have only fished a few times, or are in their first season or two or whatever? You tell them 45" and they just think "oh, ok. 45". Wow." The guys out there who know? I am sure people looked at that picture and said "that ain't 45". He's full of crap..." That fish was 40" on the nose. Camera angles and the way you hold a fish can play tricks on the mind. I've got fish that WERE 45" that look a whole lot smaller than the one in the picture does. There are also those who would look at a picture of a fish that WAS 45", and immediately reply and say "no way, that fish wasn't even 40! Look at how he is holding it, look at his hands, look at this or that..." Those are the same people posting pictures of 46-48" fish and calling them 51", posting pictures of a fish and saying it has a 28" girth... Hmph. 28", eh? I had a 28" girth back in high school. I've seen a few fish that could reasonably go that big, and some that you could look at and think "yeah, that fish could actually be over that!" When I see numbers tossed around that are in the 32" range? Yeah, okay, whatever. I have a challenge for everyone here. Take a flexible sewing tape, and find something that has a 26" girth. I don't give a crap what is is, just find something. Then find something that has a 28" girth. Or try this: Blow all the air out of your lungs. Meausre your chest. Take a huge breath. Meausre it again... It doesn't take a lot of thickness to make a few extra inches in girth, does it? The difference in how fat a 27" girth looks on a fish compared to a 28" girth? Nobody can tell from a picture. The only people who can look at a picture and say the girth wasn't what it was claimed to be are people who have caught enough really big fish with girths that didn't even come close, and know how rare and freakishly huge a fish with a 32" girth would have to be. | ||
| Larry Ramsell |
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Posts: 1290 Location: Hayward, Wisconsin | Guest: I'd like to expand a bit on Larry Jones "Riverine" defination: "Riverine" muskies are populations of muskies that have historically co-existed with northern pike. "Most" are spotted, but it isn't a "rule". Evironment often control coloration and in fact there can be multiple colorations within the same (most often large) waterbody with multiple environments and water colors in different sections (i.e. Eagle Lake runs from gin clear west to green clear middle, muddy while clay colored east to reddish southeast). "Lacustrine" muskies are natural populations of muskies that have always existed in the absence of pike, almost always in landlocked lakes or watersheds where pike never invaded (although some of these water systems now have pike in them and have "muddied" the water a bit, so to speak). Hope this helps clear things up a bit. | ||
| muskie-addict |
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Posts: 272 | sworrall - 12/17/2009 1:45 PM ...who really gives a hoot if a guy calls a 45" fish a 46? Are you serious, Steve? I just can't believe someone would say something like that. I'm sorry, but that's just terrible. Where does it stop? Is an inch of exaggeration OK, but two inches isn't? Is three....four.....the cutoff? Everything with fishing is on the honor system. Legal lengths of fish, bag limits, talking to your buddies, etc. And it's all honor, unless the warden or the WRMA, or whichever body of officials is keeping track of the true number. So, yeah, I guess I give a hoot if you catch a 52 incher up in Canada and call it a 56. -Eric | ||
| Slamr |
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Posts: 7037 Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | muskie-addict - 12/20/2009 6:08 PM sworrall - 12/17/2009 1:45 PM ...who really gives a hoot if a guy calls a 45" fish a 46? Are you serious, Steve? I just can't believe someone would say something like that. I'm sorry, but that's just terrible. Where does it stop? Is an inch of exaggeration OK, but two inches isn't? Is three....four.....the cutoff? Everything with fishing is on the honor system. Legal lengths of fish, bag limits, talking to your buddies, etc. And it's all honor, unless the warden or the WRMA, or whichever body of officials is keeping track of the true number. So, yeah, I guess I give a hoot if you catch a 52 incher up in Canada and call it a 56. -Eric OR, you COULD just enjoy your catches, and allow the successes, exaggerations, heartbreaks, and stories of accomplishment or failure of others be a positive and nothing more. Why does someone saying their fish is X or Y really impact YOU? If your fish are measured perfectly, then I say GREAT, you know that your fish are what you say your fish are. If someone measures or eyeballs something incorrectly, it is only a matter of them either being less skilled in measuring versus yourself, or they might be feeding some internal need of success. If your own accomplishments are somehow sullied by the exaggerations of others, maybe it's time to reassess the reasons you take to the water. Or maybe I just have bigger things to worry about. | ||
| lambeau |
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Why does someone saying their fish is X or Y really impact YOU?... ...If your own accomplishments are somehow sullied by the exaggerations of others, maybe it's time to reassess the reasons you take to the water. Or maybe I just have bigger things to worry about. part of the fun of catching big fish (for at least a significant number of people) is getting to SHARE that catch. you know that as well as anybody, Slamr, since this website lives and breathes by the fact that people are willing to do so. nothing drives site traffic more than pictures of big fish, and that's a fact...it shows how much people enjoy a little "showing off" as well as admiring the catches of others. so yes, when people lie about the size of the fish they caught when they post a picture, it does impact everyone else who looks at it, because by unfair comparison it diminishes the accomplishments of those who share their fish honestly. | |||
