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Posts: 130
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Here is my basic understanding of the eight. Clearly this is oversimplified, but I am working with the space and artistic ability I have, lol. A few questions:
1) How far into the water column do you like to push your bait down?
2) When you accelerate, are you pushing it really quickly all the time or varied depending on day and fish?
3) I typically try to cast 45 degrees in front of the boat in the direction of travel, but sometimes the bait comes in at a funny angle and makes the transition into the 8 feel "weird," for lack of a better term. Have you experienced this? How did you deal with it, if so?
Finally, the one that has REALLY been bugging me:
4) I see a lot of people mix figure ovals in with the eight.
a) Why?
b) When do you decide to go oval? I mean as it pertains to a given day/conditions as well as during the eight itself, why you decide you need to transition to the oval if you have a follow.
Thanks! |
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Posts: 7058
Location: Northwest Chicago Burbs | I suck at muskie fishing so I always do a big oval. Fish seem to eat on the corners, easier to make bigger corners when making a circle versus 8s |
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Posts: 8800
| I'll often just do an L or maybe half an oval in clear water, when nothing's moving, or in conditions where I would have seen a fish coming if there was one there. As far as ovals vs. 8's, I generally reserve ovals for the fish that are too long to make the tight turns. Generally you have to look at the 8 in three dimensions. Those sweet spots, high and on the outside, is where I usually like to let the bait hang for a second. The reason for that is two fold: 1. It's the changes of speed and direction that seem to make them come unglued and decide to eat. So that's the likely point of contact. A brief pause (slow down - don't stop) where your lure is approaching the surface gives then an opportunity to eat it. 2. More importantly, that's the point where you are in the best position to set the hook with the fish facing and swimming away from you. If they eat when they're coming towards you, and your arms are already tucked in because the bait is closer to the boat, you just don't have the leverage. That's a weak hookset with the fish coming at you. You can still stick 'em, but they're also a lot more likely to head under the boat and out the other side once you do.
It's wanting to make the fish eat where you can get a good hookset and keep pressure on the fish once you have it hooked, and trying to avoid having it eat when you're not really in a position to do anything except try to set the hook and hope you can keep the fish pinned.
I hear a lot of guys say "it wasn't hooked good." Yeah. Sometimes they aren't. More often you didn't hook 'em good and/or you didn't keep them hooked good.
I'll add that sometimes, especially with the bigger fish, There ain't much you can do. They're going to go where they want and you're gonna pretend you have any control over where that is. |
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Posts: 2041
| lots of great discussions here on this topic back in the day - try searching figure 8 and/or figure eight...you can enjoy about 8 hours of reading material  |
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Posts: 1938
Location: Black Creek, WI | Learning the mechanics for executing an efficient Figure 8 is important. However, the most important part, in my opinion, is learning how to "read" the fish and adjust your Figure8 as needed based on the fish's reaction. What took decades for us older gents to learn through trial and error can now be learned by watching some of the incredible YouTube footage available. Watch how fish eat in the corner.... and pay closer attention to the fish in the moments before the strike while watching those videos. Then when the time comes for your to execute your own figure 8, experiment with speed, depth, etc. in an effort to get the fish jazzed up just like you saw in the videos you watched. Its all about getting them excited and them offering a timely target (usually on the outside corner) where they can see it. Good Luck! |
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Posts: 1469
Location: Brighton CO. | If you fish pressured water good boat side moves if its a 8 or oval or even a L at the boat can save the trip, fish hitting on the straight a way right in front of you, yup hang on the corners, yup, I've caught fish in 6" of water on the 8 when the wind blowing my boat up on the edge of a island and my rod tip was dragging in the gravel when the fish hit. A deep 8 or oval is best, one thing I like to do is go around and round and mesmerize the fish and pull back over it's head and it seems to eat every time. My biggest blunder I cast a jointed Shallow Raider up in a wind blown weed bed and was blinded by the sun brought my lure in did a figure 8 and hooked a fish and it got tangled in my rod tip, rolled my wrist and jabbed my rod down in the water up to my reel handle yelled at my partner to get the net and pulled rod straight up and netted the fish.
