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| Do believe there could also be a spring turnover? On a lake today and it seem there was alot of debris and floating moss everwhere? Could this be a result of a spring turnover? Just wondering. P.S. Sounds like a possible excuse for not seeing, or catching a fish. Al[:bigsmile:] |
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| You bet there is a spring turnover. Simply the reverse of the fall turnover. |
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| J, could you elaborate on that a little please? In the fall the turnover is the cooler upper layer of water sinking to the bottom. How can that be simply reversed? How does the thermocline develop in the spring? Does it start at the surface and slowly sink as more and more water is warmed? Thanks |
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| I have never heard of it before.
There is not the oxygen depleted layer present as there is in the summer stratification nor is there the sharply deliniated thermocline. I am curious as to what Jason is referring to, unless he is specifically talking about the occasional loss of the warm water cap which is forming?
My understanding of spring changes are the formation of a warm water cap which is fragile at first but then becomes several feet in depth and solidifying so to speak, above a cooler group of molecules in the depths of the basin.
My guess for Alan would be high water levels floating shore debris, and warm water which fires up the gas production cyles and may buoy up some stuff off the bottom. |
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| Hey J don’t waste your breath for me. I found this link on your website http://wow.nrri.umn.edu/wow/under/primer/page5.html
Thanks anyway |
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| Possibly what jlong was referring to is the tendency for spring waters to keep mixing with wind until a distict thermo barrier developes. Not quite the same concept as fall turnover, but it is mixing none the less. It helps to think of the fall turnover and the summer theromcline as a continuous process that gets interupted by ice-up. If not for ice-up, after fall turnover things would just continue to mix till it got hot enough for stratification to happen again. Happens in some waters that don't freeze, they just pass from one stage to the next - mixed/not mixed. |
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| There is no such thing as a "turn over" in the spring.
The lake water cools by convection (cooler water sinks) causing a lake to turn over.
Water warms by conduction (touch). no sinking no rising. |
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| jerryb, check out the link that NXTWRLDRCD posted above. It not only provides a definition for "spring turnover" but describes why and how it occurs and even has some nice graphics to illustrate the process. Spring turnover does occur. |
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| jerryb,
jlong is correct, there is a turnover in the spring, it is just not the classic thing we see in the fall. In the fall the lake has stratified and when it turns we get all that nasty water coming up and some strange things happening to the fishing. In the spring you have the same mixing of the water going on without all the problems from stratification. It really should be call "spring mixing" and probably not turnover. This same mixing is going on the whole time after fall turnover until the ice forms, yet in the spring it is somehow a "turnover". Not in the classic sense. Hope this helps. [:)] |
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| All right I'll give you that from 4c,(bottom water temp at ice out) to 0c, (surface water temp at ice out) a very minute turn over occurs,,, but it's so small and happens so quickly that's it's not even worth our time. No lasting inpact,,, in my opinion. [:bigsmile:]
It's nowhere near the kind of shock a lake (fish) goes through in the fall, and I still say that regardless of water density the fact remains that lake water warms by conduction (touch) and cools by convection.
If we are looking for excuses for not catching fish in the spring we must look elsewhere. Focusing all of our time on things that actual matter will put more fish in the net. |
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| Here we refer to that as when our wives(cousins) come out of hibernation to do some much needed house work before hot weather sets in + they spend the next 6 months in front of a floor fan watching tv eating Doritos + frozen dinners![:(] [:sun:] |
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| Sponge-- Up here it's the snowbirds returning with their brown wrinkled skin, complaining to all who will listen about how late a spring we're having. Tomorrow should frost their cookies. We had 90 degree weather earlier this week and the forcast is for 4 to 8 inches of Wisconsin's finest tomorrow. |
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