| Slamr |
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Posts: 7037 Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | lambeau - 12/20/2009 7:00 PM Why does someone saying their fish is X or Y really impact YOU?... ...If your own accomplishments are somehow sullied by the exaggerations of others, maybe it's time to reassess the reasons you take to the water. Or maybe I just have bigger things to worry about. part of the fun of catching big fish (for at least a significant number of people) is getting to SHARE that catch. you know that as well as anybody, Slamr, since this website lives and breathes by the fact that people are willing to do so. nothing drives site traffic more than pictures of big fish, and that's a fact...it shows how much people enjoy a little "showing off" as well as admiring the catches of others. so yes, when people lie about the size of the fish they caught when they post a picture, it does impact everyone else who looks at it, because by unfair comparison it diminishes the accomplishments of those who share their fish honestly. Or, one could look at it as enjoying your catches, and looking on the others with enjoyment. At some point it should be about having fun, no? Does someone stating their fish was bigger than yours make your fish smaller? If you know your fish was the size it was, and you KNOW that someone is exaggerating, can you not look at this and still appreciate the size of your own catch? Or maybe I live in my one-man utopia where I can appreciate the fish I catch without having to compare these fish to those of anyone else. | ||
| lambeau |
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| people are...people. and always will be. this means that to some degree we're all both noble and petty, humble and proud. it's fine to aspire to rise above such things, but it's not wrong to compare yourself to others, in fact that's an inherently normal thing to do. telling people they should "be happy with what they've got and move on" is in many ways telling them not to be human, because people constantly compare themselves to others. there's some very interesting research that shows people respond more strongly to whether or not they feel things are _fair_ than to whether or not it's _good_ for them. in fact, people will consistently give up something that benefits themselves in order to stop someone else from getting something better if the situation seems unfair. so yes, the sense that someone else is lying to increase their fishing success is something that most people will predictably resent because it seems unfair. when we do so we're just being human; but hey, keep dreaming Mr. Hythloday. | |||
| sworrall |
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Posts: 32880 Location: Rhinelander, Wisconsin | Eric, I didn't say it was 'OK', I asked who really cares...if someone calls a 45 a 46, it shouldn't ruin your entire day because of so many reasons, which could include an honest mistake or innocent 'bad guess'. In general, lambeau made the far 'right' point, and Slamr made the far 'left'. There's reality in both interpretations, and I fall somewhere in the middle because I have to. So from that perspective, yes, I was serious. It's my observation that some folks obsess so much over this that they become hypercritical, blasting and insulting some fish based on nothing more than their immediate reaction to the image, a reaction which usually is not very well thought out or considered for perspective, distance from the camera, etc. The hypercritical attitude alienates one from those of us who actually DO measure carefully and offer accurate girth and length measures yet get called out and insulted by the self appointed, self anointed Muskie Cops anyway, sort of like your post to me....it's that attitude to the extreme that marginalizes those who simply seek reasonable accuracy. That said, if someone maliciously and with 'bad' intent misstates the size of a fish, it's not a good thing. 'You'? Are you addressing me with your last statement? Far as I can remember, I've not yet caught a 52" fish in Canada, nor a 56". Smaller and larger than both, yes, but not either exactly. By the way, I don't measure my own fish and never have...ever, even all the way back into the early 80's when I had Barry Thiel do the honors on Pelican ..especially if the fish is truly exceptional. I allow someone else in the boat the pleasure and let them call the ball on tape in the past and now the bumpboard, so I never have to worry about 'revisionists' (a nice word for another that would not get past the foul language filter here) accusing me of anything. Most of the time I don't measure fish I've caught these days (just Sue's muskie if it's a possible personal best), I just stick 'em back in the puddle with an educated guess everyone in the boat is comfortable with, as do most of the folks I fish with. I ask the net man what he thinks, and go with something a bit smaller for good measure...or lack of one. | ||
| jlong |
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Posts: 1937 Location: Black Creek, WI | Scratch the thread I recently started. This one from 2009 is much better. | ||
| BNelson |
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Location: Contrarian Island | it was a classic!  | ||
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