As it turns out I reeled my cable leader halfway thru my rod tip and the fish thrashed a one hook went thru the eye of my leader on the side thru the rod tip and was pinned there. It was a 33" muskie and if it was any bigger it would have broken my rod tip. I was more then lucky on that one. |
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Posts: 2353
Location: Chisholm, MN | I'd watch some youtube. Hard to explain without video. It's really all about time on the water and experimenting. Learning to read the fish is how you know to go deeper or shallower, fast or slow, longer or give up. It just takes practice and one day it will just click. Unfortunately fish in MN don't follow nearly as much as they used to, so practice times are few and far between. |
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| One factor is the lure you are using. I had a big fish lose interest on Eagle Lake last summer when due to my have too much line out, my bucktail stalled at the top of right hand turn in the figure 8. However, I have caught two fish using a Phantom soft tail by deliberately stopping/slowing in that spot for a second. The tail flutters, the lure starts to descend and the fish hit. I think the tail flutter is what triggers. |
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Posts: 73
| I mostly fish dirty water, so I haven't learned how to read fish. Also, I suck at fishing, but ...
1. Depends. It helps to move your bait vertically during the 8. Fish seem to like it a lot when you go from deep to shallow, almost to the point of pulling your bait out of the water. Also, I start the 8 deep to prevent fish from seeing the boat. No idea if it works.
2. For most of the 8, I try to maintain about the same speed as the retrieve because the fish must've liked it. During the hang, I go much slower.
3. If your bait's coming in at an awkward angle, you can sweep your rod far left/right when the bait's close-ish to the boat to get it to a better angle. This triggers fish.
4+: I don't do ovals, so no idea.
The best tip I can give is that if you can't see into the water well and you're confident that active fish are around, do at least two figure 8s every cast. I think some days, I'd catch more fish if I just drove around figure-8ing. |
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Posts: 8800
| Yep. #1 - Learn how to read the fish.
I HATED that advice for a good 10 years until I got the hang of it. Properly executed figure 8's aside, your job is to figure out what makes the "EAT THAT!!" light go on in their little brains. In the process, you're gonna hit a few with the rod tip. You're gonna scare a bunch of 'em away. You're gonna cause some to lose interest, and just plain take the lure away from others. But a musky's job is to eat stuff. Their prey's job is to avoid being eaten. When you see a fish following, you have to make that lure do whatever prey does when it's trying to escape, but poorly enough to fail at it.
Edited by esoxaddict 3/28/2025 3:51 PM
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Location: Athens, Ohio | "you're gonna hit a few with the rod tip" I thought that was just me! Trip to LOTW (which included the fine gentleman above^) I was doing an oval in green water when I smacked the following fish right upside of the head. Neither me nor the fish thought it funny at the time. m |
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Posts: 627
Location: S.W. WI | Most important things first.
Keep blade lures moving.
Wide turns-no sharp corners.
Mix speeds and depth. slower in corners.
Pauses on jerks or cranks.
More than likely, fsh had every chance to eat on the straight retrieve and chose not to. So you need to trigger them, offer them an easy opportunity or raise their interest with a chase.
Other details are dependent on situations, and what to do comes with experience.
Edited by Rudedog 3/29/2025 9:42 AM
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Posts: 1737
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | To directly answer your questions:
1. Usually 6 ft down (10 ft rod) at the boat, high on the outside to see, deep at the boat. I do 8’s not ovals.
2. As stated already, depends on the fish. Lazy fish I don’t go stupid fast unless nothing else is seeming to work. I speed up in the straights but it depends on the distance to the bait. Right on it- no such thing as too fast. Back two feet - see what she wants. I learned a lot about reading fish in a river system close to home before we had a major fish kill. I used to average 350-500 Muskies a year before the kill. See if you can find a populated spot to learn to read fish
3. Practice, and being able to figure 8 both ways. Depending on how many are in the boat, I will figure 8 the opposite direction so that I lead a fish away from the other person on the front deck with me. Position before the bait gets within 20 ft of the boat really helps. If you wait until the bait is at the rod tip, it is too late to make a smooth transition
4. I do 8’s with really long rods. The only benefit I see to ovals is if you have short rods or suck at figure 8’s. Make them as big as possible without compromising hook setting ability. Don’t hold the very end of the rod in one hand like you see online. How on earth would you set the hook like that. Power through when you’re tired as this is when this and other mistakes are typically made.
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Posts: 184
Location: Rochester, New York | What about if your fishing shallow 4ft or less seemed to me the rod tip in the water would scare the fish (pike and tigers) i have had fish follow lures up to the boat and spook as soon as i saw it |
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Posts: 1469
Location: Brighton CO. | For the most part they don't care about our rods as much as body movement. I've caught Muskies on eights in different bodies of water but on curtain bodies of water the fish can be more spooky. (back when Quincy Reservoir was kicking out muskies in the 1990's no one ever got one on the eight) also very boat shy. |
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Posts: 1737
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | If it is shallow, I still figure 8 as deep as I can without hitting the bottom. It is a feel thing, but I generally don’t have the boat in less than 4 ft anyway unless I’m in a river system. |
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Posts: 184
Location: Rochester, New York | RyanJoz - 3/30/2025 6:26 AM
If it is shallow, I still figure 8 as deep as I can without hitting the bottom. It is a feel thing, but I generally don’t have the boat in less than 4 ft anyway unless I’m in a river system.
I try to do it for pike or atleast have been trying to get in the habit of it
I have found it awkward to do especially with a booyah pikee spinnerbait and spoons
But then again i am usually in a smaller boat
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Posts: 184
Location: Rochester, New York | chuckski - 3/28/2025 9:51 AM
If you fish pressured water good boat side moves if its a 8 or oval or even a L at the boat can save the trip, fish hitting on the straight a way right in front of you, yup hang on the corners, yup, I've caught fish in 6" of water on the 8 when the wind blowing my boat up on the edge of a island and my rod tip was dragging in the gravel when the fish hit. A deep 8 or oval is best, one thing I like to do is go around and round and mesmerize the fish and pull back over it's head and it seems to eat every time. My biggest blunder I cast a jointed Shallow Raider up in a wind blown weed bed and was blinded by the sun brought my lure in did a figure 8 and hooked a fish and it got tangled in my rod tip, rolled my wrist and jabbed my rod down in the water up to my reel handle yelled at my partner to get the net and pulled rod straight up and netted the fish.
As it turns out I reeled my cable leader halfway thru my rod tip and the fish thrashed a one hook went thru the eye of my leader on the side thru the rod tip and was pinned there. It was a 33" muskie and if it was any bigger it would have broken my rod tip. I was more then lucky on that one.
If i am understanding this correctly you were using leader like one of the pre tied stealth tackle leaders with a swivel at the top and snap at the bottom
I always run a bead above my leaders so i dont reel up on accident if i am not paying attention
Also it is better that then to reel a leader up all the way because you will end up with tiny cracks in your rod guides and you will just end up fraying your line every time your cast out and reel in i have experience with this
Same thing can happen by hooking lures or anything in your rod guides |
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Posts: 570
Location: deephaven mn | you stated some times the baitis coming in at an akward angle. that actually a plus changing direction of a bait is what we are doing. simmulating a bait trying to elude the predator, practiice starting your figure eight at every different angle there is,
do a figure eight at end of every cast and it will become second nature. you should be able to do continous figure eights as you walk aroung your entire boat. practice practice |
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Posts: 184
Location: Rochester, New York | kap - 3/30/2025 8:59 AM
you stated some times the baitis coming in at an akward angle. that actually a plus changing direction of a bait is what we are doing. simmulating a bait trying to elude the predator, practiice starting your figure eight at every different angle there is,
do a figure eight at end of every cast and it will become second nature. you should be able to do continous figure eights as you walk aroung your entire boat. practice practice
Will try thank you |
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Posts: 1737
Location: Mt. Zion, IL | Muskie101
I try to do it for pike or atleast have been trying to get in the habit of it
I have found it awkward to do especially with a booyah pikee spinnerbait and spoons
But then again i am usually in a smaller boat
Most of the time I am in a 16 ft boat. I bought a 621 last year, but I haven’t musky fished out of it yet. It has lots of trips planned for this year. I have fished out of one on LSC several times, but it wasn’t mine. |
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Posts: 1469
Location: Brighton CO. | Muskie101 - 3/30/2025 6:49 AM
chuckski - 3/28/2025 9:51 AM
If you fish pressured water good boat side moves if its a 8 or oval or even a L at the boat can save the trip, fish hitting on the straight a way right in front of you, yup hang on the corners, yup, I've caught fish in 6" of water on the 8 when the wind blowing my boat up on the edge of a island and my rod tip was dragging in the gravel when the fish hit. A deep 8 or oval is best, one thing I like to do is go around and round and mesmerize the fish and pull back over it's head and it seems to eat every time. My biggest blunder I cast a jointed Shallow Raider up in a wind blown weed bed and was blinded by the sun brought my lure in did a figure 8 and hooked a fish and it got tangled in my rod tip, rolled my wrist and jabbed my rod down in the water up to my reel handle yelled at my partner to get the net and pulled rod straight up and netted the fish.
As it turns out I reeled my cable leader halfway thru my rod tip and the fish thrashed a one hook went thru the eye of my leader on the side thru the rod tip and was pinned there. It was a 33" muskie and if it was any bigger it would have broken my rod tip. I was more then lucky on that one.
If i am understanding this correctly you were using leader like one of the pre tied stealth tackle leaders with a swivel at the top and snap at the bottom
I always run a bead above my leaders so i dont reel up on accident if i am not paying attention
Also it is better that then to reel a leader up all the way because you will end up with tiny cracks in your rod guides and you will just end up fraying your line every time your cast out and reel in i have experience with this
Same thing can happen by hooking lures or anything in your rod guides
It was a Bucher steel cable leader like a dummy I reeled part of my leader thru the tip top and the fish put the tip of my hook right thru the eye of my leader and was pinned. when I fish after dark I put a glow bead to protect my tip top, A rare dumb move that happened 25 years ago. I got away with one very bad mistake. In the same post I mentioned I caught a muskie on a figure eight in six inches of water.
We were fishing off a little island and the wind was really blowing hard and I cast my weighted Burt out and had a good hit but missed him, so I throw back and got hit again and in the mean time the little row boat we got with the cabin blow up on the island we were casting off and we were dragging bottom in six inches of water well here comes the fish takes a swipe at my lure and misses so I'm doing a figure eight in six inches of water with my rod lip dragging on the bottom and the fish T bones my lure and we got em. How my lure didn't get snagged on the bottom is beyond me. At the same time my nephew got two Muskies on his first two casts on the next lake over fishing with my dad (his grandpa) |
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Posts: 184
Location: Rochester, New York | chuckski - 3/30/2025 11:24 AM
Muskie101 - 3/30/2025 6:49 AM
chuckski - 3/28/2025 9:51 AM
If you fish pressured water good boat side moves if its a 8 or oval or even a L at the boat can save the trip, fish hitting on the straight a way right in front of you, yup hang on the corners, yup, I've caught fish in 6" of water on the 8 when the wind blowing my boat up on the edge of a island and my rod tip was dragging in the gravel when the fish hit. A deep 8 or oval is best, one thing I like to do is go around and round and mesmerize the fish and pull back over it's head and it seems to eat every time. My biggest blunder I cast a jointed Shallow Raider up in a wind blown weed bed and was blinded by the sun brought my lure in did a figure 8 and hooked a fish and it got tangled in my rod tip, rolled my wrist and jabbed my rod down in the water up to my reel handle yelled at my partner to get the net and pulled rod straight up and netted the fish.
As it turns out I reeled my cable leader halfway thru my rod tip and the fish thrashed a one hook went thru the eye of my leader on the side thru the rod tip and was pinned there. It was a 33" muskie and if it was any bigger it would have broken my rod tip. I was more then lucky on that one.
If i am understanding this correctly you were using leader like one of the pre tied stealth tackle leaders with a swivel at the top and snap at the bottom
I always run a bead above my leaders so i dont reel up on accident if i am not paying attention
Also it is better that then to reel a leader up all the way because you will end up with tiny cracks in your rod guides and you will just end up fraying your line every time your cast out and reel in i have experience with this
Same thing can happen by hooking lures or anything in your rod guides
It was a Bucher steel cable leader like a dummy I reeled part of my leader thru the tip top and the fish put the tip of my hook right thru the eye of my leader and was pinned. when I fish after dark I put a glow bead to protect my tip top, A rare dumb move that happened 25 years ago. I got away with one very bad mistake. In the same post I mentioned I caught a muskie on a figure eight in six inches of water.
We were fishing off a little island and the wind was really blowing hard and I cast my weighted Burt out and had a good hit but missed him, so I throw back and got hit again and in the mean time the little row boat we got with the cabin blow up on the island we were casting off and we were dragging bottom in six inches of water well here comes the fish takes a swipe at my lure and misses so I'm doing a figure eight in six inches of water with my rod lip dragging on the bottom and the fish T bones my lure and we got em. How my lure didn't get snagged on the bottom is beyond me. At the same time my nephew got two Muskies on his first two casts on the next lake over fishing with my dad (his grandpa )
Wow sounds like something got those fish biting 2 muskies 2 casts in a row might be record |
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